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Congratulations to Liza for making it to the final! Kihira was just amazing! So happy to see Mariah skate well!
2018 NHK Ladies Free Skate
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She should have been there, to put that olive crown on Rika's head.
by skating at Japan and getting home GOEs
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- Feb 14, 2018
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Just finished watching the women's programs, what a great competition!
Congrats to Rika, loved her performace!
Very close between Liza and Satoko. I have to put my opinion with those who agree with the outcome as it is, Satoko for silver and Liza for bronze.
Thrilled for Mariah Carey Bell. Is it just me, or is there something different about her this season? Even when she doesn't skate cleanly, it seems like there is a spark or something extra there now, that wasn't there before.
Congrats to Rika, loved her performace!
Very close between Liza and Satoko. I have to put my opinion with those who agree with the outcome as it is, Satoko for silver and Liza for bronze.
Thrilled for Mariah Carey Bell. Is it just me, or is there something different about her this season? Even when she doesn't skate cleanly, it seems like there is a spark or something extra there now, that wasn't there before.
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- Mar 3, 2018
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I can see both sides of the Satoko vs. Elizaveta debate, though fortunately this is one where both are guaranteed Finalists so there's no big downside to either outcome.
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- Jul 5, 2018
PCS score? do you people even watch the actual competition before commenting?
Satoko and Liza were both at 76 in the short program so both going clean, Satoko would win with higher pcs score (liza's was at 66, satoko at 71). Even with several URs & unclear edges calls she was gonna win with the help of PCS score alone. Or do you want to argue that Liza deserved higher pcs score than Satoko or something?
She was underscored in PCS IMO. Only 71–less than 9 on average.
Yeah... that would've been nice.
PCS score? do you people even watch the actual competition before commenting?
Satoko and Liza were both at 76 in the short program so both going clean, Satoko would win with higher pcs score (liza's was at 66, satoko at 71). Even with several URs & unclear edges calls she was gonna win with the help of PCS score alone. Or do you want to argue that Liza deserved higher pcs score than Satoko or something?
GOE on most jumps were too high and some jumps didn't get an underrotation, for instance the Flip and one of the Lutzes. I'd give Satoko Liza's PCS for TES (around 66) and maybe 74-75 for PCS. That would have been fair. For me the FS is similar to the SP: Liza wins by a small margin because of the technical prowess. Satoko earned more GOE for her 3Lo than Liza. That is a disgrace to the sport.
Just a couple things about the event and the debate:
1. It was excellent and that should be the headline!!
:hap57:
2. The judges do not do direct comparison scores between competitors. Yes, they compare but it's not like they wait for everyone to finish and then decide their scores.
3. We keep acting like #2 is true and we know it is not. :ddevil:
4. Even assuming #2 was true I fail to see the highway robbery. In an ideal world we would probably want to see more relative distance between Satoko and Liza in their jumps but we should also want to see more relative distance between their PCS. Not to mention that there are spins and footwork at well, which Satoko is generally better at.
5. Taking all of that into account you would have a close competition between Satoko and Liza. That's exactly what happened. One prevailed in the short and the other in the long but by tight margins.
6. Feel free to criticize Satoko for her jumps, but all of this talk about her not deserving her placings is a false narrative. :confused2:
1. It was excellent and that should be the headline!!
:hap57:2. The judges do not do direct comparison scores between competitors. Yes, they compare but it's not like they wait for everyone to finish and then decide their scores.
3. We keep acting like #2 is true and we know it is not. :ddevil:
4. Even assuming #2 was true I fail to see the highway robbery. In an ideal world we would probably want to see more relative distance between Satoko and Liza in their jumps but we should also want to see more relative distance between their PCS. Not to mention that there are spins and footwork at well, which Satoko is generally better at.
5. Taking all of that into account you would have a close competition between Satoko and Liza. That's exactly what happened. One prevailed in the short and the other in the long but by tight margins.
