2018 Europeans Ladies FS

[Spirals for Miles]

I think Evgenia would have been closer to Alina if it weren't for her 2A in the short. In fact, she probably would have been leading by a little bit over Alina.
That being said, to cement her position as number 1, Evgenia should change to a 3F-3Lo combo in the free and I would say she should change 2A-2T-2T to 3F-2T-2Lo in the second half. I would also think she should put a tano or a rippon on her solo loop. I don't think that putting a 3F-3Lo in the short would help her because then to get any benefit out of it, she'd have to do a 3Lz as the solo jump and risk getting a ! or an e, so I'd say her layouts should be, for best chances:

SP: 3F-3T x, 3Lo x, 2A x
FS: 3F-3Lo, 3Lz, 3F-2T-2Lo x, 3Lo x, 2A x, 3S-3T x, 2A x
Of course, we don't know if this is feasible for her. But considering her strength, if she hadn't been injured she'd have a high chance at this. I don't know what her injury does to this. But if she can do it, and I think she can will herself through it for the Olympics, she can.

 

[jenaj]

There you go, an explanation.

To add, it is evident from past events that judges can be influenced by monetary promises. In these cases, fans do know better.

Yes, judges can be wrong. But so can fans, especially the ones who take every opportunity to express their superior "expertise" every time they claim the judges got it wrong--and they don't like the skater whose jumps they are criticizing (or like another skater more). That's what some of these reflexive criticisms are all about.

 

[jenaj]

The way you are trying to use that word is not applicable to anything you quoted. And the judges are hardly the most educated and/or objective people about the sport and how to use the scoring system. Considering the constant rise in GOE and PCS in the scoring system across the years or even within a single season for essentially the EXACT same performance, then actually it would appear the judges have constantly made many flawed assessments, except at the current competition they are judging. They are always correct at the current competition they are judging. Yep.

Of course they are not always correct. No doubt there is PCS inflation and overscoring. But fan nitpicking on "cheats" and
under rotations is just as annoying, especially when it's accompanied by an air of superior knowledge.

 

[qwertyskates]

I think Evgenia would have been closer to Alina if it weren't for her 2A in the short. In fact, she probably would have been leading by a little bit over Alina.
That being said, to cement her position as number 1, Evgenia should change to a 3F-3Lo combo in the free and I would say she should change 2A-2T-2T to 3F-2T-2Lo in the second half. I would also think she should put a tano or a rippon on her solo loop. I don't think that putting a 3F-3Lo in the short would help her because then to get any benefit out of it, she'd have to do a 3Lz as the solo jump and risk getting a ! or an e, so I'd say her layouts should be, for best chances:

SP: 3F-3T x, 3Lo x, 2A x
FS: 3F-3Lo, 3Lz, 3F-2T-2Lo x, 3Lo x, 2A x, 3S-3T x, 2A x
Of course, we don't know if this is feasible for her. But considering her strength, if she hadn't been injured she'd have a high chance at this. I don't know what her injury does to this. But if she can do it, and I think she can will herself through it for the Olympics, she can.

I expect her to up her ante, knowing what Med is like. :agree2:

 

[Kinga]

It's not weird. She knows better than anyone the better skater didn't win. I'm extremely upset. I can't imagine how upset Eteri is.

That is something I don't understand, why would Eteri be upset? Is it confirmed or is it just a gosip? I mean, her skater won. If she doesn't want to be in such situation, quit coaching other skaters other than Medvedeva.

Skating quality?
Flowing edges?
Speed?
Maturity?

? And because of these qualities her LP was judged as 3rd of the night? She should have lost LP to Sotskova, Hendrickx and maybe even Schott. These qualities should never ever compensate for 2 triples technical content. That is for ice dancing or show skating. It is disrespectful to other skaters, Sotskova or Hendrickx are not exactly novice wooden skaters. Plus, it is easier to demonstrate flow and edges when the program content is not fully packed. Don't get me wrong, I like watching her skating, but this time her qualities vanished in error-ridden program. And she was not equally convincing in that LP yesterday. She did not interpret it that well. Costume didn’t help either. It DOESN'T match that delicate music. It would be great for techno-electronic music.

