2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
BVs with level 4s:

Liza at Rostelecom - 67.97

Kamila at stage 2 - 74.31

Alëna at Rostelecom - 63.85

(If I have calculated correctly that is... ;))
So...if we list them (and adding Usacheva)

Trusova 89.82
Valieva 74.31
Shcherbakova 73.68
Tuktamysheva 67.97
Usacheva 63.85
Kostornaia 63.85

And for me, that is proof that BV doesn't matter if you can't deliver it (ehrm...Trusova), it REALLY is important to have a clean skate and collect those GOEs...
 

chasingneverland

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
So...if we list them (and adding Usacheva)

Trusova 89.82
Valieva 74.31
Shcherbakova 73.68
Tuktamysheva 67.97
Usacheva 63.85
Kostornaia 63.85

And for me, that is proof that BV doesn't matter if you can't deliver it (ehrm...Trusova), it REALLY is important to have a clean skate and collect those GOEs...
Thanks!!

Oh yeah, definitely. But I wanted to know what it was because comparing scores from competition to competition isn't exactly fair either haha.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
So...if we list them (and adding Usacheva)

Trusova 89.82
Valieva 74.31
Shcherbakova 73.68
Tuktamysheva 67.97
Usacheva 63.85
Kostornaia 63.85

And for me, that is proof that BV doesn't matter if you can't deliver it (ehrm...Trusova), it REALLY is important to have a clean skate and collect those GOEs..
The men's competition has been showing this for years. Outside of Nathan Chen, Yuzuru Hanyu (sometimes), and Shoma Uno (rarely), the men who try to land more than 3 quads in a free skate often end up low in the standings. It is very hard to have the energy to land the quads, perform, and do everything with quality. However, I think Trusova might care more about records than winning. If that is the case, she will continue to attempt her crazy layout. I hope she skates it clean at least once.
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
The men's competition has been showing this for years. Outside of Nathan Chen, Yuzuru Hanyu (sometimes), and Shoma Uno (rarely), the men who try to land more than 3 quads in a free skate often end up low in the standings. It is very hard to have the energy to land the quads, perform, and do everything with quality. However, I think Trusova might care more about records than winning. If that is the case, she will continue to attempt her crazy layout. I hope she skates it clean at least once.

Here is the main issue.
Would she succeed doing both her SP & FP clean in a single competition (even domestic), the female FS would become a completely different thing the same day.

Imagine 3A/3F//3Lz-3T(or 3Lo) and 4-5 quads in FP as a new reference. All the rest immediately going to focus to reach and pass this level.
Multiple quads, crazy combos.... multiple crashes, traumas...
 

colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
So...if we list them (and adding Usacheva)

Trusova 89.82
Valieva 74.31
Shcherbakova 73.68
Tuktamysheva 67.97
Usacheva 63.85
Kostornaia 63.85

And for me, that is proof that BV doesn't matter if you can't deliver it (ehrm...Trusova), it REALLY is important to have a clean skate and collect those GOEs...
In the cup final, Kamila is all but guaranteed 6 bonus points for her spins alone and the additional 1-2 that the GOE will give her. That's equivalent to landing three 3A/quads which is much riskier. She has a nice cushion that the top 4 BV skaters don't have, not even Anna (who got 4). PCS is not going to play a huge part here because they're similar. Anna/Kamila are in the 72-73 range where as Liza/Sasha are in the 71. It's different from last season where Anna/Alena were in the low 70s and Sasha/Liza were around 67.
 
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Alex65

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Country
Russia
In the cup final, Kamila is all but guaranteed 6 bonus points for her spins alone and the additional 1-2 that the GOE will give her. That's equivalent to landing three 3A/quads which is much riskier. She has a nice cushion that the top 4 BV skaters don't have, not even Anna (who got 4). PCS is not going to play a huge part here because they're similar. Anna/Kamila are in the 72-73 range where as Liza/Sasha are in the 71. It's different from last season where Anna/Alena were in the low 70s and Sasha/Liza were around 67.
There will be no bonuses in the Russian Cup final. As in the Russian Championship.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
If Valieva tries the 3A in the short and falls, it could her behind in the short (like Trusova when she first tried it). And she doesn't have as much quads in the free to fall back on as Trusova did have, so if she makes mistakes it might be difficult. That being said, I do expect her to win, because she'd have to make a lot of mistakes and the others be perfect. Do you think she'll do a 3A in the free, too? I wonder who the first (senior) Russian lady to do a 3A and and quads in the free skate will be. I'm eager for it.
I doubt they'll try 3A in the free. I think they will first ensure she skates clean with 2 4T in competition, and only after that they will start trying 3A in the FS. But I think they'll risk 3A in both programs at RusNats, since Kamila really has nothing to lose there, even if worlds take place.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Here is the main issue.
Would she succeed doing both her SP & FP clean in a single competition (even domestic), the female FS would become a completely different thing the same day.

