2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Skatefan15]

Just watched the short programs and how come Shcherbakova and Usacheva’s lutz edges didn’t get called?? Also, maybe unpopular opinion but I think Elizaveta should be in the lead

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Just watched the short programs and how come Shcherbakova and Usacheva’s lutz edges didn’t get called?? Also, maybe unpopular opinion but I think Elizaveta should be in the lead

Usachyova got 3Lz! But Anna did not.

 

[brakes]

Just watched the short programs and how come Shcherbakova and Usacheva’s lutz edges didn’t get called?? Also, maybe unpopular opinion but I think Elizaveta should be in the lead

Because Anna's edge was outside.

 

[chasingneverland]

But her score is just... not right. And it wouldn’t be right even without the spin bonuses, they have nothing to do with that. How did she get a 77 (75) with a 3Lz!+2Lo<?

Well because math. They called the 3Lz2Lo clean (and it was - a turn but not ur). And with it being in the later half of the program (Liza's combo is in the first half) she scored one point less than Liza's combo. And like you said Anna did get much better levels on her step sequence and spins (and will always assuming she performs as she usually does - you yourself said she kept fighting to get her points there.

 

[flanker]

I don't think the comparison is all that fair though, Kolyada is better than Mozalev in pretty much everything: jumping technique, skating, spins.

Mozalev has more difficulty and i think will get the marks over time with more experience (this was his debut as senior skater) and more polished programs.

Anna is better than Liza in pretty much everything. And this is not the matter of current russian cup that Liza's levels on spins or stsq are going for a walk. Her score is actually completely consistent with her other scores elsewhere. You shouldn't win a program only based on 3A if other aspects outweigh it. She was good today, actually probably her best SP since the Team Trophy 2019, but overally Anna's quality is higher. She did one mistate, that was deservedly costly, but Liza made several of them, on spins, on stsq, even on combo. Every one of them was smaller, but that's how figure skating works, if small mistakes accumulate, they can easily outweigh one single, though more visible mistake.

 

[Jontor]

1) In you analysis you completely omitted that Shcherbakova's combo was a 3ltze-2lo with a 2 footed landing. That is:

- lower in bv than a 3-3 (even underrotated) as it is only 3-2.
- should get very negative GOE for the completely botched landing.
- there is an incorrect inside edge on the lutz, which also lower the Base Value AND also influence negatively GOE.

Seriously a clean 3ltz-3t with fall would be less damaging than this.

Here's what she got instead in the protocols:

- No edge call on the lutz

- somehow very lenient GOE with even a 0 for such a glaring mistake. Seriously, if judging was fair here, it should have been at least a -4, plus the lower bv because of the edge call and the doubled loop.

So the difference in scores when it comes to jumps should have been much higher actually!

We could discuss a lot about the steps sequence levels too, in regards to contents, size of the pattern, number and clarity of the turns cause they make zero sense what they called here. In my book Liza's stsq was level 3, and perhaps Anna's too.

2) Usacheva got an ! as you said (which should have also been an e), but please look at the double standards here:

- Usacheva getting an ! -> still positive GOE. (all +1 and one 0)

- Gulyakova getting an ! -> negative GOE (0, -1 and -2)

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.

In my opinion, Anna's Lutz debate which is as old as Stonehenge, are just something that people bring up just because they are not a fan of Anna's skating. My take on her Lutz is that her edge is not deep outside, but it is never inside. Anna has a deep outside edge into the jump but she flattens out in the jump moment. So it is usually slightly outside or borderline flat.
I didn't see a flat edge today. And she did get a lower BV as the second jump was a overrotated 2Lo.

I thought when I saw Usacheva today that her Lutz edge is getting better, but she still got an !. In Gulyakova's case, who has this classic rolling over to the inside, I also thought it was better today but here I was surprised it didn't get an 'e'. Clearly the judges agrees with me here and gave Gulyakova lesser GOE than Usacheva.

I think we sometimes forget that figure skating is a judging sport, and with that there will always be a difference of opinions. I, for example, have never understood Medvedeva's huge PCS and GOE scores. I just don't see it. But I accept it, because clearly I am in the minority here, and I love Zhenya anyway . But there is no point for me to criticize Zhenya's eventual Flutz or weak spins. She gets her scores according to what the majority thinks, and that is what figure skating is all about. And isn't that also what makes figure skating fascinating? We all think differently and have different tastes in what we like - or not.

 

[chasingneverland]

Just watched the short programs and how come Shcherbakova and Usacheva’s lutz edges didn’t get called?? Also, maybe unpopular opinion but I think Elizaveta should be in the lead

Daria's did get an !. And Anna's was actually either flat or slightly outside - so didn't deserve a call imo.

