2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 385 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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Yes, she scored 2.20 on that 3A at GPF, and now she scored 5.60. That's 3.40 more. Yes she didn't fall, it was fully rotated, but it was a very bad landing. Do you think that she should have gotten more than +3.40 for this 3A? She scored 12.71 for the same combination at GPF, here it was 13.23. She lost 0.87 on the Flip compared to GPF because of the '!'. Had that been internationally she probably would have lost 1.5-2 points. She had the same level on the StepSeq at GPF but still they gave her more GOE here. She didn't have a spin violation at GPF so she lost abt 1 point here. Her PCS was 2 points higher than at GPF,

No, I fail to see that Sasha was jugded "internationally" while th

Yes, she scored 2.20 on that 3A at GPF, and now she scored 5.60. That's 3.40 more. Yes she didn't fall, it was fully rotated, but it was a very bad landing. Do you think that she should have gotten more than +3.40 for this 3A? She scored 12.71 for the same combination at GPF, here it was 13.23. She lost 0.87 on the Flip compared to GPF because of the '!'. Had that been internationally she probably would have lost 1.5-2 points. She had the same level on the StepSeq at GPF but still they gave her more GOE here. She didn't have a spin violation at GPF so she lost abt 1 point here. Her PCS was 2 points higher than at GPF,

No, I fail to see that Sasha was jugded "internationally" while the others weren't.
Ok. I guess weall see what we want to see. As mentioned, the issue isn't with Sasha's scores. They were fine. The issue is with Valieva and Usacheva's scores and PCS。 Why don't you do a per element comparison of their scores here to JW 2020 (were they both skated better in my opinion) and also compare the PCS and see what you find. But, I guess you won't do that because it would force you too notice something that you don't want to see.
 
Look here, I think Sasha's score is definitely reasonable (maybe even a little lower if you gave the 3F an "e" call), and I don't think the reason why people are so angry is because she was underscored (because again, she was not). But the issue is that Kami and Dasha were overscored, and taking away spin bonuses doesn't change the fact that Kami's protocol was full of 4s and 5s, with most of her PCS scores being above 9.25, nor the fact that Dasha's flutz went uncalled, again.

Thank you I don’t really understand why we’re going on about the “risk” one takes when attempting a 3A and how the “problem” is she didn’t land it when her score isn’t the issue.

and yes Daria’s lutz edge was flat despite the shallow attempts at gaslighting. It was flat and obviously so.
 
Actually, two seasons ago everyone was saying that she'd probably retire because of injury before she even reached the senior level. If Sasha is clean she should win because of the sheer technical and athletic ability shown, but again, if she's not clean then everyone should have a chance. It's not a "narrative", it's being supported by evidence. Maybe there's another explanation, but from what I've seen with Tutberidze skaters scoring and non-Tutberidze skaters scoring (not even just Sasha, Frolova and Stasya too)... RusFed just isn't interested in giving them more than (or even exactly what) they deserve.

And fun fact, just because Sasha isn't unbeatable doesn't mean she hasn't made history through landing quads and pushing others to do the same. (
Of course not. Basically I think that in like 10 years or more Sasha Trusova is the only name that for sure will be remembered of all the current bunch of young female FS stars. And that because of the impact she made, pretty regardless of Rus Fed politics, fan wars, instagram posts of this or other coach and results of this or that local competition ... :biggrin:.
 
Anyway regardless of the scoring, there are many things I would like to see Trusova improve upon. For one I don't think she was connected to the performance today as she was at test skates. I have rewatched test skates multiple times because her SP was so beautiful and sensitive there but it seemed to lack that connection today. Her flip edge call was also right, she needs to work on that. One think that I really really really want her to do is to hold her landings!! I don't know why she doesn't do this often when this is an easy way to gain GOE. I hope she really improves on these things. I also love her dress it's so girly and I'm not used to her wearing such girly dresses but I'll get used to it. I hope she has an even girlier one for Juliet tmrw!

For Kamilla, her performance was good too. One thing she needs to fix is her landing edge. It was quite clear as an inside edge on her axel landing today. Her landing position as a spiral is also so overdone and I'm tired of it. Otherwise, her program is really nice and her skating skill are nice as usual.

For Daria, her entry into her 2A really needs to be changed it so ugly but the jump itself is so nice. She also needs to work on her lutz edge but no one will call it as long as she's with Eteri so w/e. Her program is also nice also I like it the least amongst the top 3.

For Frolova, I think her presentation skills have gotten better! I think she was quite underscored in GOE especially because they didn't call her lutz this time. I personally think that she worked hard and her edge was better here.


I had more thoughts as I was watching about almost everyone but I can't remember all.

