2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Ladies FS

[Alchamei]

First of all, I already said that I appreciated labgoat's apology.

I am all for celebrating skaters. I do not see any reason to "poke" fun at Asian-American skaters in the first place.

The so-called "joke" was just not funny.
If you had Asian-American family members who lost their freedom, their homes and other property, their livelihoods, and their life savings because the U.S. government did not consider them to be "real" Americans, then perhaps you would not be so insensitive.

This reminds me of the Ellen DeGeneress situation when she posted a picture of herself on Usain Bolt's back and some people saw it a symbol of slavery.

I'm not saying these lives lost during ww2 were not imporant, it was horrible for everyone, but this doesn't seem like general thing to not make fun of. I have never heard of this thing like something to be silent. Believe me, in Europe I know there are actually things that are rather not mentioned, for example Germans don't tend to name their sons Adolf.

If some people can be very nitpicky, they can find symbolism everywhere, just in the DeGeneress photo. and as I have written before, everyone knows that the poster meant Asian Americans competing at this Nats and pointed out that they tend to be very successful in their sport. Or Maybe if she said Asian American invasion it would be better? I know these blank-American are widely used.

 

[ice coverage]

Mervin Tran is Canadian, born in Canada. Even if you insist on hyphenating him forever, no part of him is Chinese.

According to Wikipedia "Tran was born in Regina, Saskatchewan. He moved to Montreal, Quebec in 2007 to train with Richard Gauthier. His parents were refugees from Vietnam and Cambodia.". I knew his parents were from Vietnam, but didn't know about Cambodia.

We were discussing Karen Chen and the Shibutanis, who are Asian-American.
The discussion had no specificity to Chinese-Americans, and AFAIK, whatif was not implying that Mervin has Chinese blood.

 

[ice coverage]

... Or Maybe if she said Asian American invasion it would be better? ...

Of course it would not be better. As I have explained above, the word "invasion" in this context is part of what was offensive.

labgoat has apologized, and I appreciate the apology. So I will leave it there.

 

[jenaj]

As much as I love Mirai, I don't know if she can plausibly place in the top 10 at Worlds given her record for URs. There are a lot more skaters in the mix this year than there were last year: All 3 Russians (Sotskova is the weakest) + 3 Japanese (Mihara is the weakest) + Osmond and Daleman + Kostner. We need to keep 3 spots for Pyeongchang.

Ashley and Gracie, skating at their best, can place on the podium even when the field is that packed. They have the international track record/ components necessary. Karen's too new. Mariah Bell is too iffy under pressure. Mirai gets called on her URs too much and didn't do a very good long program at Nationals. I think it makes sense, totally apart from the business reasons that might drive USFS w/r/t Gracie, to give Gracie as many chances as possible to show what she's capable of.

And Gracie can, given her recent performances? If Gracie had the ability to skate well currently, wouldn't she have done it tonight? I personally think the World team should be Karen, Ashley and Mariah. I would make Mirai first alternate. I have no reason to believe that putting Gracie on the team would make it more likely the US would earn three spots.

 

[NanaPat]

so what is your point?

That you implied he's Chinese. And that he's not. And that talking about race so enthusiastically is just a bit ... racist?

 

[kalee]

As much as I love Mirai, I don't know if she can plausibly place in the top 10 at Worlds given her record for URs. There are a lot more skaters in the mix this year than there were last year: All 3 Russians (Sotskova is the weakest) + 3 Japanese (Mihara is the weakest) + Osmond and Daleman + Kostner. We need to keep 3 spots for Pyeongchang.

Ashley and Gracie, skating at their best, can place on the podium even when the field is that packed. They have the international track record/ components necessary. Karen's too new. Mariah Bell is too iffy under pressure. Mirai gets called on her URs too much and didn't do a very good long program at Nationals. I think it makes sense, totally apart from the business reasons that might drive USFS w/r/t Gracie, to give Gracie as many chances as possible to show what she's capable of.

