2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 920 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Only a fool can think that a professor is not able to count to ten.

Mishin’s only problem now is the lack of intuition after Liza and in futile attempts to improve some of his girls. This is an old and probably the right approach to his students. To be together in joy and sorrow.

In past years, real rare butterflies appeared from the caterpillars. Now these are ordinary specimens, of which there are many in any meadow.
Talent and charisma cannot be trained at the rink. It gives no trainer. I don’t understand the lack of promising new skaters in his group.

Nastya Gulyakova has been talking about 3A for 2 years, but with her growth this is not very similar to the truth. Without this, no one is interested in her fate. They talk about her only out of respect for Mishin. Both programs simply humiliate her. She does not stand comparison. I do not believe that in 2020 Russia is ready to show this under its flag at the World Cup, even with force majeure in the main team. Nugumanova, Sakhanovich and even Stasia who lies at the rink are more worthy. Gray is good to wear for work and not for holiday.

Sonya ... Mishin somehow improbably made the European champion out of the middle skater without jumping. But it looks like her ceiling.

Alexey Nikolaevich urgently needs to look for a young girl and boy with a bright personality.

Maybe I'm wrong, everything is fine and soon we will see Suvorov crossing the Alps.
I think Gulyakova is actually marvelous to watch. She is very charismatic and she has beautiful big jumps so I don't think 3a is out of reach, especially when we consider that she has landed it in 2017. Honestly I would say she is as stron if not stronger than Sakhanovich and Nugumanova. I'm praying she is getting at least a challenger next season if not the rostelecom host spot
 
Only a fool can think that a professor is not able to count to ten.Alexey Nikolaevich urgently needs to look for a young girl and boy with a bright personality.

Question is, will any sensible parent with a promising child skater still ask for the professor's assessment? Do young and ambitious trainers have a chance to realise themselves in Jubileiniy?

Sankt Peterburg's Winged Blades need new elan, new leadership in order for their ladies department to have a new future. None of the promising young skaters that competed in Nationals were from Sankt Peterburg.
While it is perfectly possible for such a large city to have a proper sports school with room and board available for students from Leningradskaya Oblast and the regions surrounding it. Plus I believe because of the rich ballet tradition, there are ties with Permskiy Kray, as indeed some skaters from the Ural and Siberia regions are training in Sankt Peterburg.

Are Russian Junior Nationals and Younger Cup Final contestant lists available anywhere to just be able to count the heads per local federation and rink?
 
Question is, will any sensible parent with a promising child skater still ask for the professor's assessment? Do young and ambitious trainers have a chance to realise themselves in Jubileiniy?

Well I'd certainly take my child, if I had one, to the Professor over any other coach.

If nothing else he'd give them a solid jump technique, he literally wrote the book on jump technique. For all the talk of Sofia's small jumps at least they look solid and controlled.

The lack of respect shown to Mishin astonishes me, it really does. It may have been years ago, but he did train the most consistent and technically superior skater of the early 2000s, even now Plushy's jumps are amazing to watch, the fact he can even do them with all the injuries he's had is testament to Mishin's abilities. Yulia L, who is half Plushy's age, no longer jumps, Adian Pitkeev, who's just 21, can no longer jump either.

As for other trainers, Artur Gachinsky is coaching at Jubileiniy, remember him? The talented skater the Rus Fed threw under the bus and basically told not to hit himself with the door on his way out when he retired much too soon.

Who are the trainers at Eteri's school except for her and Dudakov? I'm sure there's more, but I've never heard of them so why does Mishin have to give a list of the other trainers in his school?
 
:laugh: Bonus points for using an Airplane! reference I love that movie!

But nope, haven't heard of that Sergei, I shall look him up.

;)
He is mostly seen with the younger members of the team on junior Cup of Russia stages, but he also was at Rostelecom.
 
The results speak for themselves, count the < marks, plus the physical condition of the skaters after leaving the ice gives a good indication of the attention to strength/endurance training and conditioning between the different rinks.

This featherlight Valeriya Shulskaya looked as fresh after finishing her routine as when she started it.

Speaking of Shulskaya, Frolova, Tsibinova, who made it to the Nationals by themselves, where do these girls go from here? How can they realise their ambitions and advance through the ranks if your scoring potential is currently maxed at around 200? Go for triksels and quads, girls this tall and lean as they are? Go for a maximised 'triples' content and strive for perfect GOE's? I'd really love to see that quality of skating from these artistic girls.

