2018-2019 Russian Nationals Ladies FS

[Sam-Skwantch]

Out of random off topic curiosity....which other countries have multiple Ladies in their 20’s competing on the GP this year. France? US has Mariah but are there any others?

 

[Metis]

INMO, the posters that are concerned with losing three spots are just nervous nellies. Anything can happen of course, but to me the chances that Zagitova and Tuktamysheva will not beat the 13-placement threshold are pretty remote, even if they both have undistinguished outings and Japan sweeps the podium.

Zagitova is very much The Team, though, and everything rests on her being physically strong and having two clean skates. If Tuktamysheva isn’t able to go or does poorly, then it’s on Samodurova and/or Konstantinova. I agree that the odds of Russia losing a spot is relatively low, but it’s nowhere near the lock all the “the only person who can beat Zagitova is Rika but only with three 3As” hype from the start of the season.

Plus, to tell the truth, I do think that a country that can field a senior team of Zagitova, Konstantinova, Samudorova, Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva, not to mention a raft of next-tier skaters like Sotskova, is pretty deep after all. Does any other nation besides Japan come close?

Medvedeva is having a transitional season with all the chaos that entails. Samudorova has relatively solid technique but is a ~200 TSS skater — she’s young and PCS isn’t where she rakes in points. Konstantinova has technical issues and a history of inconsistency. Tuktamysheva... I love her, she is Our Lady of Perpetual Lutz, but she is also not a high-scoring skater and needs the 3As to be competitive. And the next-tier skaters have had bad outings — Sotskova was buried at her GP events, Daria is injured and did poorly as well, etc. It’s shakier than it sounds.

There’s a difference between spraying a Target with semi-automatic fire and hitting five bullseyes with a pistol, you know? That’s kind of how I feel about the Russian ladies. Russia has more ~190-200 total score skaters than anyone else, and one skater who can score 220+. Japan has five ladies who can score 205+ and who have scored 200+ for more than just a season.

 

[Mathman]

But it was like that from the moment i can remember, from Oksana Baluil and Tara Lipinski, through YuNa Kim and Alina Zagitova. Arakawa was the only 'mature' lady who won Olympics. Its not that this Russian juniors changing something in that regard...

True enough, there have always been youthful prodigies that were able to outskate everyone else, especially at the Olympics.

Still, something feels different this time around. I hope we are not moving to a situation where we say, "Well, yes, So-and-so just won the Senior World Championship. but she would obviously finish no higher than 6th if she had to compete in Juniors.

 

[binky]

for me medvedeva is the best russian skater. zagitova has no presentation, bent shoulders, pasted smile, no arms, but does the work. the little girls are just that. little rotators. so sorry that medvedeva did not succeed here as she is certainly the most wonderful natural skater. but the short program did not suit her this year.

 

[rachno2]

But it was like that from the moment i can remember, from Oksana Baluil and Tara Lipinski, through YuNa Kim and Alina Zagitova. Arakawa was the only 'mature' lady who won Olympics. Its not that this Russian juniors changing something in that regard...

You're right. It isn't a Russian juniors thing, it is a peculiarity of the ladies discipline. In no other field can a first-year senior so quickly rise up the ranks in both TES and PCS. ID teams do not win everything as first-year seniors. Pair teams, even with good tech, get scored in PCS according to the quality and maturity of their skating skills. It could happen with Gogolev, I guess--but we will see how his quads/PCS hold up as a senior. I have a feeling he we will not have the same meteoric rise as Zagitova or Kihira, though his JGPF scores are troubling.

I'm not saying first-year seniors with superior technical skills like Zagitova or Kihira need to "wait their turn"; if they have the tech, and execute it as well as those girls do, then they are obviously going to win things. I just wish they weren't scored in PCS as if they were these well-developed senior skaters with the best presentation skills in the field. Of course they aren't--they are first-year seniors, and it is normal that they still have room to grow. Nothing is ever going to change so long as that continues to happen, and I don't understand why it tends to happen in ladies to such a radical extent.

It will always come down to PCS being a mess.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I'm not saying first-year seniors with superior technical skills like Zagitova or Kihira need to "wait their turn"; if they have the tech, and execute it as well as those girls do, then they are obviously going to win things. I just wish they weren't scored in PCS as if they were these well-developed senior skaters with the best presentation skills in the field. Of course they aren't--they are first-year seniors, and it is normal that they still have room to grow. Nothing is ever going to change so long as that continues to happen, and I don't understand why it tends to happen in ladies to such a radical extent.

It will always come down to PCS being a mess.