Imagine 3A/3F//3Lz-3T(or 3Lo) and 4-5 quads in FP as a new reference. All the rest immediately going to focus to reach and pass this level.
Multiple quads, crazy combos.... multiple crashes, traumas...
I think the rest will try to reach this level, but this kind of physical performance is a rare gift. I really doubt ladies one day will be casually landing 5 quads in FS, it will still remain reserved to the likes of Sasha and she'll remain unique in that for some time.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
So...if we list them (and adding Usacheva)

Trusova 89.82
Valieva 74.31
Shcherbakova 73.68
Tuktamysheva 67.97
Usacheva 63.85
Kostornaia 63.85

And for me, that is proof that BV doesn't matter if you can't deliver it (ehrm...Trusova), it REALLY is important to have a clean skate and collect those GOEs...
Interesting that although Kamila does 2 quads and Anna does 1, their BV are only 0,6 points apart. That's the power of Lz-Lo combo!
By avoiding 2t Anna closes the gap quite substantially. Also, a big gap compared to Liza's BV, because Anna's content is more optimal with 1 quad, than Liza's with 2 3A.
Though, a quad gives you bigger GOE, then 3Lz.
 
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JazzUp

#янехомяк!
Medalist
Joined
May 28, 2019
I think at this point ISU must be thinking holding all finals in russia could be a solution .. it seems the only country that no matter what covid brings figure skating stills happens ...
Jokes aside, with 3 vaccines in production (and one being already distributed, with 95% success rate achieved in the final testing stage), Russia could well be the safest place to hold the competitions by March 2021.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Jokes aside, with 3 vaccines in production (and one being already distributed, with 95% success rate achieved in the final testing stage), Russia could well be the safest place to hold the competitions by March 2021.
I don't want to be overly pessimistic or a negative Nancy, but I believe even if vaccines for the whole population of the country where already produced, the vaccination process itself will take a while... So at the moment, I am really not holding out hope for JGP even in 2021
 

Lzbee

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
In the cup final, Kamila is all but guaranteed 6 bonus points for her spins alone and the additional 1-2 that the GOE will give her. That's equivalent to landing three 3A/quads which is much riskier. She has a nice cushion that the top 4 BV skaters don't have, not even Anna (who got 4). PCS is not going to play a huge part here because they're similar. Anna/Kamila are in the 72-73 range where as Liza/Sasha are in the 71. It's different from last season where Anna/Alena were in the low 70s and Sasha/Liza were around 67.
I'm curious as to why Anna doesn't get full bonuses on her spins since I only remember that they are excellent. Is she travelling on them again or have they regressed in some other way?
 

TripleAxelQueens3

sasha trusova is superior
Final Flight
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
You're fogetting that Sasha fell on both Cup events, once at stage two, twice at stage four. Anna didn't fall a single time at both stages, not that she didn't make smaller miskates, but Sasha did other mistakes apart the falls as well. That affects the components, people keep underestimating the influence of mistakes on PCS, esp when they interrupt the performance. No Anna's mistake yet affected the performance itself. In particular components, I think only SS can be considered similar, TR, PE and IN of Anna are definitely better and as for the CO, simply the programs are better built for it. Sasha's programs try to imitate the Khrustalnyi way how to gain many components from the choreo, but so far it is precisely that, imitating.
I did forget falls, sorry, and yes that makes a little more sense, but I honestly feel like Sasha's CO (definitely for the SP, probably not for the FS though) is better than Anna's. The ISU bullets for CO consist of :
1. Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood)
2. Pattern/Ice coverage
3. Multidimensional use of space and ice movements
4. Phrase and form (movements & part of the program to match the musical phrasing)
5. Originality of the composition

I'd say both get the first three bullets, and while the first half of Anna's SP definitely gains point 4, the latter half has zero connection to the music up until the ending position. In the FS, Daniil just replaced the music of the second half and changed none of the choreo, therefore definitely ridding the program of any claim to this bullet. In terms of originality... this has been brought up far too many times but Elegie is too similar to Perfume, they are both wonderful and enjoyable, but nonetheless similar. Now take Sasha's SP, there is a lot of attention to music, step sequence and beyond. The only thing that goes against this point is the cantilever, which does not match the music, but somehow it works anyways. In terms of originality, sure, maybe not the most creative thing to grace this planet, but a lot of the movements are foreign to Sasha's skating, and even in comparison to previous Eteri programs, there is a difference in the step sequence. Besides, the whole style is original to her, so I'd definitely give her that bullet. If we say each bullet is worth 2 points, then Sasha would get a 9 (.5 off for both 4 and 5) and Anna would get an 8 (1 off for 4 and 5).
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
I did forget falls, sorry, and yes that makes a little more sense, but I honestly feel like Sasha's CO (definitely for the SP, probably not for the FS though) is better than Anna's. The ISU bullets for CO consist of :
1. Purpose (idea, concept, vision, mood)
2. Pattern/Ice coverage
3. Multidimensional use of space and ice movements
4. Phrase and form (movements & part of the program to match the musical phrasing)
5. Originality of the composition

In terms of originality, sure, maybe not the most creative thing to grace this planet, but a lot of the movements are foreign to Sasha's skating, and even in comparison to previous Eteri programs, there is a difference in the step sequence. Besides, the whole style is original to her, so I'd definitely give her that bullet. If we say each bullet is worth 2 points, then Sasha would get a 9 (.5 off for both 4 and 5) and Anna would get an 8 (1 off for 4 and 5).
I'm not sure originality of composition was ever referring of it being "original" or new to a particular skater.
 
