2017 Skate Canada Challenge

[4everchan]

well i think quebec is known for training pairs... but i don't know really.. i think the whole worlds is short of pairs...

just watched most of the boys... bennet still has all my love i think he was scored a bit harshly... of course negative GOE on all jumps but at least he tried them... I don't know.. was just looking at Edrian's ISU bio... ermm he is 177cm... and he could grow a bit more considering his age... that's huge... i checked because i thought he was quite tall when i "bumped" into him at ACI compared to let's say Misha or the Mexican nice guy... but yeah... considering Nicolas is super tall too... are we going to witness a skating tall revolution??? HAHA

i am done now... will try to watch some more tomorrow.

I skipped junior pairs... shame on me... As I said before, I cannot get invested in juniors anymore... too disappointing when they split or retire or get injured or grow too much...

Trennt Michaud will also be in the mix. He's got 1.5 seasons of junior eligibility left.

What's up with pairs programs in other provinces? I'm seeing a lot of entries from Quebec, some from Ontario, one from BC/YK, and two from AB/NWT/NT (one WD). Are we having a pairs shortage in Canada?

 

[Mango]

well i think quebec is known for training pairs... but i don't know really.. i think the whole worlds is short of pairs...

just watched most of the boys... bennet still has all my love i think he was scored a bit harshly... of course negative GOE on all jumps but at least he tried them... I don't know.. was just looking at Edrian's ISU bio... ermm he is 177cm... and he could grow a bit more considering his age... that's huge... i checked because i thought he was quite tall when i "bumped" into him at ACI compared to let's say Misha or the Mexican nice guy... but yeah... considering Nicolas is super tall too... are we going to witness a skating tall revolution??? HAHA

i am done now... will try to watch some more tomorrow.

I skipped junior pairs... shame on me... As I said before, I cannot get invested in juniors anymore... too disappointing when they split or retire or get injured or grow too much...

You can watch the podium for junior pairs.

I like Bennet's shiny shirt.

We are definitely headed towards taller men in singles. Roman's 180 cm, Nic 183 cm, Nam 175 cm. Bring on the big jumps.

 

[4everchan]

lord... that's scary... if they are all that tall.. i mean.. i thought it was better to be shorter to rotate the jumps... sure they will be high.. but they may be triples mind you nic seems fine with his quads it also means more weight on the joints... ugh... the little chiddies' time seems behind us... kids are growing fast.

You can watch the podium for junior pairs.

I like Bennet's shiny shirt.

We are definitely headed towards taller men in singles. Roman's 180 cm, Nic 183 cm, Nam 175 cm. Bring on the big jumps.

 

[nadster]

His 3A is just killing him. From the protocol it looks like he popped it into a single. I was a bit preoccupied with junior pairs and novice ice dance and seeing some of the men do so poorly I didn't stick around to watch.

Do you know if Phan has a 3A?

Phan has never landed a 3A in competition before but he has rotated and fell on them in previous competitions.

This time he only did a 2A but fully rotated and fell on a 4T.

Now to get him to land these jumps on one foot. He is getting the rotation on them at least right now.

 

[nadster]

Junior pairs...

Walsh/Michaud look a bit better than we last saw them in Dresden. The twist is still crashy and those death spirals still need work, but everything else looks more coherent. I think they've slightly changed the music. Matte/Ferland are firmly in the top 2 right now. I can seem these two teams being sent to Junior Worlds. The Boys-Eddy siblings look alright. Got a level 4 on the triple twist. I wish they would start doing triple throws and triple SBS jumps. I hope they're working on it.

For me, I was disappointed for Brasseur/Ostiguy. They keep doing the throw 3Lz and I don't think they've landed it even once this season. They lose a lot of points in doing that. The dismount from the lift was iffy as well. They messed up this lift in sectionals if I recall correctly. They'll likely move up to 3rd tomorrow. But I'm not quite understanding what Bruno and Richard are doing with them. They need a triple twist. They need a triple throw they can land. They should ideally be working on SBS triple jumps for the SP. They do a 3T+2T+2T in the FS so I'll just be quiet and look forward to that. :shock2:


.

The problem with the Boys/Eddy siblings is that she can't jump at all. She often struggles to even rotate a double flip. And obviously those issues will relate to the throws as well. They always had a great twist though.

Brasseur/Ostiguy can do throw triple loop and salchow but this year the teams must do toe , lutz or flip in the SP. The base value for throw 3T is too low in my opinion. It has the same base value as throw 3S and many pairs can do a throw triple loop but struggle with throw 3T. The use of a toe pick always makes the throw harder.

Right now Ostiguy is clearly a placeholder until they find a suitable partner for Brasseur. She is obviously focusing more on singles as she won the Quebec sectional competition and has added a loop to her singles. The coaches know her destiny is pairs though. The problem is that she can't advance any more in pairs with Ostiguy as a partner as he is simply not strong enough for her. Hopefully they will find a suitable partner soon.

