2017 Worlds Men's FS

[Lambari]

Disagree. Seimei's construction is so unique and personalized. H&L is a bit of a snooze fest for me. I wish Hanyu saved Seimeibfor the Olympics. That program deserves to be iconic.

SEIMEI for me somehow is more stereotypically great, even while having a personalized theme, which makes an unusual combination that I also love. It's designed to have flashy choreographic moments especially by the end of it since it's construction is based on a 'build up' (more precisely a slow down in the middle to build up in the end) just like many other programs considered to be great in FS. And, yes, it would be a great choice for Olympics due to this reason I'm not very sure of a japanese themed program in Korea though however he still can have a program with similar construction next season. I agree that it's unique theme is another positive. While H&L has many more subtle moments throughout the whole program that you can pinpoint if you're being attentive enough and still isn't completely one tone. Even if many of them don't 'obviously' standout as they were saying "I was placed here to impress you", they collectively make up the type of program that can put me in a trance and make me watch it on loop without being emotionally exhausting, it's like watching a ribbon. Especially since I already favour this style of program and music. And, of course, for others it may seem like a snooze fest. I'm not condemning anyone, it's a matter a preference.

H&L's theme also attracts me as much as SEIMEI's.

 

[zschultz1986]

He is a jewel and I like his raw style much more than the artistry of Brown.

And I like posts with substance much more than your blantanly obvious haterade. But hey, there's room for everyone, I guess.

 

[jeff goldblum]

Well, at least my gold medal prediction was correct, and I couldn't be happier. I watched right up until they announced his name, but couldn't bring myself to watch. Instead, I followed folks' comments here and thankfully the video was up by the time Boyang took the ice. It was nice to see Hanyu do the performance he'd been striving for all season; his happiness in the kiss and cry made me feel like it would still be a great outcome even if he didn't end up winning. But he wanted that gold, and he got it back. I think the program is harder to appreciate than Seimei, because it is far more subtle. Seimei had this driving percussive rhythm almost from start to finish that I think is easier to choreograph and skate too. I also think he also followed the unfortunate trend we've seen from other skaters this season of diminishing the choreography as the season wore on. Things like the back spiral that were initially there disappeared; here he didn't even do the squat position in his spread eagle after the 4S-3T. All that aside, I think this was deservedly the highest scoring free skate ever.

Shoma did well too. I like him and have loved this program since the beginning. Good to see his excessive number of competitions paid off for him here. It's probably trivial to quibble about the scoring when your favorite wins, but I am confused as to how this was so close. I know the quad loop has only been in the program for the past few competitions, but even with that addition I don't see how this wound up nearly 20 points over what was listed as his season's best. At some point I will have to go through his competition results and videos to see if my feeling is confirmed or not; I may just be misremembering. We're kind of less able to say "oh who cares about the scoring as long as the results are right?" now that we have a points based system. I know PCS is the usual target, but I think some funny things happen just as much with the TES scoring as well. For instance, in the short program I cannot for the life of me see how Javier's Axel scored more than Hanyu's. It didn't, but those kinds of point discrepancies can have a huge impact on the results.

I'm surprised Nathan struggled so much here. He really has come across as the type that is only fueled by nerves and the pressure of competition. As much as I expected Yuzuru to win, I thought Chen had a fair shot at becoming the youngest champion ever. He still seems to be on that stage where the mistakes really affect the performance quality. For me, he seemed much less engaged with the choreography after the mistakes than we've seen him at other points. Glad we were able to secure three spots, but next year is going to be tough for Brown with Zhou presumably pushing for a spot and Joshua Farris maybe back in contention with two different quads.

Saddened for Fernandez even though I predicted he'd be off the podium. Something didn't feel on for him this season, and I'm not sure why. I hope that he will be able to get a medal at the Olympics next season.

Do we still have WTT coming up?

 

[luckyguy]

And I like posts with substance much more than your blantanly obvious haterade. But hey, there's room for everyone, I guess.

Relax and think about your posts against Medvedeva.

 

[jaylee]

Happy that Yuzuru Hanyu won a second world title, and I marvel at his SP repeatedly, though his FS didn't thrill me as much. He's too great a skater to have "only" one world title. A bit weird coincidence that in both of his world wins, he needed a PCS advantage over a fellow Japanese teammate who skated brilliantly enough to win. Given his amazing technical arsenal, it's just surprising that his wins came down to PCS. (I am not saying he doesn't deserve the higher PCS advantage. Just surprised that he wasn't able to win on technical merit alone either time.)

Sad for Javier, but as with P/C, I think it's a bit helpful for him to know that he's got work to do going into the Olympics. Being a 3-time reigning world champ doesn't always work in your favor (see Chan, Patrick, circa 2013-2014). I'm concerned that his best Olympic medal shot might've been in 2014, because it's all he needs for his career to feel complete. I really want him to have an Olympic medal of any color. The men's field is so much deeper and there are so many more risky and challenging elements that can swing a competition result. His programs this year weren't great, so I hope he gets amazing Olympic programs.