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McBibus

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Because the Chinese can host a Grand Prix Final where they sweep the podium in all events?
and in the process ISU (not the chinese) will destroy the GP reputation just to be able to say that GP took place anywau while it is not true.
 

McBibus

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Anna’s also benefitted from some very generous scoring (others have had inflation as well but I’d argue Anna’s benefitted the most) which narrows the gap.
Some time ago I had a look at the SP scores.
Anna was scored in PCS at the start of the year equals to her superb national SP and even better two weeks later with a step out.
That allows opinions of overscoring (not just for her), but while we all have the right to an opinion on the scores, I don't think it's ever right when we use it to compare scores with others and dimish someone, even unintetionally or indirecly.

Just to be clear with anybody and using my pupil as an example.
"Aliona has been overscored" it's just personal opinion.
"Aliona has been overscored and so managed to beat Katarina Witt" it's not ok because it diminishes the value of a result she (or anybody else) achieved with years of sacrifices and hard work.
 

YuBluByMe

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
"Aliona has been overscored" it's just personal opinion.
"Aliona has been overscored and so managed to beat Katarina Witt" it's not ok because it diminishes the value of a result she (or anybody else) achieved with years of sacrifices and hard work.
There’s nothing wrong with the second statement either as it’s also a personal opinion and opinions “diminish” jack squat. The perceived action - the hypothetical over-scoring - is what lessens a victory’s value, not someone telling it how they see it.
 

Shofis

Spectator
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
I know I don't post much, but I recently read an article about the late Ennio Morricone (one of my favorite composers of all time), which prompt me to listen to some of my old favorite scores, which then prompt me to think about how I'd love to see some particular skaters perform to some of his compositions and how there's not enough Ennio Morricone programs. Hence this post. As most of my dreamlike skates feature the fabulous Russian ladies, I decided to express myself here.

Here's the list of the songs/scores I'd give to each lady!

Aliona: I think The Mission main theme would suit her perfectly.
I know there's a little debate whether she is naturally musical or not. Some are completely taken by her artistry while others find her skating cold and distant. I personally think she does distance herself from the music/performance from time to time and when I had the chance to look up her novice skates (something I rarely do), it was even more painfully obvious. However, she's improved in the performance aspect since then and there are moments when she connects to the music that produce absolute magic. She comes across as genuine, charismatic, effortless and magnetic. For this, I thought "The mission" theme would suit her perfectly. It starts rather gentle and picks up to a wonderful rhythmic and powerful piece. It has enough highs and lows to showcase both aspects of her performance but it maintains the same "uplifting" feeling throughout (sans a little interlude), something that can only benefit her.

Anna: This one was rather easy. Cinema Paradiso for sure.
I cannot think of another skater I'd want to see skate to "Cinema Paradiso" more. I once read someone described it as full of both "wonder and regret". I cannot I agree more and who else better than Anna to pick up on this complex combination and perform the heck out of it. I know it's not as dynamic (having obvious lows and high highs), but it's such beautiful music and I can only dream of her skating to it one day.

Sasha: The first song that came to mind was Rabia E Tarantella from both "Inglourious Basterds" and "Allonsanfan". Bonus song: Metallica's cover of Ecstasy of Gold.
I had to think about this one a little. The first song that came to mind was "Rabia E Tarantella" but then I thought that having such an aggressive song from beginning to end for a program packed full of quads would be difficult, but I thought about it again and it really is what I'd want to see her skate to. Bonus song (maybe for an ex or something, as is rather out there): If there's one skater I can see ever going for Metallica's cover of "Ecstasy of Gold", that skater would be Sasha.

Alina: Jill's arrival from "Once Upon a Time in the West"
This one was easy as well. I want to see her skate to "Jill's arrival" from "Once Upon a Time in the West". She's proven she can perform different types of music and this particular score is one I'd love to see her perform.

Zhenya: Sacco & Vanzetti soundtrack.
She's experimented a lot recently and so I had a hard time thinking what I wanted to see from her. I'm also confident that she can perform a wide range of emotions, so if I had to pick what I'd like to see her skate to (from Ennio Morricone), it would be a mash up of different songs from the soundtrack of the tragic yet moving film "Sacco & Vanzetti".

Kamila: Unsure, but maybe HS2.
I have to confess I'm not familiar enough with Kamila to pick a song for her. I immediately thought of the sweet "HS2", but maybe that's more young Anna territory than Kamila. I'd have to think about it more.
 
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