It's also possible for Gracie to end up out of the top 15 if she bombs the way she did today. Internationally she wouldn't be able to break 170 points with such a skate, which means she would likely be buried not just by the Russians, Japanese, Canadians and Kostner, but also by Elizabet Tursynbaeva, Laurine Lecavalier, Li Zijun and Park So Youn. If Karen skates as well at Worlds as she did here, she can hold her own against that quartet. A clean Mirai or Mariah should be competitive with Wakaba & Mai. Plus, what message would it send to Gracie to bump her into the World's team after such a skate? Likely to backfire by making her more complacent, rather than lighting a fire under her butt to fight for her spot again next year.

 

[whatif]

That you implied he's Chinese. And that he's not. And that talking about race so enthusiastically is just a bit ... racist?

You have reading comprehension problem. When did I imply that?

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Congrats to all the medalists especially Karen! First time National Champion! That is HUGE! Great job by Ashley (I thought she was going to win it!) and Mariah too! Mirai struggled but fought for the jumps. Still has to work on her nerves and those URs! LOVE her though and I hope she at least gets named to 4CCs! I also hope she tries the 3A there! I'm very sad for Gracie. She (like Mirai!) has got to get her mojo back. I don't think she should be named to the Worlds team. I fear a meltdown ala Nancy Kerrigan circa '93 Worlds. And I'm unsure how the judges will score Karen even if she hits. Hopefully she and Ashley (I think Karen will be named to the team) can get those 3 spots for the U.S. next year at the Olympics and maybe Mariah will hit it out of the park too!

 

[NanaPat]

We were discussing Karen Chen and the Shibutanis, who are Asian-American.
The discussion had no specificity to Chinese-Americans, and AFAIK, whatif was not implying that Mervin has Chinese blood.

Well, Mervin is not Asian-American either. He's Canadian. And Canadians don't generally hyphenate. A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian, whether native-born or naturalized.

And Whatif did say "and then there's Merin Tran" in reply to a remark about someone who was half Chinese.

 

[frida80]

I just realized this is the first time since 2012 that either Gracie or Ashley didn't win nationals! Feels kinda refreshing.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

Just catching up, has the world team been chosen? Is it the top 3?

 

[da96103]

Just catching up, has the world team been chosen? Is it the top 3?

I think we will need to wait for the men to finish first before they make the announcement for the whole team.

 

[geige]

I think we will need to wait for the men to finish first before they make the announcement for the whole team.

Not necessarily, they've already announced the ice dance teams.

 

[da96103]

Not necessarily, they've already announced the ice dance teams.

Really? That's does not sound very team-like.

 

[FlattFan]

If you want to see zombie skating, just watch Gracie. It's dead woman skating. They really held her up. She should be 20 points lower than Caroline Zhang.

Karen underrotated that 3Toe combo, but everything else is first rate. Love the second triple lutz.
Ashley underrotated her 3Toe combo, underrotated her 3sal combo, and the 3lutz combo. But deserved 2nd. Kinda over that theatric over the top look, but if that's what international judges like,then it is what it is.
Mariah gave a good fight after 2 mistakes, but combine with the mistakes in the SP, i think she's in the same boat as Mirai.
Mirai also didn't give up like in the past. however, those jumps were not good. I think they need to test these two again before world.
Tessa, what a mess!
I think Caroline was robbed. Should have been third based on how she did in both phases.

 

[stella luna]

I've not seen anything. I would hope it would be 1, 2, and 3.

After all, they could send Gracie, the way others on this forum have suggested, and we could still end up with only two spots, based on Gracie's record this season.

Or we could take a chance on the "newbies" while playing fair as a wayside.

Just catching up, has the world team been chosen? Is it the top 3?

 

[KatGrace1925]

Just finished the free skate. I had a ton of stuff to do today so I missed the live broadcast and watched prime time here on the west coast which was not so fun. I prefer getting live results.