 

[nadster]

I have an idea. Send the novice ice dancers to Lake Placid in the summer ( US rules are much more in line with the Canadian ones ) The US CDs are the blues and Viennese waltz which is much more in line with our laws. Besides with all the US teams there, they are guaranteed a high quality field. Their FD also requires the non-touching step sequence like ours as well.

Send the pre-novices to the advanced novice events.

It just sounds weird to send out a novice pair internationally to do the European waltz. ( Which is the law for ISU advanced novice )

 

[syl20c]

The Georges-Ethier competition is essentially a subsectional for the pre-novice , novice and junior ladies. Only the junior ladies compete in 1 group there. The pre-novice and novice ladies are separated into several groups and the top 96 pre-novice, top 40 novice and top 24 junior go on to sectionals. The pre-novice and novice qualify on their TES.

As far as US competitions go , Quebec sends lots of juniors and seniors to US competitions. Not so much for pre-novice ( intermediate in US ) / novice competitions since the US rules are very different from the Canadian ones. There are some Quebec pre-novs and novice there but far less than the juniors and seniors.

The US intermediate programs ( both SP and FS ) are shorter in length ( 2:00 SP and 2:30 LP for the US vs 2:30SP and 3:00LP in Canada ) than the Canadian pre-novice ones. As well while one can have 2 double axels in the SP in Canada , you can't do that in the US. The step sequence is levelled in Canada ( up to level 3 ) but is only a choreographic step in the US. Also US intermediates can only do 2 spins in the FS but Canadian pre-novice can do 3 spins.

In the US intermediate and novice competition, a 3 jump-combo is allowed in the FS. That is not allowed in Canada.

The US novices only get 6 jump passes while the Canadian ones get 7 ( provided one pass is 2A or highter ).

Sending novices to US in singles is somewhat doable. The differences between pre-novice in Canada and the intermediate equivalent in the US are too great.

Ontario skaters used to attend Georges Ethier. Quebec put an end to that "invitational" as the competition was getting too long. Hopefully the Summer Series will not only be kept but enhanced to encourage cross section competition. The competitors need it.

Very few US Novice skaters attend our summer comps. Changing a Novice program around for a US competition shouldn't be too difficult, certainly worth the effort IMO. That's invaluable experience.

 

[TGee]

I have an idea. Send the novice ice dancers to Lake Placid in the summer ( US rules are much more in line with the Canadian ones ) The US CDs are the blues and Viennese waltz which is much more in line with our laws. Besides with all the US teams there, they are guaranteed a high quality field. Their FD also requires the non-touching step sequence like ours as well.

Send the pre-novices to the advanced novice events.

It just sounds weird to send out a novice pair internationally to do the European waltz. ( Which is the law for ISU advanced novice )

Perhaps it's a mis-recollection, but don't some of the teams in the region go on their own funding....?

They would need SC accreditation....but even so teams from outside QC, EO and CO need that experience.

 

[nadster]

Perhaps it's a mis-recollection, but don't some of the teams in the region go on their own funding....?

They would need SC accreditation....but even so teams from outside QC, EO and CO need that experience.

Lots of Canadian senior and junior ice dance teams compete at Lake Placid already.

But I checked the results of the last novice ice dance at Lake Placid and not one Canadian dance team competed there.

One thing is that novices and pre-novices ( in all disciplines ) can't count US results in the summer series results. The Juniors and seniors can use US results.

Our novices could use the Lake Placid experience ( and the rules aren't crazy different like international novice is )

 

[nadster]

Bausback nailed her 3Z-3T and 3R and scored 57.87

Olivia Gran 3Z-2T 3R 2A 54.81

Already 4 scores 50 +. The best Canadian junior ladies competition ever so far.

Aurora Cotop currently in 2nd place 3T-3T 3R ( fall ) 2A . Has the it factor and would be leading if she landed the loop.

36 skaters have skated with 18 to go and 6 skaters have broken 50 in the short and still some good quality in the final 18.

 

[TGee]

Does anyone have the link to the master page that gives the folders for the various videos on dailymotion for Challenge? I had it Wednesday evening, but can't locate it now.

Dailymotion's search engine can't seem to deal with the amount of front end standard info on the front of the file names. A search for novice men, for example, will bring up anything but. So we need the master page to locate the folders. Sometimes searching on the name of someone a podium will get you there....

 

[TGee]

Eventually found the Novice Mens's videos, but all the one I've tried have a long Cadbury commercial....and then get stuck...

Did want to respond to Mango's observation about no records in this event. ...

One concern that I have is that records below the senior level are often set by the occasional high BV prodigy. They zip through the levels, and leave records behind. They don't necessarily become the strongest elite senior skaters, although they definitely bear watching. Nam is a good example of the risks and challenges of focusing too much on the prodigies.

But there are others with different strengths that are also promising.

And boys are in such a different competitive context. It's really hard to see how they are doing unless you track their history. Depending on the section, skaters may be pushed ahead in order to get strength on strength competition, especially when their are few other men. So we see some that have been section or Skate Ontario medallists, who come in with quite low scores the first season when they move up a level, but it would not do to hold them back. And these may have great future promise.