All inclusive protocols are out: https://fsrussia.ru/files/docs/competitons/1920/rusnat1920_protocol.pdf , but these seem to be messed up for there is no women's SP?
FFKKR photo report from the gala: https://fsrussia.ru/news/4845-fotor...a-chempionata-rossii-v-krasnoyarske-2020.html

Tuktamysheva really stole the show in her fun routine, and smashing cymbals together is even more fun ;-)

BFF's Alyona and Dar'ya jumping together :-)
 
This featherlight Valeriya Shulskaya looked as fresh after finishing her routine as when she started it.

Speaking of Shulskaya, Frolova, Tsibinova, who made it to the Nationals by themselves, where do these girls go from here? How can they realise their ambitions and advance through the ranks if your scoring potential is currently maxed at around 200? Go for triksels and quads, girls this tall and lean as they are? Go for a maximised 'triples' content and strive for perfect GOE's?

These 3 girls are special. How old is Shulskaya? Her short program was fantastic.
 
Valeriya Shulskaya is 15,
Anna Frolova is 14,
Kseniya Tsibinova is 16.

All are currently training in #TeamDavydov at CSKA, so there could be this upwards mobile vortex of advancing in technique and artistry and realising ambitions together? Like in Khrustalniy.

Still no news on what brought the rink change of Frolova about. But in yesterday's Ledokol live stream I heard a long list of promising skaters that left Snow Leopards? And Tarakanova abstaining from her start at the last moment ( so no reserve could have a chance ) while hopping about happily in her latest YT vlog while apparently lightly injured continues to feed by doubts over #TeamPanova's dynamics.

PS: art lessons in CSKA Novices class by the father of "Ice Age, Kids" skater Mariya Rebrova, who is quite good at drawing herself: http://ltk-cska.ru/news/1832-uroki-risovaniya-na-katke.html

PSS: next year's National Championships will be held in Chelyabinsk, December 22-27: http://ltk-cska.ru/news/1845-chempionat-rossii-2021.html
 
The way you describe and "unpackage" PCS is how, at least for me, it should be judged.
Interpretation and performance have little to do with skating skills and transition: the 1st two being purely artistic the latter being technical, and compsition should really be related to how the program is build and put on the ice.
Yet we rarely see more than 0.5 votes between the best and the worst of the 5 categories, like the judges are just adjusting aroung a base "artistic score" they give to the skater.
Like the could not be a girl with marvelous blades, but no musicality or ability to convey the program idea to the audience, or a girl with little technique but that build with her trainer and choreographer a great program composition.

Another thing I hate is that PCS goes up with TES.
You can bet money that Sasha without quads will be badly punished in PCS while will get great numbers if she lands 3 of them.
That could be ok with performance and transitions (impossible to skate a transition while recovering from a fall) because the program will be flowing, but what could possibly have to do with skating skills, intepretation and especially composition?

I appreciate Sasha's interpretation in the short when she's skating and not just preparing for jumps.
That's the problem with quad filled programs (even for men) so much time is spent preparing and recovering from jumps that the actual skating is reduced to a minimun, and that should (theoretically) impact composition, interpretation and performance.

Yeah it's honestly hard to blame the coaches, cause the judges do see it that way. As long as you land the elements, and the execution is good, PCS will rise no matter what.

Trusova's SP is enjoyable up until the steps sequence which is too frantic and super messy, it makes her look even worse as a skater, cause it's more difficult to keep up with the music.

Only a fool can think that a professor is not able to count to ten.

Mishin’s only problem now is the lack of intuition after Liza and in futile attempts to improve some of his girls. This is an old and probably the right approach to his students. To be together in joy and sorrow.

In past years, real rare butterflies appeared from the caterpillars. Now these are ordinary specimens, of which there are many in any meadow.
Talent and charisma cannot be trained at the rink. It gives no trainer. I don’t understand the lack of promising new skaters in his group.

Nastya Gulyakova has been talking about 3A for 2 years, but with her growth this is not very similar to the truth. Without this, no one is interested in her fate. They talk about her only out of respect for Mishin. Both programs simply humiliate her. She does not stand comparison. I do not believe that in 2020 Russia is ready to show this under its flag at the World Cup, even with force majeure in the main team. Nugumanova, Sakhanovich and even Stasia who lies at the rink are more worthy. Gray is good to wear for work and not for holiday.

