2018 US Championships Sr. Pairs FS

[blue_idealist]

I guess I'm the killjoy here as I was hoping Kayne/O'Shea would win today. I'm sick of the Knierems going to one international comp after another and either one or the other of them splatting on the s/b/s jumps. After all these years? Why focus on other elements when they haven't even mastered the synchronized s/b/s jumps, the truly hardest part of pairs skating? You just don't move on to quad throw twists until you've mastered those synchronized jumps, IMO, because that's what pairs is initially all about...two skating as one. For all the folks who are tired of Ashley underrotating, just count me as one who's extremely tired of these two who can't successfully jump alongside each other.

I was kinda hoping Kayne/O'Shea would win, too, although I think the Knierims might have been sent to the Olympics anyhow.

 

[reneerose]

I was kinda hoping Kayne/O'Shea would win, too, although I think the Knierims might have been sent to the Olympics anyhow.

What if the Kayne/O'Shea did win the National title, but the Knierims were still sent to the Olympics? Sounds like it would have been a good compromise, but then the media and fan outrage would maybe have been stirred up. :shocked: So impressive comebacks for both pair couples though after their serious health issues.

 

[blue_idealist]

What if the Kayne/O'Shea did win the National title, but the Knierims were still sent to the Olympics? Sounds like it would have been a good compromise, but then the media and fan outrage would maybe have been stirred up. :shocked: So impressive comebacks for both pair couples though after their serious health issues.

I think the Knierims would've probably been sent based on their 'body of work' especially with K/O just coming back from being off, but some people wouldn't have been happy.

 

[TCAngel18]

I guess I'm the killjoy here as I was hoping Kayne/O'Shea would win today. I'm sick of the Knierems going to one international comp after another and either one or the other of them splatting on the s/b/s jumps. After all these years? Why focus on other elements when they haven't even mastered the synchronized s/b/s jumps, the truly hardest part of pairs skating? You just don't move on to quad throw twists until you've mastered those synchronized jumps, IMO, because that's what pairs is initially all about...two skating as one. For all the folks who are tired of Ashley underrotating, just count me as one who's extremely tired of these two who can't successfully jump alongside each other.

Because the side by side jumps are only 2 out of 12 scored elements, and are actually not the big point getters. It goes, Lifts, Twist, then Throw Jumps And SBS jumps, but the SBS jumps are usually lower, because it’s easier to do a throw Triple Flip than a SBS Triple Flip.

The Knierims have better amplitude in most other pair elements over Kayne/O’Shea, except that K/S are more consistent on their jumps. Bigger amplitude means higher GOE.

One prime example is the Quad Twist. Even at a Triple, the Knierims have a Top 5 in the world Twist. Probably only the Germans, the top 2 Chinese Pairs and Tarasova/Morozov beat them on it. Now Alexa and Chris have the Quad back (not a new element for them, they just lost it due to injury), they are going to score close to top 3 in the world on that element.

In comparison, Danny can barely Twist her a foot above his body. Yes, they get good lateral and a decent twist, but that lack of amplitude really kills them.

The other elements I can do this same comparison with, but for TL;DR purposes, I’ll move on.

There is a reason why only the Knierims and Castelli/Tran see the same range of scores both domestically, and Internationally. Even with mistakes on the jumps, their other elements are such point getters that they will still place decent internationally.

The Knierims can still get over 200 on the world stage, with merely decent performances. No other US pair team can say that.

Kayne/O’Shea, Stellato/Bartholomay and Cain/Leduc Drop Internationally, as their pair elements are overall weaker. In the case of the last two, they drop like a stone.

 

[readernick]

Honestly, some of it has to do with height. Being a tall team has some advantages, with the virtuosity of each move.

I also think that the USFSA does not like Castelli/Tran. Partially because they can't land their SBS jumps and partially because Tran is not a citizen. They really are the strongest pair in terms of PCS marks... but this whole competition has been full of "interesting" PCS judging.

- - - Updated - - -

I love Castelli and Tran, too. I think they really need a jump coach. Someone who can at least get them to rotate the jumps. Marissa is clearly psyched out and cannot rotate. Send them to summer jump camp! I also agree that Cain and LeDuc are not the future. She is pushing to be outgoing and relatable on the ice but it's not authentic. They are long and lean on the ice but it just doesn't translate for me as to any sort of excitement.

This!

 

[TCAngel18]

I also think that the USFSA does not like Castelli/Tran. Partially because they can't land their SBS jumps and partially because Tran is not a citizen. They really are the strongest pair in terms of PCS marks... but this whole competition has been full of "interesting" PCS judging.

- - - Updated - - -



This!

Partially. I think they are slightly aggravated that C/T can’t get their ish together when it comes to the jumps, and I agree about the Tran citizenship, but only for this year. Even though a 2nd team can also qualify to worlds, The narrative from these championships is all about Olympic excitement. Looking back, I think they did hold C/T back a bit in PCS, in order to drum up excitement for the ones who actually had a shot of getting that Olympic spot. Although lezbihonest, that spot was the Knierims, barring injury or an awful performance.