Happy for Patrick and Boyang's strong performances, and delighted that Nathan and Jason earned three spots!!! Nathan did all right for his first worlds and it's just a bit too soon for a world title. Hopefully he'll use this as motivation to come back with much stronger programs next year and to give equal effort to artistry and connecting with the audience.

Overall, a really great men's competition.

 

[zschultz1986]

Relax and think about your posts against Medvedeva.

Right, because saying she's an amazing skater who's way above that crap long program she had is haterade? I've never said that she was an unworthy winner, or that her placements were wrong. I've also said I dislike the overuse of the tano arm variation and that the ISU should have a rule limiting those kinds of things like they did with the Bielmann spin variation, but she's well within the current rules to use it as much as she wants. There's no haterade of the skater, just the garbage program she was given to skate to. She was the outright winner of this and last year. I can both appreciate her talents while simultaneously hating the program.

When you come, come correct, or don't come at all.

Any other snide remarks? :noshake: No? I didn't think so.


My thoughts on the Free: Thank you, Jason! HOLY **** Yuzu, you killed it! Nathan looked like skating after Yuzu and that roar might have affected him. Boyang still isn't my cup of tea, but damn can he jump. Sad for Javi, he "Pogo'd" that free.

 

[HanDomi]

Happy that Yuzuru Hanyu won a second world title, and I marvel at his SP repeatedly, though his FS didn't thrill me as much. He's too great a skater to have "only" one world title. A bit weird coincidence that in both of his world wins, he needed a PCS advantage over a fellow Japanese teammate who skated brilliantly enough to win. Given his amazing technical arsenal, it's just surprising that his wins came down to PCS. (I am not saying he doesn't deserve the higher PCS advantage. Just surprised that he wasn't able to win on technical merit alone either time.)

well, some of his GOEs were in my opinion too low for the quality he showed there, skating earlier propably affected this

 

[ramurphy2005]

Nathan looked like skating after Yuzu and that roar might have affected him.

I think it was his boot issues that threw him off more than anything. You can see him trying to adjust things after falling on that first jump.

Tara was talking about how Raf had to keep taping up his boots so they'd stay stable. I give Nathan a lot of props for putting out what he did under those circumstances because I'm sure it wasn't easy.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

He is a jewel and I like his raw style much more than the artistry of Brown.

Re: Jason and Nathan

I don't like one more than the other myself. I just like them both differently. I can see why people have mixed reactions to the two. Two completely different skaters in nearly every way possible.

 

[fishheadanon]

well, some of his GOEs were in my opinion too low for the quality he showed there, skating earlier propably affected this

Well, judges significantly lowballed his GOEs but I guess the skating gods were watching. I don't know, what does he have to do to get +3s? Tano everything? Can anyone else pull that kind of landing and flow for every jump at that difficulty right now?

 

[bobbob]

Yuzu was amazing ... awe-inspiring program! He is continually improving and it is really amazing to watch.

I personally think Shoma was very overrated, with his scratchy and pre-rotated jumps. Had he landed all his jumps cleanly with no scratchy landings or botched jumps, him and Yuzu would have been essentially tied in the free skate. That is ridiculous. A couple of the GOEs Shoma got were head-scratching...+3 across the board for a 3A+3T that was pretty low...should have been between +1 and +2. Yuzu should have a PCS/overall element quality buffer of at least 10 points, and Yuzu should have been 20 points ahead of Shoma today. Yuzu's skating just has much better flow with superior transitions, more one footed skating, and IMO more awe-striking programs. Not to mention more secure and larger jumps, and today a cleaner program.

Boyang was also fantastic...by far the best I've seen him skate. His PCS is slowly going up also, and I thought he had the second best skate of the night, even though the points probably never had a chance to going above Shoma. He is developing a personality and improving his jumps....best 4Lz I've ever seen.

We have yet to see Yuzu and Javi BOTH go clean in a single skate...short program or long program...worlds last year was Yuzu short Javi long, this year it was the other way round. What a treat that would be.

 

[zschultz1986]

I think it was his boot issues that threw him off more than anything. You can see him trying to adjust things after falling on that first jump.

Tara was talking about how Raf had to keep taping up his boots so they'd stay stable. I give Nathan a lot of props for putting out what he did under those circumstances because I'm sure it wasn't easy.

Yeah I read that his custom boots fell apart. That sucks. Still got three spots, but I know he was hunting for a medal.

 

[luckyguy]

When you come, come correct, or don't come at all.

Any other snide remarks? :noshake: No? I didn't think so.

Your words about Medvedeva (GPF):

"This is crap. The program is trash, she was slower than usual, and there was a mistake.

Go to Broadway if you want to overact that much."

Once again: RELAX.

 

[zschultz1986]

Your words about Medvedeva (GPF):

"This is crap. The program is trash, she was slower than usual, and there was a mistake.

Go to Broadway if you want to overact that much."

Once again: RELAX.

And yet, she still deserved to win. Another quote from that thread by me: "Please show me where I said I didn't like her. Not liking a crap program != Not liking her. I also said she deserved the win. So please, show me where I said I didn't like her." Go re-read the thread. I trash the program while still saying Med is a great skater. You're implying that I dislike her skating, which is false, she is a great and well-deserved two-time world champion.

