2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Amei]

Puberty hit her a little bit. Also competition passed Sofia by.. when she won Euros Alina collapsed and she didn't have to skate against 3A. Timing is everything in this sport especially with a Russian ladies.

I think 1 of the NBC commentators made that remark her first season that it was good she was getting to seniors then vs. the following year

 

[anonymoose_au]

Also, I love Sofia's energy and performance quality. She has a sass and spirit that comes through her performance. However, it's not like her winning Euro's was expected. The top girls in Russia were juniors, Alina had the federation backing but was struggling a bit, and Stanislava has always had support from the federation. When they both faltered at Euro's, Sofia's consistency is what allowed her to prevail.

So basically they gifted it to her, Sofia didn't win because she was the best that day, she won because the judges expected Alina too and when she faltered they just overlooked Sofia's tiny jumps and overscored her.

They lied to her, they made her think she had the goods to win, when all along she didn't. Why would you play with someone like that? Why would you trick them that way?

I'd rather be off the podium then be gifted a medal. A gifted medal isn't a real medal at all.

 

[Jontor]

I did, her jumps were the same as ever.

If her spark was gone, well wouldn't yours go too if you were made to look like an utter fool? No-one who saw Sofia's scores last season would ever believe she could win anything, a new fan would have a good laugh and think you were having them on.


I'm surprised certain people here didn't accuse her or Mishin of bribing the judges to win Euros!

Mishin bribing? LOL!

The story of Samodurova is very simple imo. She had one hell of a season back in 2019.

First, she managed to squeeze in at the GPs (she only had 29th seasons best and wasn't guaranteed any place). And due to various injuries in the Russian team she got two places.

She did well, she had tiny jumps, but she was consistent. And consistency can make you go far - she qualified for the GPF, beating many favourites (finished 5th with her consistency).

Then RusNats came, and the 14 year old 3A's swept the podium. The main contenders Zagitova and Medvedeva had terrible skates and Sofia with her consistency managed to finished 6th, thus making her the 3rd senior, and so she managed to squeeze in for the world team.

At Europeans, everyone had terrible skates, but Sofia, with her consistency held on - winning the gold! I think though the judges might have gone a bit overboard with her score there, but they were probably just happy to see someone skate clean!

Then at Worlds, she was consistent as usual, but didn't stand a chance cause there were better skaters there (finished 8th).

Last season, nothing changed, Sofia was still consistent, but with a lot of URs suddenly. At the same time all the others shaped up and outskated her. She couldn't squeeze in anymore.

That's the story of Sofia Samodurova. (imo)

 

[chasingneverland]

So basically they gifted it to her, Sofia didn't win because she was the best that day, she won because the judges expected Alina too and when she faltered they just overlooked Sofia's tiny jumps and overscored her.

They lied to her, they made her think she had the goods to win, when all along she didn't. Why would you play with someone like that? Why would you trick them that way?

I'd rather be off the podium then be gifted a medal. A gifted medal isn't a real medal at all.

Isn't it all down to who is the best that day though? The judges probably expected Alina to win but Sofia WAS better that day. And they didn't lie to her. Sofia did have the goods to win that particular day. Keep in mind that Anna, Aliona, and Sasha were still juniors at the time. Think of almost every medal you've ever seen handed out. Yes, politics play a role, unfortunately (although almost everyone has been recipients of gifts on one day or another) but you still have to be the best on that particular day.

 

[chasingneverland]

I think it's MUCH less that Sofia was "thrown under the bus" - she wasn't, IMHO. But more that "consistency" isn't enough anymore. Even the year when she won Euro's she only went because three of the girls who beat her (and everyone else) weren't age eligible. She just doesn't have the tech right now.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Isn't it all down to who is the best that day though? The judges probably expected Alina to win but Sofia WAS better that day. And they didn't lie to her. Sofia did have the goods to win that particular day. Keep in mind that Anna, Aliona, and Sasha were still juniors at the time. Think of almost every medal you've ever seen handed out. Yes, politics play a role, unfortunately (although almost everyone has been recipients of gifts on one day or another) but you still have to be the best on that particular day.

But if her jumps were underrotated, which apparently they always were then she wasn't the best. Someone with triples should have won instead. If you rescore Sofia with underrotations and the negative GOEs that come with them surely she's off the podium.

I love Sofia, I was so happy for her when she won. But after hearing nothing but how bad her jumps are all I can think is that the judges played me just as much they did her.

 

[Jontor]

But if her jumps were underrotated, which apparently they always were then she wasn't the best. Someone with triples should have won instead. If you rescore Sofia with underrotations and the negative GOEs that come with them surely she's off the podium.

I love Sofia, I was so happy for her when she won. But after hearing nothing but how bad her jumps are all I can think is that the judges played me just as much they did her.

I wonder, have you ever really watched figure skating at all? It was obvious that Sofia wasn't the best and the most talented. She won because of the others messed up. She deserved it though. She was the best on the day. That's how it works in sports and especially in figure skating.