6. Feel free to criticize Satoko for her jumps, but all of this talk about her not deserving her placings is a false narrative. :confused2:
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- Apr 26, 2018
In PCS. Liza has the 3A and better execution of jumps but contrary to everyone‘s belief Satoko does NOT underrotate every single jump. Her jumps are tiny but she rotates so quickly that they are mostly all the way around. The only jump that looked borderline/UR to me that wasn’t called here was the 3T on her combo. That’s ONE jump. She got unclear edge calls on both lutzes and an UR call on her 2A and the 2Lo in the three jump combo. So, no, there was absolutely no home advantage. I know that most people prefer big jumpers over tiny jumpers but there is no rule where it says you have to jump big whatsoever - the only thing Satoko won‘t get is the bullet point in GOE for great height and distance. Other than that Liza doesn‘t do a 3F in the FS, her skating skills are significantly weaker and her interpretation as well as transitions aren‘t as good as Satoko‘s. I think the placements were absolutely correct. They would have been unfair had Satoko been pushed in front of Rika. But now the top 3 are well deserved and in the right order.
Overall, WHAT AN AMAZING EVENT. The top 3 were all literally flawless in their own way in the FS. I love Liza - she‘s so ready to slay this season and always skates with so much confidence. If she can up her technical content and add some transitions, she can totally challenge for a medal at worlds. Maybe repeat 2015 feat?
Satoko was as sublime as ever. It‘s just a miracle how she manages to be so consistent, especially since she had to skate after BOTH Rika and Liza who put down phenomenal skates. Many would have let this kind of pressure get to them. Not Satoko. Her jumps looked a bit more secure to me at SA, that‘s why she scored lower here. But still: Amazing performances and a deserved silver medal! Which means:
LIZA AND SATTON IN THE GFP!!
And of course: Rika! Wow. She nailed those 3As and even one in combo! The commentators were totally amazed by her, said they had just watched history. That this is what ladies’ senior skating is going to look like in the future - that it’s a revolution and Rika just made the first step towards it. I totally agree! She was breathtaking. I love that she‘s not solely about those ultra-c elements but actually takes time to interpret the program as well. She has still a long way to go there but if she‘s so good already, at such a young age, just imagine how much better she‘ll be in just a few years! Hoping she can keep this up - she already looks a lot more confident and consistent this season.
(On another note... now I‘m even more afraid for Zhenya at IdF...
)Eunsoo: Poor darling, that fall on the 3S looked scary. Overall, the program is still challenging her, it‘s a difficult one to interpret and she‘s only 15! But she did a great job nonetheless, even though she was a bit stiff. It will become better once she‘s got more confidence. Also her jump layout seemed a bit confusing. But the commentators were smitten by her. Said they had never seen a girl having so much of an it-factor at only 15. I agree. If she keeps improving, she‘ll be a star. She just needs to not let nerves get to her so much.
Mariah: I love her and her programs. She always skates with so many genuine emotions, it‘s amazing to watch and gives me chills. I was so happy for her and her reaction of utter joy and relief was so nice to watch!
Mai: Poor girl, she never seems to have luck with the assignments. She was solid. She seems like a nice girl, she‘s got good skating skills and is very consistent but the it-factor Eunsoo has is missing with her. Maybe it‘s the programs, maybe it’s the tough competition that always pushes her to the side but I never seem to remember her performances. I hope she gets better packaging in the future and manages to shine.
Alena: Solid outing, especially if you consider she shouldn‘t even have been there. That woman is a fighter! Her programs might not be my favourite ones but I just have to admire her strength, determination and dedication to this sport.
But the judges really can't help in small margin decisions. There are too many people and too many inputs to make it work. On one day Liza would win and on another Satoko would. The truth is that their scores are within the margin of error and they should be tied. Unfortunately ties do not work we in competitions.
We would need an ordinal system to achieve the level of definitiveness you're looking for and people loved to complain about 6.0.
BTW: Who has seen the B ESP Version of Mariah Bell and lmao'd at "Let's hope it's the start of something big for Mariah Carey" 
PCS score? do you people even watch the actual competition before commenting?
Satoko and Liza were both at 76 in the short program so both going clean, Satoko would win with higher pcs score (liza's was at 66, satoko at 71). Even with several URs & unclear edges calls she was gonna win with the help of PCS score alone. Or do you want to argue that Liza deserved higher pcs score than Satoko or something?
yep we do.
We see the tiny jumps. We see the boring programs, movements not held long enough and so on.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Can you point out to me where exactly in the rules it’s stated that it‘s mandatory to jump big? Her jumps are tiny, yes, but better rotated than last year. It doesn‘t matter how high you jump as long as you get all the way around. Satoko was marked on her URs and got unclear edge calls.