 

[readernick]

Partially. I think they are slightly aggravated that C/T can’t get their ish together when it comes to the jumps, and I agree about the Tran citizenship, but only for this year. Even though a 2nd team can also qualify to worlds, The narrative from these championships is all about Olympic excitement. Looking back, I think they did hold C/T back a bit in PCS, in order to drum up excitement for the ones who actually had a shot of getting that Olympic spot. Although lezbihonest, that spot was the Knierims, barring injury or an awful performance.

No doubt. The Knierims are the only team that gets decent marks on the international stage. The quality of their elements is superior to the other teams. They were always going to be the team chosen to go the Olympics. However, in international competition, Marissa and Mervin got the second highest score of any American pairs team this year. I don't think they deserved to be in consideration for worlds or the Olympics at this time but other teams here got nationals PCS inflation and they really didn't. Their international PCS is higher than all the other teams with the exception of the Knierims/ but here their PCS marks were lower than C/L, D/F, S/B. They are definitely not federation favorites

 

[ancientpeas]

I, hopped up on meds for my cold, watched this. Good lord USA: what sin did you commit to have Tara talking out her elbow about pairs skating? At least Johnny had some interesting things to say about it. Tara was just so grating.

This competition was like watching an entire nation of Lubovs (in this case Chris K. is a less bendy Lubov). Loved most of the pair elements (although some of those twists were crashy) but the SBS? Yuck.

Deanna and Nathan were my favourites. I was really happy for them. I also though K/O were fun. S-K/K are your best bets for the Olympics though. They seem to be the ones that get the PCS and they do have some lovely elements and a very nice connection on the ice.

I hope Deanna and Nathan get to go to 4CC.

 

[meem]

It irritates me that they no longer have a pairs skater commentating (I think Johnny tried pairs as a young teen, right? but that doesn't make him an expert). Tara really shouldn't be saying much at all during pairs.

Love Deanna & Nathan (esp their SP: so steady, so calm, and "quiet" vocal music).

I, hopped up on meds for my cold, watched this. Good lord USA: what sin did you commit to have Tara talking out her elbow about pairs skating? At least Johnny had some interesting things to say about it. Tara was just so grating.

*snip*
Deanna and Nathan were my favourites. I was really happy for them. I also though K/O were fun. S-K/K are your best bets for the Olympics though. They seem to be the ones that get the PCS and they do have some lovely elements and a very nice connection on the ice.

I hope Deanna and Nathan get to go to 4CC.

 

[Crossover]

It is quite remarkable that Scimeca/Knierim still can do a quad twist and maintain themselves as US No. 1 pairs after Alexa's several surgeries related to her stomach. However unfortunately, it looks like I can't expect performing qualities or unit as one for a while from them since then. It would be very difficult and is commendable for her to compete after surgeries but I've wondered where her soul was wandering throughout the programs not only at Nationals but also in the Grand Prix series. Her body movements were very sluggish and she seems to loose how to control her back and core. Not only that, her SS are regressed as well. I miss old Alexa; feisty and energetic.

Moreover, they should carefully listen to the voice that they really need to work on improving their clumsy SBS spins and jumps. The program to "Ghost" theme music is not a bad idea though as she looked like a feeble and soon-to-be vanishing ghost. It's not direct interpretation of the film, but they are free to do differently.

 

[cheerknithanson]

When is the one pair team being announced?

 

[alyssamarie]

When is the one pair team being announced?

12:45 est on icenetwork

 

[alyssamarie]

pairs team is
Knierms!

 

[blue_idealist]

pairs team is
Knierms!

I expected that, hehe, I'm more interested in who gets the other assignments.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

Congrats Alexa & Chris!

 

[alyssamarie]

I expected that, hehe, I'm more interested in who gets the other assignments.

they haven't announced that yet.


Alternates for the 2018 Olympic pairs team have been named as Tarah Kayne and Danny O’Shea (first alternate), Deanna Stellato and Nathan Bartholomay (second alternate), and Ashley Cain and Timothy LeDuc (third alternate).

 

[Andrea82]

Tarah Kayne and Danny O’Shea (first alternate), Deanna Stellato and Nathan Bartholomay (second alternate), and Ashley Cain and Timothy LeDuc (third alternate).

 

[BravesSkateFan]

Worlds/4CC/Jr Worlds selections
http://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=91148&type=media

2018 World Championships
Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea
Alexa Scimeca-Knierim/Chris Knierim


2018 Four Continents Championships
Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc
Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea
Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay



2018 World Junior Championships
Sarah Feng/TJ Nyman
Audrey Lu/Misha Mitrofanov

 

[louisa05]

In the department of "once every four year fans", someone I know is complaining on Facebook about USFSA refusing to send the 2nd and 3rd place pair teams to the Olympics. Explaining that the U.S. did not qualify for three pair spots in the Olympics has not pacified her. She feels the other two pairs are being inexplicably cheated and thinks the IOC should get involved.

Those people really make me dread the Olympic season.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

In the department of "once every four year fans", someone I know is complaining on Facebook about USFSA refusing to send the 2nd and 3rd place pair teams to the Olympics. Explaining that the U.S. did not qualify for three pair spots in the Olympics has not pacified her. She feels the other two pairs are being inexplicably cheated and thinks the IOC should get involved.

Those people really make me dread the Olympic season.

Wow...just wow.