 

[eterialskating]

I am just going to say that to me Alyona Kostornaya is the best ladies skater ever after Yuna Kim and I will be outraged If she is left out from the Olympic team because of skaters like Valieva, Shcherbakova and Usachyova (Hahaha) who cannot compare to her AT ALL.
Two of these Hahaha skaters were completely overscored today. Poor Sasha who is really improving these days.

I would be insulted if I were Kostornaya to be considered only second best to her third rate version. Some people seriously still pulling up her name as if its some magic incantation LOL. And where is Sasha's improvement when she still botches spins and step sequences especially the steps. People were expecting level 4 across the board since you know Plushenko knows good skating and would correct that problem.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I wonder, have you ever really watched figure skating at all? It was obvious that Sofia wasn't the best and the most talented. She won because of the others messed up. She deserved it though. She was the best on the day. That's how it works in sports and especially in figure skating.

Yes?

But I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Sofia's underrotations (which I can't see) wouldn't count as epically messing up!

You can't have it both ways, either Sofia actually skated the best that day or she was gifted the medal because somehow her underrotations were missed. In which case every judge in that competition needs retraining or eye tests.

 

[Jontor]

Yes?

But I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Sofia's underrotations (which I can't see) wouldn't count as epically messing up!

You can't have it both ways, either Sofia actually skated the best that day or she was gifted the medal because somehow her underrotations were missed. In which case every judge in that competition needs retraining or eye tests.

There were not any missed underrotations. Her jumps were tiny, yes, but she managed to squeeze them in. All the others with higher tech didn't. Sofia wasn't gifted anything, she was the best that day. She might not have been special when it comes to talented skaters but it didn't matter. We've had this conversation before today (), you need to be clean to win. Sofia was.

 

[anonymoose_au]

There were not any missed underrotations. Her jumps were tiny, yes, but she managed to squeeze them in. All the others with higher tech didn't. Sofia wasn't gifted anything, she was the best that day. She might not have been special when it comes to talented skaters but it didn't matter. We've had this conversation before today (), you need to be clean to win. Sofia was.

Well I'm happy to hear this.

I have no idea how to react to figure skating anymore. The skaters I enjoy like Liza, Sofia, Maria S are apparently way less talented than others or have huge technical problems. They can never win on their own only if others mess up.

That's why I was so excited for Sasha T, but now apparently she isn't good enough either. It's disheartening.

 

[sclloyd]

I haven’t watched all the ladies, just Kamila, Daria, and Sasha nor have I read the majority of new responses to the thread about it. But... I don’t even know what to write.

I expected a slight lag after the short for Sasha, but I think it’s absolutely insulting for her to only score 1 point higher than last year’s SB when she has so obviously improved.

Kamila was way over scored. Spins I can see, but these weren’t her best. She shouldn’t be getting 10s especially not this performance. Until the two beats where she reaches out her hands in either direction I thought that the music of the video didn’t sync properly. Her jump GOE confuses me to no end. Like I love her but that score should’ve been maybe a 79. She performed much better at test skates and the practice dress in white would’ve been more suited here (but would be too similar to Aliona’s)

Daria’s program bored me at test skates and it bores me here. She has good elements but I don’t think her spins deserves the bonuses. The lutz edge was obviously wrong. Her getting a call on it when Sasha got a call on the flip makes me upset. I’d put her maybe 77.

And then Sasha 76. Can anyone explain why her second spin was downgraded? I also haven’t looked at the protocols. I’m scared to, because it’s going to piss me off.

Sasha deserves better.

 

[Jontor]

Well I'm happy to hear this.

I have no idea how to react to figure skating anymore. The skaters I enjoy like Liza, Sofia, Maria S are apparently way less talented than others or have huge technical problems. They can never win on their own only if others mess up.

That's why I was so excited for Sasha T, but now apparently she isn't good enough either. It's disheartening.

Don't be sad about that. You can still have your favourites and cheer them on, can't you?

I was very upset today when my girl Talalaykina didn't do well. She is bloody 8th after the short! The disappointment! Hopefully she can redeem herself tomorrow (ehrm today?)

Don't count out Trusova just yet. She is one of the most talented skaters ever in Russia. I expect her to knock us out today!

 

[chasingneverland]

Well I'm happy to hear this.

I have no idea how to react to figure skating anymore. The skaters I enjoy like Liza, Sofia, Maria S are apparently way less talented than others or have huge technical problems. They can never win on their own only if others mess up.

That's why I was so excited for Sasha T, but now apparently she isn't good enough either. It's disheartening.

Sasha IS good enough though! That's the point. She might be the only skater whose destiny truly does lie in her hands. Anna, Aliona, and now Kamila don't quite have the BV to beat her when everyone is clean- although they do have other advantages, such as skating skills, musicality, spins, GOE, PCS, etc in addition to two quads (Anna and Kamila) and 3A (Aliona) that make them all very close. However, Sasha needs to be clean (as her jumps are primarily where she can get points). (And even with bonus points - she could have had one for a clean 3A today, and has so much potential for them with quads tomorrow.) A clean Sasha can beat everyone. She just has never put it all together yet. And when Sasha is clean her GOE and PCS will go up! I honestly think Sasha is her own worst enemy at times, in terms of skating clean when it really matters. We KNOW she can do it - she just hasn't yet.

