2018 Olympic Season: Ice Dance

[Barb]

yes, I am curious how W/P will score outside Canada, I dont think their skating was so good like their scores.

By the way, Ice dance for this season is already being discussed in this thread https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?66093-2018-Olympic-Season-Ice-Dance/page12

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Edited Because: I made a post saying Chock/Bates had already beaten Bobrova/Soloviev if they win at least bronze in France, but I was wrong about that. Bobrova/Soloviev's Rosetelecom score is higher than C/B's score at CoC. Even if Weaver/Poje win bronze in France, their scores from Skate Canada will beat Bobrova/Soloviev in a tie break. Things get tricky if Stepanova/Bukin surprisingly win silver in France, then there's another team to add to the tie break group and most likely whichever between W/P and C/B place fourth will be out of the running.

 

[bramweld]

NHK Trophy for dance will be really entertaining on many fronts;
1. How will Tessa and Scott respond to the scores, albeit I think inflated that P/C received at COC? Or will they just conserve their
energy for the competition at hand. What's the point I say save your energies for February!

2. Just how will C/L and H/D fare? I find the SD of Anna and Luca more compelling than their FD, and I think similarly about
H/D's material. But more importantly what do the judges think.

3. How tight will be the competition between FB/S and S/K? I love the Danes especially their SD, (the FD is growing on me
though) but they have had issues with putting out their FD cleanly. As for SinKats, I find Zhulin has not done as good a job of
showing off their strengths as Marina did. His material just seems to highlight the differences in their skills rather than hide
them Also their Senior B in Minsk was incredibly embarrassing. So, judges will likely be looking at how they recover from
that.

I think COC pretty much panned out as expected.

 

[Skater Boy]

At this point I just don't think V and M can beat P/C. Not that I agree they shouldn't; but the pcs imho are way too high for PC. There are 9 teams fighitng realistically for 3 medals P/C; V and M, the Shibsibs, Chock and Bates, C and L, Weapo, Hubell and Donohoe, B/S and G and P. That does not include if C and B or S and B get a bump up. We have so many world medallists going to the olympics most likely - V and M; P/C, C and B, Shibibs, C and L, Weapo and B/S are all former medallists. 7 teams.

 

[Anyasnake]

At this point I just don't think V and M can beat P/C.

I remember last year when after Skate Canada and TDF people thought V/M didn't stand a chance. Seeing statements like this makes me wonder sometimes and people forget that so easily.
Since I'm a P/C fan (also V/M fan but prefer P/C) I'll say this : V/M haven't lost to P/C once. Scores can't compare from one competition to another, and that 200-mark would have been elusive if V/M got 198 and P/C got 199. (You can't deny that it creates a lot of buzz online for the French but that doesn't change anything for the competition)

V/M will probably break 200 this weekend. But they need to skate clean - No bobbles on step sequences or it's 1.5 points gone without GOEs (!!).

 

[blackey]

I remember last year when after Skate Canada and TDF people thought V/M didn't stand a chance. Seeing statements like this makes me wonder sometimes and people forget that so easily.
Since I'm a P/C fan (also V/M fan but prefer P/C) I'll say this : V/M haven't lost to P/C once. Scores can't compare from one competition to another, and that 200-mark would have been elusive if V/M got 198 and P/C got 199. (You can't deny that it creates a lot of buzz online for the French but that doesn't change anything for the competition)

V/M will probably break 200 this weekend. But they need to skate clean - No bobbles on step sequences or it's 1.5 points gone without GOEs (!!).

v/m haven't lost to p/c once is only because p/c haven't skate clean when they were against v/m, and I don't think people considered this when they made their prediction. There was no real battle last season so I don't really think the results mean that much by now. I personally agree with you that scores can't be compare from different competitions, but I just don't think that's how it works in ice dance.
Maybe it is too early to tell, however as currently speaking, I'm really seeing p/c winning the thing as well.

 

[Vera Costa]

v/m haven't lost to p/c once is only because p/c haven't skate clean when they were against v/m, and I don't think people considered this when they made their prediction.

But the one time P/C beat V/M in the FD last season, V/M weren't clean either.

I know scores across competitions aren't really comparable but if you look at the protocols of ACI vs CoC, VM have the higher PCS. By 0.02 and 0.14.

The difference came down to the TES. In the SD, VM were all L4's but P/C had an L3 for the no touch step sequence. In the FD, P/C had an L3 for their circular stsq, but V/M had L3's on both stsqs. Hence the 2 pt differential.

 

[Anyasnake]

v/m haven't lost to p/c once is only because p/c haven't skate clean when they were against v/m, and I don't think people considered this when they made their prediction. There was no real battle last season so I don't really think the results mean that much by now. I personally agree with you that scores can't be compare from different competitions, but I just don't think that's how it works in ice dance.
Maybe it is too early to tell, however as currently speaking, I'm really seeing p/c winning the thing as well.

Actually when you don't skate clean, you can't just say that you could have won because you didn't. Skating clean is part of the competition. There was a battle last year, but we could never really see it much because P/C almost choked every time facing V/M (especially at NHK...). Now, not having the world champion pressure yet winning the FD, hiring a mental coach and putting things into perspective, I expect a full-on competition. However, both teams know how to make a lot of silly mistakes (Looking at you Guillaume and Scott : don't fall at the end your step sequences :dev2.

