2019 US Nationals Senior Pairs SP

[CoyoteChris]

Not really. She stands out like she didn't get the fashion message but still glad to see her I think so far what I have seen the results are right but the scores are very generous compared to Russian and Canadian Nationals.

LOL! I LIKE the fashions she wears, but I am not a good judge of fashion. I think the scores were in purportion to the skating. In general, we are not strong in pairs but I thought this was a good event. Cant wait for Four Conts. I hear they have sun there. And good skaters.

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Ashley and Tim:yes2:

I love that SP. :luv17: and love to see her skating again

You just might see it at 4 Conts!

 

[moonvine]

Mirai looks lovely commentating....

She said she was really nervous. I didn't get to see it so I don't know how she came off.

 

[Mohacz]

U.S. NATIONALS PREDICTIONS GAME - PAIRS SMALL MEDALS


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Hello everyone, here go the small medals in the Pairs event. We have 83 participants in this competition and after the SP there are 8 gold, 14 silver and 44 bronze medals:​

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45 points ​ BillNeal cabres CherylDee desertskates Dreamer57 elektra blue figurefan0726 invisiblespiral merrywidow moonstruck noraaa readernick SnowWhite waterfall braid​

50 points alyssamarie Azcha cathlen chasseneige gonewiththewind25 lutz Ruthypegs sunnystars​

40 points #1Kerryfan AidenAiena apgold Baron Vladimir bobbob BravesSkateFan CaroLiza_fan casualfan Chris Cooper corynna Debrah DenissVFan formersk8ter gizmo gold12345 Hyena Joubabe Koatterce lichi Maria Anna Marin Marius marulia Mohacz Nathan13 NoNameFace NYscorp6 Pandicorn Sabrina Sjs5572 Skater Boy skylark Spirals for Miles ssffww Step Sequence4 Sugarpova sweetice tabsy TheBallerina tosca vesperalvioletta voolfee Weathergal Winry

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Congratulations and let's see who is able to maintain the podium after the FS.

 

[gold12345]

Alexa and Chris weren't that bad.... How were they judged so poorly. Personally I think they only Tarah and Danny were better, though I get 2nd and 3rd, so they should be in 4th. Once again, Nationals judges and their complete disregard for skating skills. Make a mistake and you're done.

Yes I have concerns with how pairs is scored at US Nationals. It's so different from an international event that I feel frustrated while watching it. No other pair event throughout the season is like this, and I can follow along very well with the scoring even if it's a bit inflated. But here, it makes far less sense.

Alexa & Chris were scored reasonably, about the same as they would have been at an international event. They missed a lot of levels, which is really uncharacteristic for them-- their levels haven't been bad at any point in the season. Surely that bizarre triple twist error rattled them. Maybe the twist was bigger than usual but it was shocking to see it that off. They also changed a few things in the program and have to take a look at why they missed levels on those things. But all in all, they were scored like they would have been scored anywhere.

Most of the pairs above them, however, received huge inflation over what they typically score internationally. It's no secret that these US pairs don't get amazing international scores, and part of this is because of element quality. This event seems to fixate on not making big mistakes and less so on skating/element quality, the latter of which is what truly separates the good from the great in pairs. One of the reasons why it's easier for Tarah/Danny to skate cleanly is because they have lesser elements. Their throws are small and therefore less risky. Their twist wasn't even clean and still got some +3s as if its a strong element for them. Just because they were more or less clean didn't mean there was nothing wrong. They deserved 1st today, but there's no way they would have a 10 point lead over K/K in an international event. Cain/LeDuc wouldn't be that far ahead with an UR jump either. URs have really hurt their scores throughout this season.

It's odd how every US pair can get up to +3 or even +4 on their twist domestically, meaning that even if K/K did an amazing twist here, they still wouldn't have gotten the point advantage that they would have gotten in an international event where the big GOE are reserved for only the very best twists. Our other pairs' twists don't look like Boikova/Kozlovskii's, who scored in the +3 vicinity at Europeans.

Stellato/Bartholomay scored dramatically better here than they do internationally for the same type of skate (messy throw, eked out jump). An American audience likes Barbra Streisand, but that's not supposed to impact a score. There are certain things that hold them back (for example, their twist barely clears his head), which is why their international scores haven't been strong even during times when they don't make big mistakes. Why is it seemingly more difficult for K/K to beat Stellato/Bartholomay in a US competition than it is at an international competition? It's been clear all year (and every year) that K/K could make several big mistakes and still outscore S/B's personal best. S/B haven't scored well yet anywhere except US Nationals, even with pleasant skates. There just seems to be a disconnect between what the National panel rewards in pair skating as opposed to an International panel, and it's difficult to understand how this is beneficial.