Sonya ... Mishin somehow improbably made the European champion out of the middle skater without jumping. But it looks like her ceiling.

Alexey Nikolaevich urgently needs to look for a young girl and boy with a bright personality.

Maybe I'm wrong, everything is fine and soon we will see Suvorov crossing the Alps.

Disagree.

To me Gulyakova's Carmen was better than Alina's carmen last season. There is power, there is emotion on the ice (although maybe not enough skating but that's a complain you can extend to all Mishin skaters), i want to see more of that from the other girls!

Gulyakova is perhaps the ideal type of skater for Mishin, cause it's still mostly about the elements, which are big, she does lack a bit on skating skills (but Mishin doesn't care of that even if you have them) but she performs so there's still artistry.

I think Alexey Nikolaevich works better with mature athletes, and he obviously wants to raise long lasting skaters. We saw him dealing with the best juniors, Elizaveta Nugumanova and Petr Gumennik were the most promising talents, it didn't work.
 
Sasha's GOT is literally using a theme from a popular series people liked and most of the program is setting up jumps, some cool transition but there's never an attempt to sell the routine, i wouldn't give it above 7 for performance, and maybe even 6 for interpretation.

And in contrast with what people say, about Trusova not being artistic, i actually think the way she moves is good, you can work on it, she could be much more artistic with a better packaging and some work on posture and gliding, but nobody bothers, it's all about the quads, the levels, and the speed.

Now it's the quad loop, but do we really need another quad when she always falls with the current layout? i don't understand.

With 3 quads and maybe the 3a she could win everything as long as she skates clean. Same with Samsonov, they are pushing it too hard way too early in my opinion.



What could have happened if she won Junior Worlds and got the bronze at JGPF that season? Maybe she would still skate today.

Career decided by those little things.
yes her career was decided by those little things but there are a lot of ifs in figure skating with figure skaters. It was that way with Alisa. It's that way with Gubanova too. what if she wasn't passed over so many times and actually got real chances? Now it's almost too late for nastya.

:noshake: just sad
We should really just have a no jump program and jump program and award full sized medals to each portion, with an overall winner.
Everyone happy no?
Yesssssssss Kat! But it does mean someone like Anna would win all three portions the artistic portion the technical portion and the overall portion. but will also give skaters who don't have triple axles and quads a chance to do something whereas Anna just buried them all Russian Nationals beating them by God knows how many points 50 60 70. Figure skating really needs me or proposal moonkat especially for the ladies.
 
Question is, will any sensible parent with a promising child skater still ask for the professor's assessment?

Yes. I would. Actually, I wouldn‘t let my kid get into figure skating on an elite level because the sport, as beautiful as it is in theory, is messed up to the core. But that‘s a separate issue. If I had to choose a Russian coach, however, I would choose Mishin. He‘s old-fashioned, makes questionable comments and looks like a grumpy old grandpa but at least he cares for his students to the point that he actually goes through their hard years with them. I‘d rather have questionable layout choices for my child and less medals but a healthy body than what is going on in some other camps...


Alexey Nikolaevich urgently needs to look for a young girl and boy with a bright personality.

Because that‘s what you do when your old products don‘t work anymore, right? You look for new material for your factory... I‘ve criticized Mishin a lot too, he‘s clearly stuck in old times regarding things like jumping layout, transitions and skating skills. His programs are empty and yes, I‘ll say it like this: Choosing, I‘d prefer watching Eteri skater programs. But I find it sadly ironic that he‘s shamed like this on here when other things that, imo, are on a totally different level of horrible by other coaches are not only ignored but praised. This shows a whole lot about what‘s going on in this thread and I can only shake my head at it.
 
Yes. I would. Actually, I wouldn‘t let my kid get into figure skating on an elite level because the sport, as beautiful as it is in theory, is messed up to the core. But that‘s a separate issue. If I had to choose a Russian coach, however, I would choose Mishin. He‘s old-fashioned, makes questionable comments and looks like a grumpy old grandpa but at least he cares for his students to the point that he actually goes through their hard years with them. I‘d rather have questionable layout choices for my child and less medals but a healthy body than what is going on in some other camps...




Because that‘s what you do when your old products don‘t work anymore, right? You look for new material for your factory... I‘ve criticized Mishin a lot too, he‘s clearly stuck in old times regarding things like jumping layout, transitions and skating skills. His programs are empty and yes, I‘ll say it like this: Choosing, I‘d prefer watching Eteri skater programs. But I find it sadly ironic that he‘s shamed like this on here when other things that, imo, are on a totally different level of horrible by other coaches are not only ignored but praised. This shows a whole lot about what‘s going on in this thread and I can only shake my head at it.

