2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[tempo]

Emma Gajieva's "Figurka" with Polina Tsurskaya:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm5uZBoRKmM

Text version:

https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...chetvernykh-medvedevoy---foto-video-instagram

 

[icetug]

Chances for what - to get an occassional medal when one of 3 Russians stumbles? I would like figure skating to be a sport of skill not a sport of chance.

Sport - each and every sport discipline - is based on actual performance, not on judging a set of potential skills. The champion is the one who wins the exact competition and not neceserilly it's always the golden medalist of previous championships. Rising to the occasion is a core of competition .

 

[nussnacker]

Emma Gajieva's "Figurka" with Polina Tsurskaya:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm5uZBoRKmM

Text version:

https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...chetvernykh-medvedevoy---foto-video-instagram

Seems like she's really enjoying her new life as a coach, so much so, she decided to put her main focus on it.
She'd be a wonderful jump specialist!

 

[Vandevska]

Emma Gajieva's "Figurka" with Polina Tsurskaya:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm5uZBoRKmM

Text version:

https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...chetvernykh-medvedevoy---foto-video-instagram

Thanks for posting this, it was a nice read! I found this part very interesting: "at the beginning of each season, all the athletes of the Russian team write a plan for the season. There are certain starts for which we declare places that we would like to take. This plan is signed by us, the coach and the FFKKR. And we must fulfill it."

I think Zhenya has mentioned it before too, but I didn't know it was as serious as to have signatures on it.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Chances for what - to get an occassional medal when one of 3 Russians stumbles? I would like figure skating to be a sport of skill not a sport of chance.

Well otherwise there would be a russian sweep every year, no? I don't think you're particularly following a lot of european ladies, and it's fine if you don't but there are a few that potentially could make it interesting this season. Girls like Loena, Viveca and Alexia aren't exactly weak. Maybe one of them even can compete TES wise next europeans, who knows . We can't set any results in stone so yes, rules are rules and if some russian girls want to make it to international competitions they must either surpass the ladies in russia or get resourceful, that's life unfortunately.

 

[Fluture]

Chances for what - to get an occassional medal when one of 3 Russians stumbles? I would like figure skating to be a sport of skill not a sport of chance.

You‘re being, frankly put, a bit too confident right now. Where was Russian ladies skating all those years before their dominance started? It‘s more of a recent phenomenon. If all the spots were given to American ladies skaters back then, where would the Russians be now? And look how things have changed. Just because Russia‘s on top now doesn‘t mean it will be forever. And besides, given that not even Euros, and especially not Worlds were having a Russian sweep in recent years, I think it’s fair to say that even Russian ladies are capable of stumbling.

And that‘s from someone who would very welcome having the Euros and 4CC Champion get an automatic entry to Worlds. Because they‘re so good and enjoyable. They‘re talented and their talent could fill 10 spots at Worlds. NOW. And that‘s the key. As much as it hurts having some of the great Russian ladies miss important championships, if you don‘t give other countries the chance to develop their skating, it’s just plain unfair. So, I don‘t think having 7 spots (or more - which would happen should all GPF finalists get an automatic entry) for Russia is sustainable or necessarily clever for the sport itself. But giving the champion of Euros and 4CC an automatic entry might very well work and would give a competition like 4CC more prestige too.

 

[Georgya]

I started wondering a bit about this after Tursynbayeva won bronze over Medvedeva; if that continues to happen or more of the "B/C Team" (as they are getting referred to in this thread) start competing for other countries and continue/start to take medals away from Russia - would Russia consider putting a rule in place like they did prior to Sochi that banned Russian coaches from coaching non-Russian athletes.

I doubt this very much. 1 - at present, there aren't many non russian skaters training in Russia which can actually "take medals" from russians. 2 - those hords of russian ladies switching for other countries which we are often discussing here are not so easy as people think. Not because Russia are keeping them prisoners, but again not all countries would receive them with their arms open. As I understood with google translate, Shabotova is not very welcomed in Ukraine, where she is considered a russian who came to steal spots from the locals 3. Training in Russia can surely help but doesn't ensure the push the rusfed has for its skaters.