Ok, so your competitor for the Olympic spot is performing a program with a costume change in the middle of two very different types of music, you put out a program with a costume change in the middle of a drastic music change like a kind of joke, put "booing" sounds in the music right at the part of costume change, isn't that like throwing shade? I wonder why the French Fed didn't intervene.

I doubt Mae knew that Laurine gets back to Grease program when she went for her weird LP this season. And even IF she wanted to ridicule Laurine's LP (which I doubt), that is rather low incentive to design your Oly program around it.

 

[qwertyskates]

Yes, judges can be wrong. But so can fans, especially the ones who take every opportunity to express their superior "expertise" every time they claim the judges got it wrong--and they don't like the skater whose jumps they are criticizing (or like another skater more). That's what some of these reflexive criticisms are all about.

Exactly, most of these vocal fans are biased, and their comments are subjective. It can't be that ALL the international judges at JGP, JGPF, at CoC,at IdF, at GPF, at Euros, it's A LOT of judges and technical specialists, that they are ALL WRONG and a few outspoken fans are right. And then there's the quality of the criticisms and arguments, I can see exactly what the judges see, as do many Zagi's fans and media commentators. It's a large, stable, varied majority vs a vocal, same-old, minority.

 

[xabia]

Just want to pick up on Debussy's "L'apres midi d'un faun". It's about a mythological creature (a FAUN) and not an animal (a FAWN). And the editing at the beginning together with the drastic cut at the end is unforgivable.

And I agree with the entire world that that costume was hideous - it's as if Las Vegas had asked Nijinski to perform at Caesar's Palace and thought his original costume was too understated. A replica of Nijinski's costume would have enhanced her performance, despite her mistakes.

 

[yume]

I think Evgenia would have been closer to Alina if it weren't for her 2A in the short. In fact, she probably would have been leading by a little bit over Alina.
That being said, to cement her position as number 1, Evgenia should change to a 3F-3Lo combo in the free and I would say she should change 2A-2T-2T to 3F-2T-2Lo in the second half. I would also think she should put a tano or a rippon on her solo loop. I don't think that putting a 3F-3Lo in the short would help her because then to get any benefit out of it, she'd have to do a 3Lz as the solo jump and risk getting a ! or an e, so I'd say her layouts should be, for best chances:

SP: 3F-3T x, 3Lo x, 2A x
FS: 3F-3Lo, 3Lz, 3F-2T-2Lo x, 3Lo x, 2A x, 3S-3T x, 2A x
Of course, we don't know if this is feasible for her. But considering her strength, if she hadn't been injured she'd have a high chance at this. I don't know what her injury does to this. But if she can do it, and I think she can will herself through it for the Olympics, she can.

She doesn't seem comfortable with loop combos. She doesn't even put a 2lo on her 2A-2-2 combo. And earlier in the season she did 3lo-2T-2T and 3F-2T-2T. No loop. I really doubt that she can do a 3-3lo in competition.

 

[koatcue]

Just want to pick up on Debussy's "L'apres midi d'un faun". It's about a mythological creature (a FAUN) and not an animal (a FAWN). And the editing at the beginning together with the drastic cut at the end is unforgivable.

And I agree with the entire world that that costume was hideous - it's as if Las Vegas had asked Nijinski to perform at Caesar's Palace and thought his original costume was too understated. A replica of Nijinski's costume would have enhanced her performance, despite her mistakes.

Sorry, didn't check the spelling (English version). In Russian it's "фавн" as in "favn", if to simply convert the letters

 

[xabia]

I wasn't getting at you personally - almost everyone makes the same mistake on this forum. Anyway I can only recognise Pectopah as Restaurant, so I congratulate you on your proficiency in the English language!

 

[xabia]

Sorry, didn't check the spelling (English version). In Russian it's "фавн" as in "favn", if to simply convert the letters

Sorry - forgot to "Reply with Quote"!

I wasn't getting at you personally - almost everyone makes the same mistake on this forum. Anyway I can only recognise Pectopah as Restaurant, so I congratulate you on your proficiency in the English language!

 

[Zhenya is DIVINE]

I wonder if Eteri will use some mind games to psyche Alina out. Zhenya is clearly her favorite and I think she will be devastated if she comes up short in PC.

