2017 World Ladies SP

[jkun]

You know, it's not uncommon for folks to say Yuna had a hammer toe on pick assisted jumps. Just saying

This is true. While it was never as pronounced as Evgenia's she did utilize a lot of toe in her 2010 olympic season. I would say it was gone by 2013 and 2014 and her jumps were best in that part of her career, shame the rule change about the 2As, would have loved to keep seeing 2A-3T. More effortless, smooth, technically-based, although she always spoke of how hard it had gotten.

 

[jkun]

For realz? I always noticed Yuna picks the ice very lightly. She doesn't slam the ice like Evgenia does. Maybe I am just delusional LOL.

Yuna has a hammer toe compared to say, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva who probably has the purest toe jump technique among the ladies. It's usually not worth noting.

 

[IceSlayage]

I find it seriously hilarious when people say skaters 'don't have incentive to be better when they receive high scores all the time.'
These are athletes. Every competition to them is akin to a battlefield. Even if they have no worthy opponents left they'd still try to top themselves. That's why they're athletes!
No incentive. ...psh

If the formula works and the skater is rewarded greatly, Why change? Evgenia's programs have looked almost the same from last year. In fact the first half of her LP this year is IDENTICAL to the one she did last year. Every move, every step, every jump identical. I saw a youtube video comparing the two LP's, it was a little bit alarming but I can understand why she stuck with it. If she is getting WR scores why change it right? The formula must be working.

 

[Art&Sport]

Very off-topic in this thread, but breaking news is that Michelle Kwan's husband filed for divorce. No kidding.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

As I said Yuna's jump more than pays off for the cross over. If you are bored of Yuna that is fine with me. That is your opinion. No need to get violent. I prefer Yuna's huge jumps. If you think Evgenia is a better jumper and artistic skater then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
EDIT: Lol what...You agreed with Evgenia's WR? I mean she deserved the gold but do you really think she deserved that high of a score? Lol what is next? You believe her 2A should have been marked as a 5A?

I was about to be nice and agreed my comment was a bit violent and then you edited to write that... pot calling the kettle black is it?

We are indeed entitled to our own opinions. Yes I agreed to her beating Yuna's Gershwin (that was also over scored according to most fans btw), and no need to be rude. I don't think in this era Yuna's huge jumps would actually pay off for the lack of steps but I don't know the Cop enough to be sure.

My question about Shoma still stands if you feel like answering it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Very off-topic in this thread, but breaking news is that Michelle Kwan's husband filed for divorce. No kidding.

What what?? That's terrible!

 

[OniBan]

The same can be said for Yuna who has basically similar jump layouts in her programs after the Olys 2010.
but nobody's nitpicking on that lest they get shouted off the Internet now, do they?

Medvedeva is such a young girl who only debuted in the senior scene last season - why is everyone expecting her to have programs/ style repertoire of far more seasoned skaters who have years to find their style/ have varied program under her wings already is what I don't get

 

[IceSlayage]

I was about to be nice and agreed my comment was a bit violent and then you edited to write that... pot calling the kettle black is it?

We are indeed entitled to our own opinions. Yes I agreed to her beating Yuna's Gershwin (that was also over scored according to most fans btw), and no need to be rude. I don't think in this era Yuna's huge jumps would actually pay off for the lack of steps but I don't know the Cop enough to be sure.

My question about Shoma still stands if you feel like answering it.

Woopse didn't read that part. To answer that question. Honestly... No I wouldn't have a problem. I have never noticed Shoma's crossovers because his skating is such a joy to watch. So fluid and soft (and dat posture is so balletic). I don't know what it is about him but its like his skating is a continuous flowing line. I never see sudden halting or breaks during jumps. Again that is my opinion but some people may take issue to his crossovers.