Momentum is a factor, that is true. P/C had a lot of momentum in 2015 and won worlds. Shibs too in 2016 and rose to silver. At the end of 2017, I'd say H/D with their 3rd place in the SD captured a lot too.
I like the fact that this quad was not predetermined... Everybody thought it will be Chock/Bates vs WeaPo vs C/L. Doors were so openned, it's not common for Ice Dance where you have to wait for your turn. That made things so much more exciting. (And this has been by far my favourite quad in Ice Dance ever)

 

[Mango]

Momentum...

All this momentum is setting one team up for gold all the way to 2022.

We'll have some interesting predictions games for silver and bronze for the next four seasons.

I wonder if that's exciting? Who will be the runner up this time around, we'll ask. There could be a revolving door to make things interesting and keep various fans & federations happy. We must minimize staleness in figure skating, after all.

Or the interest in ice dance could wane with not much competition at the top and teams homogenizing. A younger set of teams will be relied upon to pull viewers in in some countries like Russia and Canada. Their struggles will be magnified under the eyes of fans looking for them to emulate the greats of the past.

But first, we go through the rituals of this Olympic season.

 

[Purv]

But the one time P/C beat V/M in the FD last season, V/M weren't clean either.

I know scores across competitions aren't really comparable but if you look at the protocols of ACI vs CoC, VM have the higher PCS. By 0.02 and 0.14.

The difference came down to the TES. In the SD, VM were all L4's but P/C had an L3 for the no touch step sequence. In the FD, P/C had an L3 for their circular stsq, but V/M had L3's on both stsqs. Hence the 2 pt differential.

Do you seriously think judges could get V/m better score than 119 on last worlds? No way. V/t, even clean had no right to beat french that night. v/t was overscored actually, they got 10s in PCS..which is unacceptable when skater does a mistake like Scott.Sorry. They should get 114,115 in Fd, but some judges got scared and started to throw 10s without any reason

And btw if frech did clean twizzles as always and got 1,5 points more in sd because of it, even with level3 on both stepseq, they could be the winners. Shame

 

[Mango]

Do you seriously think judges could get V/m better score than 119 on last worlds? No way. V/t, even clean had no right to beat french that night. v/t was overscored actually, they got 10s in PCS..which is unacceptable when skater does a mistake like Scott.Sorry. They should get 114,115 in Fd, but some judges got scared and started to throw 10s without any reason

And btw if frech did clean twizzles as always and got 1,5 points more in sd because of it, even with level3 on both stepseq, they could be the winners. Shame

The ISU rule is no 10s in PCS for a fall. This rule is sometimes ignored, however in this case there was no fall.

 

[Purv]

The ISU rule is no 10s in PCS for a fall. This rule is sometimes ignored, however in this case there was no fall.

He lost his balance, he almost fell, he was on his knee. The element they performed , executed was not clean

 

[Mango]

He lost his balance, he almost fell, he was on his knee. The element they performed , executed was not clean

I've had this discussion a few times before but there wasn't even consensus among the judges that the stumble happened on an element. That's why the GOEs are split and some judges decided to reflect that in the PCS. Some commentators said they were done their element. Almost fell ≠ fell. Javier Fernandez would attest to that.

 

[Purv]

I've had this discussion a few times before but there wasn't even consensus among the judges that the stumble happened on an element. That's why the GOEs are split and some judges decided to reflect that in the PCS. Some commentators said they were done their element. Almost fell ≠ fell. Javier Fernandez would attest to that.

The choreo, ok now? I know it was not element like step seq , then they would ve got -GOE.It doesnt matter actually, in PCS there shouldnt be ten's

 

[Anyasnake]

The ISU rule is no 10s in PCS for a fall. This rule is sometimes ignored, however in this case there was no fall.

I think I saw in the rules (ISU book) major mistake OR fall.
Anyway, I thought that they shouldn't have got any 10s either, or +3 GOEs on the Cist. Doesn't mean they don't deserve the title (They do, the French made too many mistakes on the SD).
We could debate all day but that's unecessary really I stop.

Off Topic @Mango : Talking about Beijing 2022 (I know , WAAAY too soon ) I foresee a French - US - Russian (perhaps) battle for the gold and I would dare to add the Danes in it. They're SO good.
Edit : That Javi fall is the best "no fall" ever though.

 

[shine]

I feel almsot silly talking about the elements and numbers when it comes to P/C. IMO V/M are great skatesr/ice dancers/atheletes and I enjoy watching them immensely also, but P/C are real artists, in every sense of the word, however cliche it may sound. There, my absolutely untechnical ice dance commentary.

 

[icetigger]

I feel almsot silly talking about the elements and numbers when it comes to P/C. IMO V/M are great skatesr/ice dancers/atheletes and I enjoy watching them immensely also, but P/C are real artists, in every sense of the word, however cliche it may sound. There, my absolutely untechnical ice dance commentary.

One of the things I find funny about V/M skating to Moulin Rouge is that the film is about a couple of French artists. No-one really seems to remember that, or that the idea that underpinned the romance in the film was a shared belief in a set of values, which are used to inform artistic creation, that is much better exemplified by Papadakis and Cizeron's approach to ice dance.

 

[ice coverage]

... P/C are real artists, in every sense of the word ...

Virtue/Moir are real artists as well :yes:.

 

[icetigger]

Virtue/Moir are real artists as well :yes:.

Disagree.......

 

[Cherry blossom]

Disagree.......

Really? REALLY? are you serious? name me one program of P/C that come's close to V/M's carmen, Umberalls of cherbourg, Pink Floyd, Mounlin rough, Prince and Manhler's artistry and athletism? I can't believe I have just read that disgraceful comment. good lord.