Figure skating will never get popularity of tennis while it's strongest skaters are blocked from the main events just because they are from Russia or Japan, but much weaker skaters have their spots there just because they are from the countries with zero interest in figure skating.
Look at the JGP events, some skaters skate worse than 6 years old russian skaters. Is it what people want to watch?

It's more complicated than this. Figure skating doesn't have the popularity of tennis because of many reasons: global base and audience tv viewership numbers, number of professional leagues around the world/ internal competitions, tv rights deals, endorsement, sponsorship deals, average athlete salary/ revenue, social media presence etc. Having a diluted competition, with weaker skaters it's the least of its problems.

Substitutions at JGP Grand Prix de Courchevel 2019:

Kamila Valieva and Maya Khromykh

http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat03109474.htm

It can be a very good strategy.

Zhenya's Olympics SP on the Olympic YouTube channel finally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4cNQMWdzU :luv17::luv17::luv17::luv17::luv17:

Also Zhenya about our beloved juniors, as per Google Translate: "It was very nice to look at our juniors. Congratulations on your great rental and the start of the competition season. We will cheer for you! Good luck on the upcoming starts!"

^Taken from: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Dl0YJokIO/

I'm very proud of Evgenia for posting that message about the juniors. That's the attitude seniors should have about the younger generation. It helps both camps, seniors are pushed to evolve, juniors to reach for them

 

[tempo]

More interviews taken by Olga Ermolina after junior's test skates:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDUtVEy6dcIS0NsC9Uex8hQ/videos?disable_polymer=1

Maya Khromykh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t74L1WAVbL8

Daria Usacheva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWBhu7qrcyU

Alyona Kanysheva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffgfd6LHdQU

Ksenia Sinitsyna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-e5y7Dgg1Y

 

[Tolstoj]

I hope that Sinitsina builds the character for big international competitions, because she is lovely and talented.
Last year, due to Kostornaya’s injury, Sinitsina had the chance to go JW and shine, but missed it. The judges weren‘t very nice to her, but she made mistakes and looked nervous and less impressive than at domestic competitions. I really hope she overcomes her nerves and shows what she is capable of. With this level of competition in Russia, she cannot afford any mistakes.

If you ask me she was better than Ting Cui, so i don't think it's fair to say that she missed a chance.

Technically Kseniia Sinitsyna had more difficult programs, both SP and FP with all combos in the bonus. GOE wise she has better spins, interesting transitions in and out, the first 3S is an unexpected entry.

Ting Cui had 2 very frontloaded programs, lots of crossovers to set up elements, little to none transitions. Yes jumps are nice and big but in an empty programs, it's hard for me to understand those +4 and +5 considering the judging criteria for over +3 do require those unexpected entries and difficult transitions.

Components were nonsense, especially in the free program that gap was so stupid. This is what i'd have given:

Skating Skills: Kseniia Sinitsyna. She has far better edge control and turn quality, better showcase of multidirectional skating. Ting had more speed and better posture but LOTS of 2 foot skating and shallow edges, she almost stumbled during a turn in the free.

Transitions: Kseniia Sinitsyna. It's all explained above, more difficult transitions, creative entries, spread eagle, less crossovers. Ting's free program was so empty.

Performance/Execution: Ting Cui or Kseniia Sinitsyna. Ting was more emotionally involved into both performances, Kseniia was a bit stone face in the free. Although some may argue Ting's fell on the 3flip, which should have an impact on the execution, since the fall was certainly not planned and the audience gasped, on the other hand Kseniia didn't fall, and managed to pull out her 3-3 combo at the end of the program (UR but landed), so this depends on how you value a fall in performance (it used to be a rule for decades in figure skating, now judges don't care).

Choreography/Composition:Kseniia Sinitsyna. While i liked Ting's SP a lot, i want to point out that the two programs from Ting were extremely samey in style of music, pattern, movements, concept and mood. Kseniia's SP and FP were on completely different styles with different choreographies and more original patterns.