 

[louisa05]

Yes I have concerns with how pairs is scored at US Nationals. It's so different from an international event that I feel frustrated while watching it. No other pair event throughout the season is like this, and I can follow along very well with the scoring even if it's a bit inflated. But here, it makes far less sense.


Most of the pairs above them, however, received huge inflation over what they typically score internationally. It's no secret that these US pairs don't get amazing international scores, and part of this is because of element quality. This event seems to fixate on not making big mistakes and less so on skating/element quality, the latter of which is what truly separates the good from the great in pairs. .

The lack of quality elements in U.S. pairs is painful to watch. The death spirals with terrible positions and not even close to the ice. The very labored and close catches on twists. The long set ups for throws.

Our pairs are awful. USFSA really needs to focus on figuring out how to improve it whether than means incentives to keep pairs together, pushing for better coaching, finding ways to encourage stronger skaters into the discipline--there are a lot of "singles didn't work out so let's do pairs" skaters.

 

[TontoK]

I am genuinely puzzled by the reaction to Chris and Alexa's score and placement.

There were near disasters on two of the elements (twist and jumps) and a notable error on the throw. Level 3 spin OK, but Level 2 steps and Level 1 death spiral.

Overall, it was uninspiring. I could almost see the panic in the basic skating as the errors stacked up. Honestly, a low middle of the pack placement was about the best they could hope for.

I'm rooting for a much better long program, but their standing after the SP shouldn't be shocking, considering the performance.

 

[CoyoteChris]

She said she was really nervous. I didn't get to see it so I don't know how she came off.

She did come off nervous. She isnt the most articulate person during rapid fire banter amoug 3 other main skaters....Personally, being very old, I would appreciate just two good commentatiors not trying to talk at the speed of light....(On the other hand, if Air Traffic Control goes on strike, those four could handle Chicago Center all by themselves! Sorry....pilot joke....

 

[CoyoteChris]

I am genuinely puzzled by the reaction to Chris and Alexa's score and placement.

There were near disasters on two of the elements (twist and jumps) and a notable error on the throw. Level 3 spin OK, but Level 2 steps and Level 1 death spiral.

Overall, it was uninspiring. I could almost see the panic in the basic skating as the errors stacked up. Honestly, a low middle of the pack placement was about the best they could hope for.

I'm rooting for a much better long program, but their standing after the SP shouldn't be shocking, considering the performance.

Well said and true, unfortunately. I feel bad for them and hope they roar back....

 

[Skater Boy]

The lack of quality elements in U.S. pairs is painful to watch. The death spirals with terrible positions and not even close to the ice. The very labored and close catches on twists. The long set ups for throws.

Our pairs are awful. USFSA really needs to focus on figuring out how to improve it whether than means incentives to keep pairs together, pushing for better coaching, finding ways to encourage stronger skaters into the discipline--there are a lot of "singles didn't work out so let's do pairs" skaters.

I think this is a bit harsh. THe scores are generous here compared to Canada and Russia but the teams are getting the elements in. The Knerims a few years ago look like they might have been meda contenders or top 5 at least. And the goal was to beat the Canadians and the scores are doing that. The top teams can beat MT-M. Sad about the Knerims but they still have an outside chance as ice is so slippery. You can't always have superstars. Look at Canada and their frequent lulls in ladies. 45 years until Osmond won a WGM. Mind you when did an American team last win, not just medal worlds? I remember there was a story about Randy and Tai and they won before the 1980 Olympics Not sure if any american team won after so there is still a good six years left for the US to win WGM? Trying to be positive.

 

[Osmond4gold]

I think this is a bit harsh. THe scores are generous here compared to Canada and Russia but the teams are getting the elements in. The Knerims a few years ago look like they might have been meda contenders or top 5 at least. And the goal was to beat the Canadians and the scores are doing that. The top teams can beat MT-M. Sad about the Knerims but they still have an outside chance as ice is so slippery. You can't always have superstars. Look at Canada and their frequent lulls in ladies. 45 years until Osmond won a WGM. Mind you when did an American team last win, not just medal worlds? I remember there was a story about Randy and Tai and they won before the 1980 Olympics Not sure if any american team won after so there is still a good six years left for the US to win WGM? Trying to be positive.

Whada? Yes, 45 years between Gold medals but only 12 months between recent World podiums. Your analogy is a stretch SB, and pales in comparison to US Pairs. Between Joannie, Kaetlyn and Gabby, Canadian ladies hold 4 World podium placements in 10 years, which is very different from your comparison of US Pairs, or 0 in 10 for the same period.

