2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Men FS

[zschultz1986]

The USFA and its criteria to select world and 4cc team is certainly different and right or wrong very based on getting more spots. You can easily rationalize things or argue things so that Brown should go, Zhou should go or heck look how they bumped up Aaron.

Brown will always do fairly well because he has great style, skating skills (PCS) Aaron as a jumper is sadly duplicitous and not as good as Chen of course or Zhou. I think Chen by the way could win olympics pending what Hanyu does. He has more quads than Boyang and Fernandez who is still prone and Chan doesn't have a chance with his inonsistency - though I could watch him just glide on the ice - the scoring system now does not give Chan and Brown really enough room to get scores that maybe they deserve.

I think you have Chen and Brown as I always said as your safe bets and the third spot open but if Zhou starts getting consistent then Aaron, Rippon, Abbott, Rabbit,Dolensky, Minor et al can say farewell. My guess is nats may have sealed the deal hat Abbott won't return. He can see the quad issue. I think it is very brave of Patrick Chan and Jason Brown to stick around. I think because Jason is younger and is really well liked there is more hope. But Hanyu really has it all and wants it all - he Hanyu the king of kings really has the advantage over Chen still because of pcs. Who would ever think 5 quads in a program would be possible. I do think this is exciting and maybe a bit sad for skating. Jumps can do it all!

I would agree all of this EXCEPT the part about Chan. Did you see his Free Skate at Canadian Nats? Chan did 2 Quads in the Free AND two 3 Axels (something he's eschewed for a good portion of his career.) While the just may be a bit less consistent than Fernandez, Chen, and Hanyu, the programs and the PCS are still RIGHT up there. In my opinion, his PCS if he goes clean should be above ALL others, including Hanyu. Don't sleep on Patrick.

The USFSA picked Jason knowing that if he is 100%, he's a sure bet to get in the top 10, and with Nathan, the shot to bring back three spots for next year is pretty secure. Vincent will get 2 spots in the Grand Prix for sure, and good showings there will definitely help him on the senior level.

 

[Skater Boy]

I would agree all of this EXCEPT the part about Chan. Did you see his Free Skate at Canadian Nats? Chan did 2 Quads in the Free AND two 3 Axels (something he's eschewed for a good portion of his career.) While the just may be a bit less consistent than Fernandez, Chen, and Hanyu, the programs and the PCS are still RIGHT up there. In my opinion, his PCS if he goes clean should be above ALL others, including Hanyu. Don't sleep on Patrick.

The USFSA picked Jason knowing that if he is 100%, he's a sure bet to get in the top 10, and with Nathan, the shot to bring back three spots for next year is pretty secure. Vincent will get 2 spots in the Grand Prix for sure, and good showings there will definitely help him on the senior level.

I totally agree about pcs with Chan and even if not clean as I have said before imho he should still be well ahead of the rest but the scoring system doesn't allow it - there just isn't room say to give Hanyu 910, Fernandez 875 and Chan 979. They all get bunched up because there isn't a lot of pts to differentiate. Moroever, I did see Chan's skate (fs) and there were only two quads - he missed the second quad toe but did a huge triple toe.

I agree also about Brown even if not 100 percent he still probably will get top ten and with Nathan on the podium or just outside three spots.

 

[Jammers]

The USFA and its criteria to select world and 4cc team is certainly different and right or wrong very based on getting more spots. You can easily rationalize things or argue things so that Brown should go, Zhou should go or heck look how they bumped up Aaron.

Brown will always do fairly well because he has great style, skating skills (PCS) Aaron as a jumper is sadly duplicitous and not as good as Chen of course or Zhou. I think Chen by the way could win olympics pending what Hanyu does. He has more quads than Boyang and Fernandez who is still prone and Chan doesn't have a chance with his inonsistency - though I could watch him just glide on the ice - the scoring system now does not give Chan and Brown really enough room to get scores that maybe they deserve.

I think you have Chen and Brown as I always said as your safe bets and the third spot open but if Zhou starts getting consistent then Aaron, Rippon, Abbott, Rabbit,Dolensky, Minor et al can say farewell. My guess is nats may have sealed the deal hat Abbott won't return. He can see the quad issue. I think it is very brave of Patrick Chan and Jason Brown to stick around. I think because Jason is younger and is really well liked there is more hope. But Hanyu really has it all and wants it all - he Hanyu the king of kings really has the advantage over Chen still because of pcs. Who would ever think 5 quads in a program would be possible. I do think this is exciting and maybe a bit sad for skating. Jumps can do it all!

I think Jeremy is done. What chance does a soon to be 32 year old who has taken the last two season off have against these kids landing multiple quads in competition? As we've seen with younger skaters taking even one season off makes it hard to come back as strong but even his best probably won't get him on the podium. Now i know V/M came back better then ever but Ice Dance doesn't require jumps.