I'm looking forward to tmrw and I'm curious how is going to win aka who's going to land their quads btw Kamilla and Sasha.
 
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I don't think Daria was overscored so much. (Not thinking about Lutz edge.)

Her jump GOE is:

2A 1.06 3Lz 1.53 3F-3T 1.80

All are reasonable internationally even. Her PCS was 0.3 lower than Sasha at 34.6. She maybe was overscored 0.5 max across spins. Even her StepSeq GOE was 1.4. Without the B her score would be 77.39.
 
The girls know how superb and well-rounded Kamila is. They've known she's been coming for over a year. Now she's here and everyone has to deal with it including Sasha and aliona. They know better than anyone how good this girl is. My guess is the Russian figure skating Federation knows this as well.

But Kamila

You're being much too negative.

Sasha always controls her destiny with her free skate she did it with TT and she will have the same scenario at PA.

but Kamila is a different challenge for Sasha and even Anna and Aliona. Has any country ever had for such phenomenal girls within a couple years of each other in the same discipline? Yes Russia has with. 4a. Now there are more Russian girls coming and then after that more girls coming and the frankly need more spots available in the major competitions then just three.

Sure I think the Federation put Valleva with Sasha to bother Sasha because the Federation probably wasn't happy she changed coaches after Sasha became the best Junior girl ever under TT. Kamila does not have the immense weight of unbelievable expectations the way Sasha does at this point in their careers. But I think you and others are overreacting to today's results and scoring. People (judges,) are rightfully wowed by KV the new kid on the TT block. But Sasha can slay her if she hits her free skate.

No matter what happens tomorrow it's not Nationals or worlds or Europeans or Olympics.

Not sure if I agree it was anger over the coaching move, but perhaps to push Trusova to get better at all elements because let's face it even if you are a die-hard fan of her or her coach, she is largely a 1 note skater, it's all jumps everything else is really a middle of the pack skater, whereas the other front-runners for being on teams of major competitions this year and next are far more well-rounded, perhaps they don't have the best technique but they have sufficient technique and a boatload of other elements that they do at a podium quality.
 
So a question for all you people who think that Trusova's 3A wasn't scored enough.

How would you have scored it?

It was a pretty bad landing so we can all agree that this means -GOE right?

From a scale from -1 to -5, with -5 being a fall (you can get -5 without a fall as well)
I would give it a -3 - that means 30% off, so BV 8.00 - 2.40 = 5.60

Guess what - she got exactly 5.60 for it. Was that unreasonable?
 
Daria Usacheva's lutz edge is not flat. It's INSIDE. Like Medvedeva-Lutz Inside.
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Yes, she is a flutzer. It doesn't take away from her other lovely qualities. Daria is actually my favorite skater of the ladies who competed here. I love her ( I hate the SP program), but she was overscored. Her 2A really is +5 material...I am not so sure her other elements are....
 
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Ok. I guess weall see what we want to see. As mentioned, the issue isn't with Sasha's scores. They were fine. The issue is with Valieva and Usacheva's scores and PCS。 Why don't you do a per element comparison of their scores here to JW 2020 (were they both skated better in my opinion) and also compare the PCS and see what you find. But, I guess you won't do that because it would force you too notice something that you don't want to see.
I am not refusing to see anything. Of course the scores are higher here. The thing is though, you can't compare a junior competition with a senior competition.
 
So a question for all you people who think that Trusova's 3A wasn't scored enough.

How would you have scored it?

It was a pretty bad landing so we can all agree that this means -GOE right?

From a scale from -1 to -5, with -5 being a fall (you can get -5 without a fall as well)
I would give it a -3 - that means 30% off, so BV 8.00 - 2.40 = 5.60

Guess what - she got exactly 5.60 for it. Was that unreasonable?
It's reasonable. No once is saying her scores were wrong.. The argument is about Valieva's and Daria's scores. You are arguing against things that people aren't claiming.
 
So a question for all you people who think that Trusova's 3A wasn't scored enough.

How would you have scored it?

It was a pretty bad landing so we can all agree that this means -GOE right?

From a scale from -1 to -5, with -5 being a fall (you can get -5 without a fall as well)
I would give it a -3 - that means 30% off, so BV 8.00 - 2.40 = 5.60

Guess what - she got exactly 5.60 for it. Was that unreasonable?
are you just being disingenuous or?? literally no one is saying her axel is being underscored. Most people don't have a problem with her score in itself. The problem is her scores in relation to the others.
 