 

[ice coverage]

Does anyone have the link to the master page that gives the folders for the various videos on dailymotion for Challenge? I had it Wednesday evening, but can't locate it now.

Dailymotion's search engine can't seem to deal with the amount of front end standard info on the front of the file names. A search for novice men, for example, will bring up anything but. So we need the master page to locate the folders. Sometimes searching on the name of someone a podium will get you there....

In case helpful, although not clear to me whether the DM playlists are what you meant:

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlists/user/skatecanada/1​

And BTW, the YT playlist for 2017 Skate Canada Challenge:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxqrI2KKF957UYNjL_mMrVq8fZ_8OKVke​

Good luck to Liam :luv17: in the free skate :yay:.

 

[TGee]

In case helpful, although not clear to me whether the DM playlists are what you meant:

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlists/user/skatecanada/1​

And BTW, the YT playlist for 2017 Skate Canada Challenge:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxqrI2KKF957UYNjL_mMrVq8fZ_8OKVke​

Good luck to Liam :luv17: in the free skate :yay:.

Thanks, dailymotion playlists helpful but not up to date. e.g. Only have 2of 6 Novice men groups listed, but all 6 are posted...if only offering up the Cadbury ad...

 

[Mango]

TGee I think you and I can agree that Stephen is more than just a high BV. His results in Canada and internationally were both on the high end. What I meant to say about the novice boys is that they aren't doing harder triples. I'd like to see that change. Just as the novice girls have started to go for the triples seriously (maybe due to the bonus) the guys should start going for the 3Lz, 3F, 3Lo. They'll have an easier time in juniors if they've been working on them since novice, no?

Last group of junior ice dance is on. Some of the best juniors in Canada. Alicia and Claudio just went. They've changed their last lift that went awry in Dresden. Love their flow and speed across the ice.

 

[Mango]

So thoughts on Lajoie/Lagha? Will be going to JW. Do you feel them this season?

 

[Mango]

62.66 for L/L
Patrice Lauzon is happy
The banner behind the kiss and cry is down

No one in Canada is gonna come close them now eh?

 

[olayolay]

Lagha/Lajoie are great. Gorgeous, smooth skating with deep edges. She's lovely and he's got plenty of personality to spare. They sort of remind me of a young V/M in that way.

(Lagha seems a little pale? Someone get that kid some Vitamin D.)

I can't believe Alicia Fabbri is only 13. I don't know how far this partnership is going to go given their lack of size difference, but her interpretation of music is so mature and beyond her years.

 

[Mango]

I feel the same way about Alicia olayolay. I remembered now that there was a French ice dance fan who left a derogatory comment on one of their JGP Sarasnk videos because they placed ahead of the French ice dancers. Such a polite bunch those guys are.

Here is Emily Buasback's SP featuring the 3Lz-3T: http://dai.ly/x548b6b?start=321

This is the most comfortable I've seen her look with this SP all season. I wonder if skating early helped.

 

[TGee]

TGee I think you and I can agree that Stephen is more than just a high BV. His results in Canada and internationally were both on the high end. What I meant to say about the novice boys is that they aren't doing harder triples. I'd like to see that change. Just as the novice girls have started to go for the triples seriously (maybe due to the bonus) the guys should start going for the 3Lz, 3F, 3Lo. They'll have an easier time in juniors if they've been working on them since novice, no?

Last group of junior ice dance is on. Some of the best juniors in Canada. Alicia and Claudio just went. They've changed their last lift that went awry in Dresden. Love their flow and speed across the ice.

Agreed that Stephen Gogolev is exceptional....in so very many ways, but would argue that young male skaters shouldn't in general be pushed to keep up with the females..

I don't think we should compare the novice men and women. We need to think about biological age rather than calendar age in terms of when the triples come in. Girls develop earlier on average, and the Skate Canada lifetime athlete develops model reflects that. You will see a one to two year difference on the benchmark entry and exit ages for the various stages in the LATD.

Skate Canada is aware that we need to push the specialized technical skills earlier in our female skaters. The LATD document is fairly strong worded in this point. Too many girls are not getting triples before peak growth, so the incentives are a strategic intervention to change the emphasis in training young female skaters to ensure the tech is trained before the window is lost. And also to look to late developing girls who have more potential to achieve higher technical skills, but can be pushed out by early developers who have more coordination, balance and presentation at a young age.

Boys have more time to get the tech before peak growth and puberty. And there are other things such as later development of the inner ear on average that impact the trajectory of development for balance, spins and rotations. Lastly, the harder triples and quads, in most cases require upper body development that comes much, much later in men....

But the ISU age breaks for juniors are the same for both genders in singles. It's a reason for skaters like Roman Sadowsky spend a long time as a junior, when they haven't had their peak growth until well after they could have qualified by age as a senior. The alternative is to press ahead early, and experience a setback like Nam's....