 

[chasingneverland]

With the scoring, I don't know enough about levels on spins and step sequence to comment. The only comparison that has me puzzled is Liza and Anna's combination GOE. Liza at -0.59 and Anna at -0.83, but Anna's mistake was much bigger?

Well because they judged the GOE based on the 3Lz2Lo not based on the fact that it should have been a 3Lz3Lo.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Because Anna's edge was outside.

Yeah with outside edge and minimal pre-rotation. Hahaha.
Anna is regressing badly and so is Kamila.
Both girls should sue their costume designer and whoever chose these boring programs of theirs.

 

[Skatefan15]

Because Anna's edge was outside.

...? It’s hard to tell from the angle but it looks flat to me. It’s better than it has been though.

 

[Tolstoj]

Anna is better than Liza in pretty much everything. And this is not the matter of current russian cup that Liza's levels on spins or stsq are going for a walk. Her score is actually completely consistent with her other scores elsewhere. You shouldn't win a program only based on 3A if other aspects outweigh it. She was good today, actually probably her best SP since the Team Trophy 2019, but overally Anna's quality is higher. She did one mistate, that was deservedly costly, but Liza made several of them, on spins, on stsq, even on combo. Every one of them was smaller, but that's how figure skating works, if small mistakes accumulate, they can easily outweigh one single, though more visible mistake.

Disagree, Liza has a better jumping technique than Anna.

It's not just the comparison though, 77 for that SP with that 3-2 with a flawed landing is way too much.

Last year she got the same score for a clean performance at Europeans, which is close to her PB.

 

[esteticlove]

Some skaters* fall on a 3Lz-3Lo and people still see them improving, others fail at the very same element and are regressing!

 

[silveruskate]

Well because they judged the GOE based on the 3Lz2Lo not based on the fact that it should have been a 3Lz3Lo.

By mistake I meant the spin out of the landing, compared to the UR from Liza. I wonder what the ISU handbook says as I haven't actually checked.

 

[brakes]

...? It’s hard to tell from the angle but it looks flat to me. It’s better than it has been though.

Fair statement.
Better then usual, outside to the latest moment, maybe flat in last of the last tenth of the second before take-off.

 

[Thrashergurl]

Great post from Plushenko!!!
Liza was also the most artistic today!!!

I was a Yagudin fan back in the day, but I always liked Plushenko and saw him skate several times. His sex bomb exhibition was hysterical and he is definitely a legend in this sport- seems maybe more appreciated outside of Russia now though.
I love that he dares to speak up about the unfair judging. I see Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski starting to call out the questionable judging at Skate America also, and it’s good that people are starting to do this. It’s good for the sport. Judge fair and let the best skater of that competition be rewarded.

 

[flanker]

Disagree, Liza has a better jumping technique than Anna.

That's your right to disagree. Though sometimes it looks rather like a duty

 

[flanker]

Some skaters* fall on a 3Lz-3Lo and people still see them improving, others fail at the very same element and are regressing!

One simple sentence that captures it perfectly

 

[chasingneverland]

Yeah with outside edge and minimal pre-rotation. Hahaha.
Anna is regressing badly and so is Kamila.
Both girls should sue their costume designer and whoever chose these boring programs of theirs.

Anna really does live in your head rent free haha. I swear you watch/comment/obsess about her and her skating more than skaters you claim to like.

 

[sclloyd]

Seriously, fans ignoring figure skating scoring system and protocols should consider changing the sport of their interest.
Open the freaking PDF and see where Tuktamysheva lost her points: IT'S ALL THERE!

https://fsrussia.ru/results/2021/3etap/eMC_K_Scores.pdf

It is “all there” but feel free to share the reasons for the lost levels. Especially on the last spin, it makes no sense to me.

 

[Fluture]

Well because math. They called the 3Lz2Lo clean (and it was - a turn but not ur). And with it being in the later half of the program (Liza's combo is in the first half) she scored one point less than Liza's combo.

Well, yes, but it makes no sense, really, that a visually clean 3Lz+3T (even if there was an UR, it isn’t as disruptive as Anna’s turn/step out) would get -0.59 while a much bigger mistake would only have a deduction of -0.83. And on top of that, Anna‘s lutz didn‘t get the ! call it would have deserved...

Also, she got better PCS than at the last competition - and for a weaker program, in what world does that make sense? I don‘t think Anna was 3 points better in PCS than Liza. Normally she easily is but today her performance/interpretation were a little off and her skating skills aren‘t good either. And even if we leave Liza out of the equation, Anna was apparently two points better than Daria, too. How?

She did one mistate, that was deservedly costly

It wasn‘t really costly, though, she got a deduction of 0.83, that’s virtually nothing.

Anyway, I have no idea why I‘m arguing. Anna will win easily tomorrow and that‘s that.