Interpretation: Ting Cui. she was more expressive than Kseniia, but like i said i noticed an overwhelming repetition of movements between the two programs. Kseniia's interpretation was better in the SP, free was very much all business.

I encourage you to rewatch both programs.

Ting Cui
SP
FP

Kseniia Sinitsyna
SP
FP

 

[Baron Vladimir]

And that‘s from someone who would very welcome having the Euros and 4CC Champion get an automatic entry to Worlds. Because they‘re so good and enjoyable. They‘re talented and their talent could fill 10 spots at Worlds. NOW. And that‘s the key. As much as it hurts having some of the great Russian ladies miss important championships, if you don‘t give other countries the chance to develop their skating, it’s just plain unfair. So, I don‘t think having 7 spots (or more - which would happen should all GPF finalists get an automatic entry) for Russia is sustainable or necessarily clever for the sport itself. But giving the champion of Euros and 4CC an automatic entry might very well work and would give a competition like 4CC more prestige too.

I agree with that. For Worlds it is fine to have 3 quota places per country (+ one potential 'continental' winner, which can make 4 participants per country), for Olympics max 3 is fine (with no chances for 4 places). However, Grand prix competition should not be dictated by country spots. Let the best compete there (even all competitors came from Russia and Japan, but there should be a competition where your personal results - seasons bests are the most important thing to look at). The rest can compete at Challengers. I don't see the reason why competitions outside Olympics, Worlds and Euro/4CC should be dictated by country spots :confused2:

 

[[email protected]]

Russia hasn’t sweep the podium for the past three year.

So apparently those stumbles happen enough...

Or maybe they aren’t as skilled at competing when it matters as you’d like to think.

Sport - each and every sport discipline - is based on actual performance, not on judging a set of potential skills. The champion is the one who wins the exact competition and not neceserilly it's always the golden medalist of previous championships. Rising to the occasion is a core of competition .

Well otherwise there would be a russian sweep every year, no? I don't think you're particularly following a lot of european ladies, and it's fine if you don't but there are a few that potentially could make it interesting this season. Girls like Loena, Viveca and Alexia aren't exactly weak. Maybe one of them even can compete TES wise next europeans, who knows . We can't set any results in stone so yes, rules are rules and if some russian girls want to make it to international competitions they must either surpass the ladies in russia or get resourceful, that's life unfortunately.

I am not sure if you replied to what I wrote. Your replies just support my thesis. And, yes, it's quite a recent phenomenon. But this year with 3As going senior and no quotas one would have to expect too many stumbles from the Russians to have Viveca or Loena at the European podium...with all due respect

 

[Vandevska]

If you ask me she was better than Ting Cui, so i don't think it's fair to say that she missed a chance.

Technically Kseniia Sinitsyna had more difficult programs, both SP and FP with all combos in the bonus. GOE wise she has better spins, interesting transitions in and out, the first 3S is an unexpected entry.

Ting Cui had 2 very frontloaded programs, lots of crossovers to set up elements, little to none transitions. Yes jumps are nice and big but in an empty programs, it's hard for me to understand those +4 and +5 considering the judging criteria for over +3 do require those unexpected entries and difficult transitions.

Components were nonsense, especially in the free program that gap was so stupid. This is what i'd have given:

Skating Skills: Kseniia Sinitsyna. She has far better edge control and turn quality, better showcase of multidirectional skating. Ting had more speed and better posture but LOTS of 2 foot skating and shallow edges, she almost stumbled during a turn in the free.

Transitions: Kseniia Sinitsyna. It's all explained above, more difficult transitions, creative entries, spread eagle, less crossovers. Ting's free program was so empty.

Performance/Execution: Ting Cui or Kseniia Sinitsyna. Ting was more emotionally involved into both performances, Kseniia was a bit stone face in the free. Although some may argue Ting's fell on the 3flip, which should have an impact on the execution, since the fall was certainly not planned and the audience gasped, on the other hand Kseniia didn't fall, and managed to pull out her 3-3 combo at the end of the program (UR but landed), so this depends on how you value a fall in performance (it used to be a rule for decades in figure skating, now judges don't care).