Once again: Come correct, or don't come at all.

You've now hijacked this thread enough, I'm done engaging with you.

 

[MaiKatze]

Well, at least my gold medal prediction was correct, and I couldn't be happier. I watched right up until they announced his name, but couldn't bring myself to watch. Instead, I followed folks' comments here and thankfully the video was up by the time Boyang took the ice. It was nice to see Hanyu do the performance he'd been striving for all season; his happiness in the kiss and cry made me feel like it would still be a great outcome even if he didn't end up winning. But he wanted that gold, and he got it back. I think the program is harder to appreciate than Seimei, because it is far more subtle. Seimei had this driving percussive rhythm almost from start to finish that I think is easier to choreograph and skate too. I also think he also followed the unfortunate trend we've seen from other skaters this season of diminishing the choreography as the season wore on. Things like the back spiral that were initially there disappeared; here he didn't even do the squat position in his spread eagle after the 4S-3T. All that aside, I think this was deservedly the highest scoring free skate ever.

Shoma did well too. I like him and have loved this program since the beginning. Good to see his excessive number of competitions paid off for him here. It's probably trivial to quibble about the scoring when your favorite wins, but I am confused as to how this was so close. I know the quad loop has only been in the program for the past few competitions, but even with that addition I don't see how this wound up nearly 20 points over what was listed as his season's best. At some point I will have to go through his competition results and videos to see if my feeling is confirmed or not; I may just be misremembering. We're kind of less able to say "oh who cares about the scoring as long as the results are right?" now that we have a points based system. I know PCS is the usual target, but I think some funny things happen just as much with the TES scoring as well. For instance, in the short program I cannot for the life of me see how Javier's Axel scored more than Hanyu's. It didn't, but those kinds of point discrepancies can have a huge impact on the results.

I'm surprised Nathan struggled so much here. He really has come across as the type that is only fueled by nerves and the pressure of competition. As much as I expected Yuzuru to win, I thought Chen had a fair shot at becoming the youngest champion ever. He still seems to be on that stage where the mistakes really affect the performance quality. For me, he seemed much less engaged with the choreography after the mistakes than we've seen him at other points. Glad we were able to secure three spots, but next year is going to be tough for Brown with Zhou presumably pushing for a spot and Joshua Farris maybe back in contention with two different quads.

Saddened for Fernandez even though I predicted he'd be off the podium. Something didn't feel on for him this season, and I'm not sure why. I hope that he will be able to get a medal at the Olympics next season.

Do we still have WTT coming up?

Shoma has never skated his long program as good as here. In fact he usually had the odd mistake or two. He skated it clean at GPF but the tech wasn't as high as he didn't have the loop and missed one combination. So it makes sense that his score soared up into never reached heights here. He wasn't completely clean but the step out he had was on a triple jump and not even the axel, so it didn't hurt as much. I agree with the placement. I love Yuzuru and Shoma both and don't want Shoma to go into the Olympic season as reigning World Champion. That would have been too much pressure. Now he knows he's able to deliver when it counts. It's not so much about the placement.

That said, I think both Yuzuru AND Shoma have sold their programs better this season than at Worlds. Even with mistakes, they were more engaged, and not as stiff. I just rewatched the programs on Eurosport and both seemed extremely focused and some of the choreographic highlights were suddenly gone. They both concentrated hard to come through with the content. Here it becomes obvious that artistry always seems to suffer if the skater focus on the jump. I don't know if anyone can change that ever. It is very hard to do and at the moment skating clean is rewarded more than the artistry so I understood why they did it.

 

[Rissa]

Sad for Javi but saw this a mile away. Ten plus points is insignificant for the men and their TES nowadays. Javi was not as lucky as Hanyu when he bomb last year to grab silver. He could have placed over Boyang if he'd just been a little bit better but Jin deserves this medal after a season of being cast aside all season by the judges and he fully deserves that PCS. I'd given him higher honestly. That said I see Hanyu has another tainted World Championship win. He should have never won in 2014 and Uno for me is the champion for this year. Machida and Uno can now console each other in their common fate.

Whut? I get the Machida/Hanyu grumblings but today? How is a foot-perfect, packed with highest-quality content FS a tainted win? A love me some Shoma, but Hanyu's quality WAS better than Shoma's, in both tech elements and components, more than enough to make up for the 6 point difference.

 

[Nika09]

Can anyone explain why every video with Men's event (not Pairs and Ladies) going to blocked? It's so annoying. Is there any way to rewatch?

 

[Rissa]

Wasn't Hanyu written off just like few days ago ?

Only 2 days ago! The poll indicates that until the SP it was still his to lose.

But holy crap this emtire championships is full of surprises and unexpected twists.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Wait is Yuzuru's win controversial somehow?

His performance was stunning? Absolute perfection. He absolutely deserved this win, that shouldn't be a question.

 

[Rissa]

Wait is Yuzuru's win controversial somehow?

His performance was stunning? Absolute perfection. He absolutely deserved this win, that shouldn't be a question.

Lol, no, it's not controversial.