Who do you mean? Who is this villain?
 
I still find it amusing...well actually irritating that some people are forever banging on about Liza not replacing "easy" jumps with "hard" jumps like she's doing it on purpose.

I mean these are some of the hardest jumps you can do, most ladies can't do them in fact. No matter! Liza should still immediately put in three 3As (one in combo) and 2 4Ts(one in combo) in her programs like it's no big deal and the fact they didn't makes Liza and Mishin idiots.

When Aliona did her 3A everyone was so impressed as they should be, but Liza adds a 4T and everyone is all "Where'd the 3A combo go?!"

Guess she needs to toss in a 4A before some of you are impressed by her skill.

You’re personalizing this unnecessarily. The main reason to do harder jumps is not because it’s a great accomplishment (even if it is) but because they give you a scoring advantage. Simply put, Liza doesn’t get as much of a scoring advantage as she could because when she does a program with two 3As she only does 7 (not 8) triples total, and when she does a program with a 4T and a 3A, she only does 6 (not 7) triples total. Since her PCS and GOE are often low compared to her competitors, and since she sometimes loses levels on spins, the harder jumps she’s doing don’t help her that much.
 
Anna prerotated less this time - when it comes to her first quad lutz and her quad flip (I watched a slow motion of the slow motion). She did not face forward when she left the ice. Still her edge was completely flat for her lutz and she did not use the toe pick to prerotate 30-40 degrees, instead she prerotated between 90 and 180 degrees with her blade.
Also her lutz and her flip look like the same jump. No difference since she does not have an outside edge on her lutz.
 
Just don't ask, for the sake of peace :biggrin:

Why, though? It‘s not only Eteri, obviously. It‘s not like e.g Plushenko or Buyanova have always been shining examples of perfect coaching strategies. Mishin is old-fashioned but I find the excessive ridiculing (like asking if parents would ever want to send their children to him again) too much.
 
It will be most interesting to see with what composition Aleksandra, Alyona and Anna arrive at Europeans.

No changes made?

Aleksandra will have her dragonfire reined in? She'll probably still strive for all five different quads in one routine, and can do five in training and warm ups ...

Alyona will try her new quad?

Anna will try her new triksel?

When either of them makes a mistake, their TES buffer is still sufficient to medal. Time for experiments?

Still wishing for a Junior Europeans, just like in gymnastics.

If Anna or Kostornaia are going to debut any new elements I would think they debut them at Europeans, if they land them then they stay in the programs for Worlds. At Europeans they really are in a competition with themselves unless there is a European skater that has been perfecting quads and triple axels and not posting it on social media. At Worlds it depends on what their competitors are doing, Rika has a triple axel and can do a 4S its a matter of does she land them, Young You also has a triple axel and gets decent PCS - and I wonder if after Shcherbakova/Kostornaia/Trusova (assuming they do) sweep Europeans, if skaters like Rika and Young will get additional boosts on their scores if clean to get them on the podium to prevent a complete sweep for the entire season if 1 of the trio skates flawed.
 
Those 3 girls are hardened now beyond any other competitor. They have all felt the pain of losing because of making mistakes and tasted the high of victory when skating cleanly.

No other competitor had a real chance in GP and some are already troubled with detrimental injuries while those 3 girls are young and free from such injuries AFAWK.

So apart from their skill level now they have all mastered a formidable arsenal of elements, it is their mindset that will be their strongest weapon in their venture to go where no skater has gone before.
 
She can't do it. That is the problem. Sore back and age. She is still the pride of Russia. We need her for another 2 years. She knows, we know, everyone knows that.

Has she or Mishin mentioned in an interview that those are the reasons she cannot do a competitive layout with the top competitors from her country? And Russia doesn't particularly 'need' her for another 2 years, if you are implying that the current leaders aren't going to 'survive' that long, then as it's been really since 2013, Sambo will just have a new crop of skaters at the top. And if Liza not doing a back-loaded 3-3, in either program, if your argument is that she can't do it in the FS that's twice as long as the SP then okay but the SP is only 2.5 minutes, now due to a sore back and age, in 2 years she's only going to be 2 years older in age and have 2 more years of wear and tear on her back.
 
Back
Top