Except Aleksandra herself benefitted all of that "unfairness" and "bias" last season too. She got the higher marks she never would have gotten otherwise simply because of her success as a junior and the media hype she carried with her. And some fans of other skaters could claim last season exactly as you are claiming now. If Aleksandra had been more successful last season her marks, with the same performance she gave, would have been higher but she didn't and therefore is still at square one. This is nothing new, its something that has been happening, in all disciplines, for ages. It's not fair but that's the game of judged sport. It's always been a momentum game

Kamila and Daria are getting the reception now that Aleksandra got last season. If their marks are higher then hers were last year it's because they performed better and rules changed. If they don't perform well this season then their marks likely flatline just as Aleksandra's has so far.
Where in my post did I say that Sasha hasn't benefitted? Nowhere, because she has and I don't disagree with you on that. But why should we excuse the fact that she is now not benefitting just because of a weak season just because she had benefitted before? Two wrongs don't make a right. And the momentum argument really has a lot of flaws, as readernick says Maiia doesn't have much of an international reputation and yet she still gets a score boost when she skates clean (the SP at Cup 1 should've shown that). Zhenya, coming from two Olympic silvers was also treated harshly on her first season with Orser. And even if the momentum thing is somewhat true, it doesn't make it right. You are simply arguing that maybe it's not Eteri Bonus but momentum bonus, but is that really much better? And the truth is probably a mix of the two (like Maiia is a great example because she still gets scored semi-realistically when she performs badly), but that still doesn't make either fair for everyone else.
 
It's funny that 2 seasons ago Trusova was praised as the Messiah of figure skating and that no one would be able to stand in her way and that she was going to win every gold medal by a large margin, and now the narrative is that she is some poor, helpless underdog that the RusFed is biased against.

Ok folks.
The Eteri bonus is worth a lot
 
I thought we were closing in on a consensus. Sasha's score was reasonable, but the GOE and PCS boost for Sasha and Kamila were difficult to justify.
Indeed. Valieva's jumps really aren't that good ( her 4T is but that is only in the LP) and the combo doesn't have rhythm. Also, the strict technical calling for Sasha (and the other ladies), but the lax technical calling for Daria and Anna. (especially Anna) is really glaring. Anyway, enough has been said. I really like all these ladies. I hope Sasha and Valieva land their difficult elements in the FP. Daria manages to have a magical skate despite her terrible program. Anna is beautiful and serene. And, Stasya has a clean program for once in her life! Best of Luck to all!
 
Junior or new seniors outscoring "old" seniors is an history repeat. Each time fed clearly show who they support.

- They said to Radionova that she won't ever beat Medvedeva again when they gave Medvedeva almost 80 in SP and 155 in FS at her 1st nats as senior. She got the message, if it wasn't clear enough, at euros where despite her being clean, Medvedeva with two falls beat her by 4 points.

- It was the end for Medvedeva when Zagitova got scores so high at euros that even clean Medvedeva probably couldn't have beaten her. And she never beat senior Zagitova.

- It was the end for Zagitova when rookies with ultra C stepped in the game and TP suddenly started to call her URs more often.

- Now if Valieva skate clean-ish skate after clean-ish skate it will be the end for those who were seniors before her.

If Kostornaya get her 3A back and deliver clean programs she has a chance though.

But fed shift their support probably because the next generation always has better "arguments".

I disagree that Zagitova lost support, she was usually always #1 or #2 in terms of PCS with the exception of the GPF FS debacle in which she was 4th in PCS scoring; she was even the top PCS score receiver at IDF for the FS that wasn't that great either. She lost based on the technical score not only because her competitors were landing multiple triple axels and quads but because she was generally having messy landings on lower valued elements.
 
Not sure if I agree it was anger over the coaching move, but perhaps to push Trusova to get better at all elements because let's face it even if you are a die-hard fan of her or her coach, she is largely a 1 note skater, it's all jumps everything else is really a middle of the pack skater, whereas the other front-runners for being on teams of major competitions this year and next are far more well-rounded, perhaps they don't have the best technique but they have sufficient technique and a boatload of other elements that they do at a podium quality.
That's the quandary of figure skating. Sasha is making strides besides being a great jumper. She's 16 and not by any means of finished product. I think she's in remarkably top form after not skating for months and not having a normal offseason. She probably gets frustrated with things but the talent her her own country is just off the charts and she has to deal with that. They all do. It can't be easy.

No one knows who will be on the Russisn Olympic team. In America we can guess who the three girls will be with 99.9% accuracy. That's not the case with a Russian girls.
 
I think another thing to remember is this is Kamila and Daria's first senior outing. All three of Sasha, Anna, and Aliona got a PCS boost when they turned seniors domestically. (For that matter, same with Evgenia and Alina.) This really isn't new.
Can you find the similarity between those skaters? Oh, yes, they were all coached by Eteri.

Frolova is a new senior, do her scores reflect this "PCS boost" concept?
 
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