The two records are vastly different, Skater Boy.

 

[moonvine]

Whada? Yes, 45 years between Gold medals but only 12 months between recent World podiums. Your analogy is a stretch SB, and pales in comparison to US Pairs. Between Joannie, Kaetlyn and Gabby, Canadian ladies hold 4 World podium placements in 10 years, which is very different from your comparison of US Pairs, or 0 in 10 for the same period.

The two records are vastly different, Skater Boy.

Our last Worlds gold was in 1979. Nineteen seventy nine.

 

[moonvine]

See Calalang& Johnson at 1:12 - kind off a sideways cartwheel. Tai & Randy were famous for them.

https://youtu.be/u08BA8VXuwY

They should be a required element. LOVED Tai & Randy's.

 

[moonvine]

Just got home and am watching NBC’s coverage and they aren’t even bothering to pretend there are more than a few hundred people in the arena. So sad. Probably my favorite discipline.

 

[Skater Boy]

Whada? Yes, 45 years between Gold medals but only 12 months between recent World podiums. Your analogy is a stretch SB, and pales in comparison to US Pairs. Between Joannie, Kaetlyn and Gabby, Canadian ladies hold 4 World podium placements in 10 years, which is very different from your comparison of US Pairs, or 0 in 10 for the same period.

The two records are vastly different, Skater Boy.

Ah, if you read not even so carefully you will see I mentioned and fairly noted the American lack of medals all together. Canada has had Liz Manley, Rochette, Osmond, Daleman and heck she did win a medal but a threat Chouinard.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Ah, if you read not even so carefully you will see I mentioned and fairly noted the American lack of medals all together. Canada has had Liz Manley, Rochette, Osmond, Daleman and heck she did win a medal but a threat Chouinard.

Add in medals earned from the Olympics or 4 Olympic medals and 4 World podium placements or 8 collected in the past 10 years, and your comparison b/t US pairs and Canadian women goes from bad to the absurd. Moving on.

 

[gold12345]

It's very difficult to compare pairs to ladies anyway. There's a far greater turnover in ladies' competitors than there is in pairs. There's no Aljona Savchenko in ladies claiming ELEVEN World medals. The best ladies sometimes are gone as soon as age 17, which opens up another podium spot.

 

[Mathman]

Add in medals earned from the Olympics or 4 Olympic medals and 4 World podium placements or 8 collected in the past 10 years, and your comparison b/t US pairs and Canadian women goes from bad to the absurd. Moving on.

I think you are beating up on Skater Boy for no reason here. Skater Boy's only point was that Canadian ladies went for a number of years after the early 1970s without a lot of high spots, then suddenly jumped to the forefront with Rochette, Osmond. etc. In the same way, maybe U.S. pairs will have a resurgence one of these days. Hope springs eternal.

 

[labgoat]

Our last Worlds gold was in 1979. Nineteen seventy nine.

Tai & Randy were only the second and last American pair to win a world championship. The other team was Karol & Peter Kennedy in 1950, twenty nine years before Tai & Randy. It has now been 40 years since Tai & Randy won.

Here is a link to Tai & Randy winning in 1979
Part 1 https://youtu.be/63cmIfO-u6k
Part 2 https://youtu.be/FwvqSoNLoqM

Note their pull Arabians at 2:50 and in the replay and my favorite move of all time the spread eagles into Ina Bauers.

Anyone think Jessica Calalang resembles Tai a bit.

I'd love to see some current US pairs copy a few of Tai & Randy's classic moves.

 

[moonvine]

Tai & Randy were only the second and last American pair to win a world championship. The other team was Karol & Peter Kennedy in 1950, twenty nine years before Tai & Randy. It has now been 40 years since Tai & Randy won.

Here is a link to Tai & Randy winning in 1979
Part 1 https://youtu.be/63cmIfO-u6k
Part 2 https://youtu.be/FwvqSoNLoqM

Note their pull Arabians at 2:50 and in the replay and my favorite move of all time the spread eagles into Ina Bauers.

Anyone think Jessica Calalang resembles Tai a bit.

I'd love to see some current US pairs copy a few of Tai & Randy's classic moves.

Oh, they were so lovely. I think a pair like that is the only thing that might possibly spark an interest in US Pairs skating. They were very well-known, had an SI poster which I owned, the Heartbreak Kids at the Olympics...

I don't think anyone resembles Tai. She has skating skills like few people I've ever seen. I would probably pay money just to see her stroke around the ice. And they stayed together FORTY years. And I think the pull Arabians should be a required pairs element.

It is truly one of my great regrets I never got to see them skate in person: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZW5BbpbhO4