I'm really liking the change up on the Podium, it is refreshing. It's time for other girls to step up and Karen delivered! I have loved Karen since I first saw her skate, so this moment was wonderful! It also took the bite out of what happened with Gracie for me. I would love it if Karen built on this at four continents and worlds, she's a little dinamo! Plus Miriah's rally after her beginning stumbles was awesome, I love how she just doesn't let it phase her and she is such a good performer, she just lights up the rink. She's got the makeup to go far!

I am very sad about Gracie, but missing worlds I think is for the best. She needs to work stuff out and come back roaring next season.

Ashley seemed tense through this championships. Going into worlds as a sort of underdog yet again is good for her. I want to see her reach the same heights she did last year, she is capable!

I thought for a moment Mirai would win. It would have been a dream win for her, it was easy to see her nerves but watching her made me want to cry with her. I hope she doesn't let it get her down she's got the ability to be up with the rest of the girls.

Caroline! What a wonderful technically brilliant skate! I am so pleased for her!

All in all I think the US ladies do not look so great going into worlds but I believe Raf will have Ashley and Miriah ready for worlds and with Karen winning it should boost her PCS scores internationally. I think the US should send the top three, they are clearly the ones best equipped to handle it. So we could get three spots theoretically, but it is going to take some work between now and then.

 

[stella luna]

Yes, I too felt bad for Caroline.

If you want to see zombie skating, just watch Gracie. It's dead woman skating. They really held her up. She should be 20 points lower than Caroline Zhang.

Karen underrotated that 3Toe combo, but everything else is first rate. Love the second triple lutz.
Ashley underrotated her 3Toe combo, underrotated her 3sal combo, and the 3lutz combo. But deserved 2nd. Kinda over that theatric over the top look, but if that's what international judges like,then it is what it is.
Mariah gave a good fight after 2 mistakes, but combine with the mistakes in the SP, i think she's in the same boat as Mirai.
Mirai also didn't give up like in the past. however, those jumps were not good. I think they need to test these two again before world.
Tessa, what a mess!
I think Caroline was robbed. Should have been third based on how she did in both phases.

 

[evasorange]

I was there tonight! Ashley was STUNNING, such a beautiful emotional program. Karen was great, really happy for her that she was able to put two successful programs together but she just is missing a bit of that performance spark imo. And Mariah is just sooo cute she reminds me of a young Debbie Reynolds. Really excited to watch her grow and mature as a skater! Gracie...wow oh wow was her performance lifeless and hard to watch. And I've just read her press conference interview where she stated she thinks"she's still pretty much one of the best skaters in the US and the world".......girl no. Now I really really believe she should be left off worlds, if she thinks she's one of the best in the world with the season she's had

 

[stella luna]

I'm so happy for your optimism!

Gracie, I must say, should not be without hope.

Just finished the free skate. I had a ton of stuff to do today so I missed the live broadcast and watched prime time here on the west coast which was not so fun. I prefer getting live results.

I'm really liking the change up on the Podium, it is refreshing. It's time for other girls to step up and Karen delivered! I have loved Karen since I first saw her skate, so this moment was wonderful! It also took the bite out of what happened with Gracie for me. I would love it if Karen built on this at four continents and worlds, she's a little dinamo! Plus Miriah's rally after her beginning stumbles was awesome, I love how she just doesn't let it phase her and she is such a good performer, she just lights up the rink. She's got the makeup to go far!

I am very sad about Gracie, but missing worlds I think is for the best. She needs to work stuff out and come back roaring next season.

Ashley seemed tense through this championships. Going into worlds as a sort of underdog yet again is good for her. I want to see her reach the same heights she did last year, she is capable!

I thought for a moment Mirai would win. It would have been a dream win for her, it was easy to see her nerves but watching her made me want to cry with her. I hope she doesn't let it get her down she's got the ability to be up with the rest of the girls.

Caroline! What a wonderful technically brilliant skate! I am so pleased for her!

All in all I think the US ladies do not look so great going into worlds but I believe Raf will have Ashley and Miriah ready for worlds and with Karen winning it should boost her PCS scores internationally. I think the US should send the top three, they are clearly the ones best equipped to handle it. So we could get three spots theoretically, but it is going to take some work between now and then.