Choreography/Composition:Kseniia Sinitsyna. While i liked Ting's SP a lot, i want to point out that the two programs from Ting were extremely samey in style of music, pattern, movements, concept and mood. Kseniia's SP and FP were on completely different styles with different choreographies and more original patterns.

Interpretation: Ting Cui. she was more expressive than Kseniia, but like i said i noticed an overwhelming repetition of movements between the two programs. Kseniia's interpretation was better in the SP, free was very much all business.

I encourage you to rewatch both programs.

Ting Cui
SP
FP

Kseniia Sinitsyna
SP
FP

PCS aren't exactly the deciding factor for the juniors. For the SP Ksenia was dinged due to starting way earlier, but she lost not only to Ting in the FS, but to Yuna Shriraiwa and Young You too. Here's the protocol: http://www.isuresults.com/results/s...OR----FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

 

[Ziotic]

I am not sure if you replied to what I wrote. Your replies just support my thesis. And, yes, it's quite a recent phenomenon. But this year with 3As going senior and no quotas one would have to expect too many stumbles from the Russians to have Viveca or Loena at the European podium...with all due respect

That’s what they said the last 3 years...and still no sweeps at GPF, Europeans or worlds.

If Russia was really so dominant they should have been sweeping all those podiums.

 

[Vandevska]

Well, let's see what happens in the future. Who knows, maybe if the JGP outcomes fully translates to the GPF, then they'll consider the change

Also, I had to share this: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1E1BHGnRBE/?igshid=jnk66nz499xt

:bigrin: [emoji3]

 

[dante]

not all countries would receive them with their arms open. As I understood with google translate, Shabotova is not very welcomed in Ukraine, where she is considered a russian who came to steal spots from the locals

Another example is Alexander Majorov who brought Sweden the first ISU medal in 74 years, but he had to skip the Olympics because Sweden basically refused to pay for his trip to Pyeongchang.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

That’s what they said the last 3 years...and still no sweeps at GPF, Europeans or worlds.

If Russia was really so dominant they should have been sweeping all those podiums.

They will be probably sweeping all those podiums if they have one more represent per competitions, according to statistics. So your argument is not helping to this debate eather. The best solution i see is to make a competion - Grand prix is a perfect vehicle (i agree that Worlds and Olympics are not) - to express that belonging to a particular nation is not the most important thing in this sport, but your personal results. If you can see that point, perhaps.

 

[SkateSkates]

2 weeks after worlds hold another event for the top 24 SB. No age or country limits, so top juniors can take place as long as they are in the top 24 SB. All skaters will skate to Senior requirements.

Hold the event in Russia or Japan with a huge $$$ prize so skaters are incentivized to participate.

 

[Ziotic]

They will be probably sweeping all those podiums if they have one more represent per competitions, according to statistics. So your argument is not helping to this debate eather. The best solution i see is to make a competion - Grand prix is a perfect vehicle (i agree that Worlds and Olympics are not) - to express that belonging to a particular nation is not the most important thing in this sport, but your personal results. If you can see that point, perhaps.

That’s not logical at all. They shouldn’t need another place as shown at GPF. If they can’t do it with their top 3, a fourth won’t matter.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

That’s not logical at all. They shouldn’t need another place as shown at GPF. If they can’t do it with their top 3, a fourth won’t matter.

Well, it would be logical if you can see 'them' as individuals and not as 'they'. But really, i'm pretty sure if GP is about personal results, and not about country quota, it would be dominated by Russian and Japanese skaters in much higher capacity than what we are seeing today. And i don't see what is wrong with that. Can someone explain to me what? I mean, other countries would still have a chance to compete at Worlds and Olympics with the current rules without feeling jeopardized by the 'dominance of the others'.

 

[nussnacker]

If you ask me she was better than Ting Cui, so i don't think it's fair to say that she missed a chance.

Not to mention... Ting had a fall and Ksenia skated both programs clean.