 

[IceSlayage]

Actually no... Yuna's layout was similar but I am talking about IDENTICAL. Evgenia's LP from this year and last year are IDENTICAL in the first half. Same arm movements at the same times; that kind of Identical. Don't blame her though, if the formula works I wouldn't change it! Yuna debut with two completely different styles in the same year. Firey Tango SP and soft balletic Lark ascending FP. Next year she had theatrical Fiedermaus and oreintal saigon. Evgenia has used the same emotional music for two years. Again I dont blame her for that.

 

[MIM]

I rewatched a few ladies SPs. I dearly love Daleman's. Her huge jumps and superb speed, presence on the ice was mind-blowing. I can rewatch her over and over.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

Woopse didn't read that part. To answer that question. Honestly... No I wouldn't have a problem. I have never noticed Shoma's crossovers because his skating is such a joy to watch. So fluid and soft (and dat posture is so balletic). I don't know what it is about him but its like his skating is a continuous flowing line. I never see sudden halting or breaks during jumps. Again that is my opinion but some people may take issue to his crossovers.

you're consistent then. I like Shoma's skating (and posture), so I was wondering

What what?? That's terrible!

But not not as terrible as Evgenia's PCS

 

[SnowWhite]

I agree with you. Evgenia's jumps are definitely not on the small side. But I do think they are problematic in the way she creates height, which is really a commentary on the Tubteridze camp overall. She winds up her toe jumps like no other. Which really shows itself in the 3F-3T, 3S-3T, and ESPECIALLY in her 2A-2T-2T. She makes that easy combo look like a marathon. Also she has a substantial hammer-toe. Osmond is definitely the most pleasing jumper in the field right now.

:agree2:

Sometimes when I read the after-event thread posts it makes me kinda relieved I wasn't here for Sochi 2014 after-event discussions

I feel this way every time Sochi gets brought up

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm going to say something that will get me slaughtered on this board. I hope someone will save me!

I'm glad that people are doing lots of arm variations and I hope to see more and I hope skaters will do them in all different ways. Bent arms, extended arms, whatever. I think the jumps are more interesting than the pulled in chicken wings that most skaters do when they jump without arm variations. I don't care whether the judges reward them or not but as a viewer I like the variety. Poor me...

 

[Skater Boy]

Boy, I think Medvedeva and Osmond (and Gabby to a degree) are a bit overscored on tech and PCS. I think Karen Chen deserved a bit more on PCS. I think Ash Wagner is being way under-rated, and Sotskova way over-rated, especially on PCS. No way Sotskova should be ahead of Wagner by percentage points. I think Ash deserved somewhere at least 71+ based on the way the scores were being handed out. But coming in as second place American isn't helpful to her.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the fp, both with performances and with the judges' scoring

I respect your opinion but disagree. First Kaetlyn and Evgenia regardless of whether you liked their music had speed, power, amplitude and confidence in their programs over the Americans. THey were not on the edge as to rotations. Second, Chen already got the benefit in respect to her jumps and she seems to be getting the benefit of the pcs - because judges could have chosen to go the Li route - and in Chen case go she seems femininene and graceful but say she is too juniorish - I am not saying that is necessarily my position but her skating leaves that open. Ashley really sold the performance and is the best performer other than maybe Osmond. But she had errors - small ones. She was rewarded more than generously. Chen could have been lower.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I'd like to remind everyone that Yuna hasn't competed in 3 years, so however she was marked in the past has nothing to do with the scores at 2017 Worlds. The basis of comparison for Evgenia's marks are those of Kaetlyn, Gabrielle, Anna, etc.

 

[Mathman]

I'm going to say something that will get me slaughtered on this board. I hope someone will save me!

I'm glad that people are doing lots of arm variations and I hope to see more and I hope skaters will do them in all different ways. Bent arms, extended arms, whatever. I think the jumps are more interesting than the pulled in chicken wings that most skaters do when they jump without arm variations. I don't care whether the judges reward them or not but as a viewer I like the variety. Poor me...

I see your point. But to me, there is just something "classic" about the classic jump position, chicken wings and all. For sure I miss the classic arabesque layback that no one does anymore, preferring instead to muscle their leg up at least to the side of their head. (And don't get me started on spirals. )

 

[Tolstoj]

Evgenia's PCS is legitimately insane. . She has the edge on choreo/music interpretation/composition, but Katelyn clearly has better SS and performance...