 

[Mrs. P]

And that is why ladies and gentleman, the new rule has proven to be the Jason Brown rule.

You can also call it the Knierim rule too- since they weren't even at Nationals and haven't even competed at all this season. USFS also gave Cain/LeDuc got 4CC over Castelli/Tran (though not sure if it was under these rules -- more likely because the former can go to the Olympics and the event is an Olympic test event). Still, Castelli/Tran, despite being silver medalists, got NOTHING.

 

[Jammers]

You can also call it the Knierim rule too- since they weren't even at Nationals and haven't even competed at all this season. USFS also gave Cain/LeDuc got 4CC over Castelli/Tran (though not sure if it was under these rules -- more likely because the former can go to the Olympics and the event is an Olympic test event). Still, Castelli/Tran, despite being silver medalists, got NOTHING.

Yeah i feel that C/T got hosed too. They could have at least been sent to 4CC. The excuse that it's a Olympic test event and they won't be eligible for the Olympics is a rather lame excuse. Ashley didn't seem to worried about it being a test event and bowed out. But i am glad C/L get more experience.

 

[Dee4707]

Well to be fair on these posts he is made out to be a demi god. Wilson, nichol, buttle, bourne, lambiel, morosov, zueva et al don't nearly get the credit.

Skater Boy, let me ask you, do you think the choreographer is as important as the coach??

When I spoke of Rohene, it was just my opinion and wondered if anyone else thought the same, it wasn't meant to be a poll here on GS. I don't think of him as a demi god. I was speaking just of Rohene not anyone else. I favor him and am proud of him because of his background, do you know about him??? Loved his skating!!!

 

[matmuh]

congratz to all medalists!!! there isnt much i can say that hasnt been said before, it was really exciting to watch youngsters and their mental strenght and great to see Jason skated beatifully despite little mistakes :agree:

and congrats to Alex for bringing it again, he was great last year and great again this year, i know he isnt exactly consistent or very technical but i really hope he will get GP assignment next season:luv17: 1st time i saw him was at Nebelhorn Trophy 2014 and he skated to Sweeny Todd (even dyed his hair!:luv17 and i thought it was brilliant program, he was so compelling, i wish him all the best

 

[mrrice]

Skater Boy, let me ask you, do you think the choreographer is as important as the coach??

When I spoke of Rohene, it was just my opinion and wondered if anyone else thought the same, it wasn't meant to be a poll here on GS. I don't think of him as a demi god. I was speaking just of Rohene not anyone else. I favor him and am proud of him because of his background, do you know about him??? Loved his skating!!!

I'm not Skater Boy but, I'm going to give my opinion on this subject. I think the need for coaching is vital until skaters have made it on to the World Team more than once. Even a skater who has been around for years at a high level like Patrick Chan, needs someone to be there for logistic purposes. Booking hotels, ground transportation, checking into events, equipment and costume repair are all things that skaters need and that is where a coach or personal assistant comes in handy. For those of you who are older, you'll remember when Michelle Kwan's heel broke on her boot and needed to be repaired on the spot. Yes, there are usually boot techs on site but, having her Father there to repair her boot for her must have been like a god send.

The other thing I can say for Kori and Rohene, is that were BOTH very kind and I think that's a big reason why Jason is always smiling, even when he doesn't win. Jason lost to Joshua several times when they were younger but he was always smiling at the events I attended, and I went to quite a few.

I was a very confident competitor but, there's nothing like having someone there to build your confidence and get you pumped up to go into battle.

 

[el henry]

Was the site down? I wasn't on line because I was watching on TV. But for major competitions we often have over a thousand people on the site, which might slow it down.

I think it was the site's many fans; I received the dreaded "Server Not Responding" message several times between 3:30 and 4:00.

At 4:00 I gave up and watched the old-fashioned way, with no iPad in my lap I was surprised this happened for men's, for ladies I was fine. I thought the ladies were more popular

 

[sabinfire]

Check out pic of empty stands around sabinfire on slacky comp. chatter

I didn't realize I was that unpopular!

My seat was pretty awesome though, I snapped pics like this one right from the seat!

https://twitter.com/sabinfire/status/823307502133673985

 

[Blades of Passion]

I mean… that was one quad for each finger of a hand (unless you're Jessica Dubé)… One quad for each card in a poker hand… One quad for each Spice Girl!

OMFG, ahahaha.