 

[winky97]

I wonder if Eteri will use some mind games to psyche Alina out. Zhenya is clearly her favorite and I think she will be devastated if she comes up short in PC.

I hope Eteri is professional enough to not do this. She and her coaching staff are the ones who set this in motion.

 

[koatcue]

I wonder if Eteri will use some mind games to psyche Alina out. Zhenya is clearly her favorite and I think she will be devastated if she comes up short in PC.

I don't think it will come to this - she IS a professional, after all

 

[qwertyskates]

I doubt Mae knew that Laurine gets back to Grease program when she went for her weird LP this season. And even IF she wanted to ridicule Laurine's LP (which I doubt), that is rather low incentive to design your Oly program around it.

If they are both vying for the ONE Olympic spot, both coming from the same country, and with ONLY these two same country skaters doing a costume change (Laurine's costume change is already known since her Grease program), and one program is done like a mocking parody of costume change (come on, the boos.....)I won't preclude the possibility. A lot of people scratched their heads about Mae's FS, including me, as I forgot about Grease. And when I saw Laurine's FS, then it struck me! Even while performing her Marilyn Monroe FS, Laurine did Grease as her exhibition with costume change.

Tbh, I like Laurine as a skater but find her programs and taste questionable.

 

[AlexRus]

I am Russian, so no words about Russians vs non Russians, I may be not adequate enough.

But I do not understand why Caro is in FS ahead Loena, who skated good and nice.
In total Caro is higher than Loena because of very good SP, but her FS was a disaster.

And about Alina vs Zhenya - nothing is solved, both are extremely good skaters of about the same level, Zhenya is better in components Alina is better technically. Zhenya competed first time after injury and I hope than she will skate better soon. I am fan of both, and I hope they will skate clean and who will be higher in future competitions - it is unpredictable.

I was so nervous when they both skated FS and I wanted so much clean skating for both.
Alina's skating was absolutely amazing technically - highest possible BV without 3A, very high quality of elements.
Zhenya even not in best state deserved higher PCS.
If there were only one of them - winner with huge gap to second place. Because they were both I believe Alina was a bit better.

 

[David21]

? And because of these qualities her LP was judged as 3rd of the night? She should have lost LP to Sotskova, Hendrickx and maybe even Schott. These qualities should never ever compensate for 2 triples technical content.

Her LP was judged 4th of the night, not 3rd. She was third overall because of her excellent SP, which was arguably underscored. And she didn't have a 2 triples content. She had 3 clean triples. But to answer your initial question...yes, those qualities are important in figure skating since it is not only a jumping contest.

 

[qwertyskates]

Medvedeva - warm up, Etery, FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRFMtM28uIw&t=101s
Zagitova - warm up, Etery, FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWDuz7Y_KyM&t=93s
Sotskova vs Kostner FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoDqQg6ZFO4

Poor Zagi...:sad21:

It makes me want to root for her more. :luv17::agree:

Even with a more error-prone FS, I do think Kostner outskated Sotskova in the other elements, and rightfully won with the higher SP score.

 

[qwertyskates]

I went back to take a good look at Tara's Olympic gold medal FS that was repeatedly mentioned to see what it was like in the good old days when it wasn't just about the jumps like today's Russian jumping beans, and found that almost 80% of the programs were dedicated to setting up jumps - from the beginning till the end, crossovers, a few moves, crossovers, jump, rinse, repeat...

It was even MORE about the jumps in those days, and a lot of time was spent telegraphing, preparing, and the pauses were so long. In contrast, in Kostner's, Zagi's and Med's programs, there were a lot of entertaining and engaging transitions, dance movements, creative steps and positions, variations in tempo, in distribution of elements, I love how the sport has evolved!

 

[David21]

It was even MORE about the jumps in those days, and a lot of time was spent telegraphing, preparing, and the pauses were so long. In contrast, in Kostner's, Zagi's and Med's programs, there were a lot of entertaining and engaging transitions, dance movements, creative steps and positions, variations in tempo, in distribution of elements, I love how the sport has evolved!

WAIT...you tell me that Kostner does have transitions in her LP? But that goes against everything that I've read and against the mantra that gets repeated here all the time