I don't think they are a mess. They are being scored more or less the way they are defined. The truth is there is no requirement for 'maturity in presentation' in any of those components and skaters can portrait both child and women and any character/story/music they want to. The point is that any of those components is judging different set of skills. Someone will score good in Skating Skills with demonstrating good speed, flow and edges, someone else with steps and turns/multidirectional and one foot skating. Someone will score good in Composition with demonstrating excelent purpose in their skating, someone else with excelent ice coverage and by variety in body movements and excelent using of space/ice rink. Juniors are just using different skills (the one they can demonstrate) to score well most of the time. But i can see why someone prefer different way of performing. For me personaly variety of styles is the most important thing for one competition to succeed, not who is the winner at the end (and i guess general audience thinks the same), so i understand why with components ISU is awarding a broad specter of things - because different people like to see different things and the general audience is the one who need to enjoy by watching it, not just we - die hard fans

 

[rachno2]

Fair enough “Mature” probably wasn’t the right word for me to use. I really do not care about body types or age limits or portraying an adult vs portraying a child, and I find the “woman’s skating” vs “girl’s skating” rhetoric tedious. I just tend to enjoy seniors more than juniors because they, on average and in my opinion, tend to have better skating skills, more ice coverage, more nuanced interpretation, and smoother flow. Strictly in my opinion. But it’s not about what the viewer enjoys, after all.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Yes, but my younger niece and her friends like to see 'younger' skaters, or more comedy routines or more modern pop music (Aguilera :hopelessness routines, and they dont enjoy skating to the classical music that much, so... It must be something for all of us, i guess BTW i was already expressing my feeling about that and i think age limit should be rased by one year (full 16 years as min for Seniors competitions is scientifically correct i think), so...

 

[AlexRus]

Just now (from 21:18 to 21:28 Moscow time) was interview with Shcherbakova, Trusova, Kostornaia at 1tv.ru - 10 minutes of 45-minutes main news TV program in Russia (program "Vremya", means "time").

 

[Lester]

Actually all these girls would be a lot more enjoyable to watch if they started bending their knees.

 

[moriel]

Zagitova is very much The Team, though, and everything rests on her being physically strong and having two clean skates. If Tuktamysheva isn’t able to go or does poorly, then it’s on Samodurova and/or Konstantinova. I agree that the odds of Russia losing a spot is relatively low, but it’s nowhere near the lock all the “the only person who can beat Zagitova is Rika but only with three 3As” hype from the start of the season.


Medvedeva is having a transitional season with all the chaos that entails. Samudorova has relatively solid technique but is a ~200 TSS skater — she’s young and PCS isn’t where she rakes in points. Konstantinova has technical issues and a history of inconsistency. Tuktamysheva... I love her, she is Our Lady of Perpetual Lutz, but she is also not a high-scoring skater and needs the 3As to be competitive. And the next-tier skaters have had bad outings — Sotskova was buried at her GP events, Daria is injured and did poorly as well, etc. It’s shakier than it sounds.

There’s a difference between spraying a Target with semi-automatic fire and hitting five bullseyes with a pistol, you know? That’s kind of how I feel about the Russian ladies. Russia has more ~190-200 total score skaters than anyone else, and one skater who can score 220+. Japan has five ladies who can score 205+ and who have scored 200+ for more than just a season.

There is no hype.
The only person who can beat a clean Zagitova is Rika with three 3As.

 

[Netta]

I'm not saying first-year seniors with superior technical skills like Zagitova or Kihira need to "wait their turn"; if they have the tech, and execute it as well as those girls do, then they are obviously going to win things. I just wish they weren't scored in PCS as if they were these well-developed senior skaters with the best presentation skills in the field.
...
It will always come down to PCS being a mess.

Speaking about Zagitova, imo she was underscored in PCS at the beginning her first senior season. Atleast three of marks as performance, transitions and composition were much better than many other senior ladies, but got scored exactly as ex-junior skater who "have to wait her turn" and only after couple of events her grade reached the real point.
Another young lady, Alena Kostornaya is just 15 yo but her skating skills and interpretation were amazing at recent Russian Nationals as well as in last year, in her first junior season. She was so magnificent on ice and probably only her and Zagitova's LPs were'n looked boring in first half with backloading pattern. Juniors always get lower PCS as established practice, but since she's obviously underscored, it will be fair to raise her score sharply to proper level in seniors.

PCS is often a mess outside seniors/juniors btw. For example, Konstantinova. If she skate well, her PCS seems to be high, but really she got scored low. In GP event she got just 61 PCS in LP whereas Alina 72. Was there a real difference in 11 points between them? I don't think so. Alina was clearly better with transitions but Stanislava got higher skating skills. Unfortunately, with no reflection in protocols.