Boring programs? That‘s pretty subjective. I for example love her interpretation and to me her programs are not boring at all. Movements not held long enough? Satoko holds her movements longer than a lot of skaters these days.
Liza should be ahead of her in jumps because she is significantly better. But at everything else, Satoko beats her. Spins, steps, transitions, interpretation, skating skills. I’m a fan of both of them and I think the placements are fair. It was a tiny lead Satoko had over Liza anyway, it‘s not like she beat her by a big margin or something.
I don't think that Liza should have been 2nd necessarily because of FS (even if Satoko's TES stills too high), but because of SP. Liza should have had more lead and that would have save her 2nd place. Yes Satoko could have get 37 PCS at least, but IMO her TES shouldn't have been higher than 36. Her combo could have get an UR call and her jumps GOEs could have been lower.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
You’re not crazy. I think Chicago is just an odd vehicle and a bit beyond her age range, at least if you’re going to use Nowadays (“You can even marry Harry but mess around with Ike”). Roxie is meant to be a charismatic, “warm,” engaging character — Chicago is very tongue-in-cheek, not just “SERVE FACE HERE,” and Roxie is pretty much a send-up of the stereotypical hero and hero’s journey. The heart actually isn’t egregious choreo, so much as that it’s really awkward in terms of how Eunsoo is portraying Roxie. Roxie herself would totally blow a kiss and go for heart hands in the middle of a murder spree (or murder serenade). You need to bring out that warmth and charm in the character for the music to work.
At the risk of inviting even more Yuna comparisons, Bond would have been a better fit for Eunsoo. Not Bond girl — Bond. (Which is why I think Yuna’s and Wakaba’s programmes are so iconic, tangentially: they weren’t Bond girls. They were Bond.) She has the face-serving for a Bond-style programme, and it would allow her to develop her flirty side and drama chops. Roxie... is just not believable at the moment, though I don’t think it’s a crazy choice. But what Eunsoo is missing is the ingenue quality and the irony of the character, which is why I find her Roxie so joyless and lifeless. Roxie is fun, she’s charming, she’s conniving as all get out but she is, ultimately, who you’re meant to root for as the audience.
Even Hindi Sad Diamonds from Moulin Rouge (I know, another warhorse) would be a better fit than Chicago while in the same wheelhouse. Satine isn’t as nuanced a character as Roxie, frankly, and Hindi Sad Diamonds isn’t a warm, triumphant number — it’s bombastic but dark. I don’t think Eunsoo is ready for a tango, but something that leans tango could work and help her develop her performance chops. A soundtrack isn’t a bad start, really: give Eunsoo a clear character so she can expand her range and expand her performance range. But Roxie ... really requires the skater to have a strong connection with the audience to work, and Eunsoo is still so young. The end result is very junior high theatre. :|
I actually think Eunsoo and Liz should swap programmes (and I love Liz’s free on her). Liz needs a stronger, character-driven programme and Eunsoo needs the vibe of Liz’s programme but not a character as layered as Roxie. Or, if she wanted to go a completely opposite direction, why not pull from Jane Austen? (Am I the only one who read her novels as a pre-teen?) Emma, Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice — lots of age-appropriate but not flat female characters to channel there, plenty of great soundtrack choices, narrative arcs, etc.
http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU 2186 S&P 2018-19.pdf
1) very good height and very good length (of all jumps in a combo or sequence)
2) good take-off and landing
3) effortless throughout (including rhythm in Jump combination)
4) steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry
5) very good body position from take-off to landing
6) element matches the music
The rules changed this year. You must achieve the first three bullets before you can get points for the following three. According to the rules Satoko shouldn't be getting more than 2's. "1's" would be more accurate.
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Not exactly...you need to achieve the first three before getting +4 or +5. You can get any three bullets in any order to achieve +3 but you have to achieve the first three to surpass that.
IMO...she doesn’t qualify for bullet 5 either really. She’s a good candidate for 4 and 6 though. I think the real question is to what degree do her jumps actualy inspire negative GOE for poor execution of some of those earlier bullets. It’s an interesting discussion that I think is going to continue as long as she is being scored among the top.