 

[Shoma One]

Ay Nathan, Nathan, we turn this sport upside down, and now digest it all as a better one because I still can not get it. I have stayed out !!... The words are over. There is no precedent, or at least I do not remember, of a similar atomic bomb, breaks with all the above ... I imagine the Yuzuru Hanyu, Javier Fernandez, Patrick Chan, Shoma Uno, how they will have stayed after see this? And let's not say all those middle-level skaters trying, the vast majority, put on their quad programs with a lot of sacrifice and this guy goes and makes five with that facility, it should be a little frustrating ... Anyway, there have, is called Nathan Chen, is only 17 years old, and performs 7 quadruples, seven, in his two programs, three combined and of all colors and flavors, and against that his rivals will be able to do ... If done in Helsinki two programs similar to the ones here, neither Patrick Chan nor Shoma Uno could beat him very well if they did both, mathematically I think they did not arrive, only Javier Fernández or Yuzuru Hanyu, yes they could, if not technically, in the other artistic panel should of having enough points of margin to get ahead of the new American prodigy, but they would both have to fail nothing, or almost nothing, that is, Yuzu would need programs like those made in Barcelona 2015 (the two best programs, so far, of the history) and Javi a great malagueña and a Free as the one of Boston 2016, only thus could beat to the new American star, and that this season, for the next one that will be Olympic ay, ay, ay ...

According to Vincent Zhou demonstrating that the transition of new skaters in the USA has already begun, of course, the veterans, for different reasons have not been able to defend themselves, neither Adam, nor Jason, nor Max and come these insolent young guys to change everything, and behind other talented juniors who will also come, Alexei Krasnozhon, Andrew Torgashev or Tomoki Hiwatashi, all very good and curiously none of them with genuinely American surnames, will this be a coincidence?

Third Jason Brown who bravely has done what he could, I thought he could be worse but not, as far as it goes, quite well ... I had no doubt that he was the one chosen for Helsinki and there will be the man wearing his Beautiful scene, the boy is a charm and although the technical lack limit it will always be a pleasure to see him and enjoy with him still a Figure Skating that evolves in a sense different from the one he proposes, it also does not have to change, but he will know that he will never be able to opt for international medals because, however well he may be a very disadvantaged part of the important rivals, and for a skater coming from a country as powerful as USA, that lack in his jumps can be final for let down the curtain, hopefully get a little hold and see you at the Olympics ... Great Jason. Cheer up!!!

 

[Jaana]

Vincent wasn't chosen because Jason competed so soon after his recovery. They ironically got the same score in the free. They probably figure that a healthy Jason will score higher than an inexperienced Vincent. But I think that it's fantastic that there are more young Quadsters coming up the ranks.

No, Zhou won over Brown both in sp and fs. Zhou was 3rd in sp and 2nd in fs, so he bettered his position. The big question is, will it be a healthy Brown at 4CC or Worlds?

 

[Mrs. P]

No, Zhou won over Brown both in sp and fs. Zhou was 3rd in sp and 2nd in fs, so he bettered his position. The big question is, will it be a healthy Brown a 4CC or Worlds?

She probably meant they were practically tied, which is correct.i Zhou's margin in the FS was just .18.

 

[ice coverage]

... Alexei Krasnozhon, Andrew Torgashev or Tomoki Hiwatashi, all very good and curiously none of them with genuinely American surnames ...

:dev2: No such thing as a "genuinely" American surname. You obviously are not American yourself, or you would not have made such a meaningless reference. :dev2:

 

[Shoma One]

:dev2: No such thing as a "genuinely" American surname. You obviously are not American yourself, or you would not have made such a meaningless reference. :dev2:

No ice coverage, I'm not American, I was just referring to a Winston cigar advertisement that here, In Spain, the phrase "Winston el genuino sabor americano" "Winston the genuine American flavor" became very famous... It was simply a reference that you did not understand. Simply.

 

[ice coverage]

No ice coverage, I'm not American, I was just referring to a Winston cigar advertisement that here, In Spain, the phrase "Winston el genuino sabor americano" "Winston the genuine American flavor" became very famous... It was simply a reference that you did not understand. Simply.

Regardless of any advertising slogan, your reference is at best meaningless and at worst ... well, I will restrain myself from writing the words that are on the tip of my tongue :ddevil:.

Will simply repeat that there is no such thing as a "genuinely" American surname.

 

[Jaana]

She probably meant they were practically tied, which is correct.i Zhou's margin in the FS was just .18.

No, they did not practically tie, Zhou won. A win is a win, even with a tiny difference.

 

[Mrs. P]

No, they did not practically tie, Zhou won. A win is a win, even with a tiny difference.

Yes, I understand that, but that wasn't her point. I think frida80's point what the free skate scores were nearly the same despite Jason not being 100 percent and Vincent doing 2 quads, so that probably lessoned Vincent's case with the USFS selection committee.

Frida, feel free to jump in -- I don't want to speak for you.

 

[frida80]

Yes, I understand that, but that wasn't her point. I think frida80's point what the free skate scores were nearly the same despite Jason not being 100 percent and Vincent doing 2 quads, so that probably lessoned Vincent's case with the USFS selection committee.

Frida, feel free to jump in -- I don't want to speak for you.

You've said exactly what I wanted to say. If people can't understand that, then there is no point trying to convince them.

Vincent will be fine. He'll win jr. Worlds and challenge for a spot on the Olympic team next year.