 

[Jontor]

Sasha IS good enough though! That's the point. She might be the only skater whose destiny truly does lie in her hands. Anna, Aliona, and now Kamila don't quite have the BV to beat her when everyone is clean- although they do have other advantages, such as skating skills, musicality, spins, GOE, PCS, etc in addition to two quads (Anna and Kamila) and 3A (Aliona) that make them all very close. However, Sasha needs to be clean (as her jumps are primarily where she can get points). (And even with bonus points - she could have had one for a clean 3A today, and has so much potential for them with quads tomorrow.) A clean Sasha can beat everyone. She just has never put it all together yet. And when Sasha is clean her GOE and PCS will go up! I honestly think Sasha is her own worst enemy at times, in terms of skating clean when it really matters. We KNOW she can do it - she just hasn't yet.

Yes. Totally agree. Sasha can do it, we are just waiting for it to happen. And beside that bonus point she missed for the 3A, she also just missed out on a bonus for her last layback spin. You need to have +4 GOE for bonus, Sasha had 3.8 GOE. So close.

 

[chasingneverland]

Another thing too: Sasha didn't come third in the SP because of PCS. She actually got the same as Daria there. (Daria was slightly cleaner too.) She lost because of TES, which obviously she can improve. That's actually her strength. She can land the 3A more cleanly (and get the bonus mark) - she did almost fall there, improve the edge of the flip (which she has done before and Plushy can help a lot there), and hold her spin for longer.

 

[Shayuki]

Another thing too: Sasha didn't come third in the SP because of PCS. She actually got the same as Daria there. (Daria was slightly cleaner too.) She lost because of TES, which obviously she can improve. That's actually her strength. She can land the 3A more cleanly (and get the bonus mark) - she did almost fall there, improve the edge of the flip (which she has done before and Plushy can help a lot there), and hold her spin for longer.

I thought only quads got bonus points. They changed that to include the 3A too? Or perhaps 3A got bonus points all along, no one just was landing it... So 1 for 3A and 2 for quads, huh?

 

[Arbitrary]

I haven’t watched all the ladies, just Kamila, Daria, and Sasha nor have I read the majority of new responses to the thread about it. But... I don’t even know what to write.

I expected a slight lag after the short for Sasha, but I think it’s absolutely insulting for her to only score 1 point higher than last year’s SB when she has so obviously improved.

Kamila was way over scored. Spins I can see, but these weren’t her best. She shouldn’t be getting 10s especially not this performance. Until the two beats where she reaches out her hands in either direction I thought that the music of the video didn’t sync properly. Her jump GOE confuses me to no end. Like I love her but that score should’ve been maybe a 79. She performed much better at test skates and the practice dress in white would’ve been more suited here (but would be too similar to Aliona’s)

Daria’s program bored me at test skates and it bores me here. She has good elements but I don’t think her spins deserves the bonuses. The lutz edge was obviously wrong. Her getting a call on it when Sasha got a call on the flip makes me upset. I’d put her maybe 77.

And then Sasha 76. Can anyone explain why her second spin was downgraded? I also haven’t looked at the protocols. I’m scared to, because it’s going to piss me off.

Sasha deserves better.

Sasha's spins were downgraded/invalidated just because it was decided so. There is no reason required.
Pluschenko mentioned earlier that two "required" full rotations in a certain position likely not enough as "Judges rarely can see and count correctly. Better to do three rotations just to be sure."
He was right.
But regardless of what Sasha did the overall placement was decided long before.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Don't be sad about that. You can still have your favourites and cheer them on, can't you?

I can, I still want them to win or do really well, but then I feel like a jerk if I'm hoping their competitors mess up so they can. They are after all just kids trying their hardest.

 

[Ophelia]

Wow that's harsh.

Sasha hasn't lived up to the hype?
That's debatable. Anna and aliona were slightly better last season that's why Sasha had a couple third place finishes. But Sasha was only fifteen last season let's see what she does at 16 17 and 18.

No question the publicity and Hyper Sasha has been very big and it's something she's had to get used to on the fly.

No, she has not lived up to the initial (over)hype. Given the way she was held up to be the Messiah of ladies figure skating, anything less than a gold sweep was bound to be a disappointment. People here were already writing her in as OGM for Beijing and saying how she's indestructible, etc. before her senior debut. Then look at how her senior season actually turned out after that massive build-up. Her move to Plushenko says it all. The new narrative people are now trotting out is that Trusova is some poor victim who is being held down by the RusFed!

I will maintain that the Quad Queen branding and strategy worked against / is working against Trusova. Even if she does focus on improving artistry (which she isn't), she'll be at a PCS disadvantage for a long time because that branding has already boxed her in as a non-artistic, jumps-heavy skater in the judges' minds. She's painted herself into a corner with those quads.