I would say that at least Evgenia has the stamina to begin and finish a steps sequence with the same energy while Kaetlyn you can clearly see that she is always tired at the end of her steps sequences, and i think they know that in fact there is a music cut in the middle of it for both the SP and LP (which doesn't make too much sense since she is happy and sad 1 seconds after, but helps her to recover)

To the comment about Yuna and her crossovers and speed. If Evgenia could jump into her jump with as much speed and control exposivity as Yuna could, she would be doing it. Katelyn has good speed and has learned to control her explosive jumps which is currently making her stand out of the current field, which lacks big jumpers. Evgenia stands out for consistency and her arm variations.

Evgenia stands out because she can uses that 10% bonus more than anyone else on the senior field, and on top of that she doesn't have a real weakness, she is good at everything maybe without excelling on something (we could say the same for Javier Fernandez, two times world champion) but she is indeed the complete package.

Also what i'm appreciating on her skating is the fact that she isn't watering down her contents just because now judges are rewarding her as the new queen of figure skating: she has still the most difficult programs, while some other skater in the past (including Yuna) took advantage of that extra help from the judges to ditch every difficult element.
I hope Evgenia will continue to challenge herself with new tricks to add in her programs even after 2018 OG.

I feel kind of bad for her actually because I think she is going to get a rude greeting in korea next year for no reason.

How? Judges are giving these scores, she is just skating. If you are not okay with these scores, you should not blame her.

I do hope that those people who bashes her are just haters and not the majority of people in korea, that would be sad.

Though I am expecting some bad surprise at 2018 for her but as i said before, if she wins everything before, then it doesn't really matter who wins the Olympics: Lysacek won 2010 Olympics but we all know that Plushenko was clearly the best skater of that era.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Actually no... Yuna's layout was similar but I am talking about IDENTICAL. Evgenia's LP from this year and last year are IDENTICAL in the first half. Same arm movements at the same times; that kind of Identical.

Medvedeva has essentially maxed out her tech content so she would just be rearranging elements, which is pointless (unless you'd like to see her change her layout by entirely backloading her FS a la Zagitova? ).

Kim, on the other hand, could have rearranged and increased her technical content - e.g. gone back to doing 3Z+3T & 2A+3T... or 3Z+3T & 3F+3T... or swapping a second 3S for a second 3F... or even add back a 3L if it wasn't risky for her hip.

I disagree that the arm movements are identical. It's not the difference of night and day, either, but it's not the exact same.

I think we just get desensitized to Medvedeva's skating because of how predictably clean she is, however she does make small improvements, e.g. the rippon 3T in her SP, or the harder 3L entry compared to last year.

 

[Bcash]

Someone said Mevedeva skates bored. And I, in return, am always bored watching her. This type of Bambi-ish, lanky, huge boot flopping around skating just doesn't do it for me (and Zagitova is waiting in the wings to continue it.) Med wins by exploiting the points system and for some reason the judges give her matching PCS which I don't think is deserved. Another day, another Med win/world record or whatever. Zzzz. But totally expected all the same.

Lol this sums up my impression of her skating perfectly. Her legs and leg movements look super weird and I think that music choice is insensitive and tasteless. I came back to watching Figure Skating early this season and was checking out the top contenders in each field, I closed the video of Medvedeva halfway through her program. I get that she's a point machine but to see this type of skater break records set by the likes of Yuna Kim does feel like a bit of an injustice to Kim.

But then again I felt the same way about Asada when she first burst onto the scene in 2005 (who skated like a wet noodle, which was how someone here described early Hanyu), and she did develop into a much more mature and enjoyable skater. So maybe Medvedeva will improve. Or maybe she'll just retire after next season, same as the Russian champion in Sochi. (Not trying to be snarky here, really can't spell her name, I know it's S something.)

 

[Alexz]

Wakaba should be higher too... IMHO