2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter flanker
- Start date
- Status
And the RusNats-2021 is still planned?
Half turn on take off is only allowed with edge jumps. For toepick jumps, only 1/4 rotation is allowed
A toe loop with 180 degrees is common and correct. So, source?
Just because something is common does not mean it is correct.
My source is the Technical Handbook from the ISU. It is a download document so I can't link the page, but here is a copy & paste I made for you to adapt your knowledge: "A clear forward (backward for Axel type jump) take-off will be considered as a
downgraded jump. The toe loop is the most commonly cheated on take-off jump.
The TP may only watch the replay in regular speed to determine the cheat and
downgrade on the take off (more often in combinations or sequences)."
Just because you've read a manual superficially, doesn't mean that you're correct. There's a history to these jumps, and you can begin by watching this: https://youtu.be/SFuqfagJDjQ
Here's a resource that clearly states that a pivot on a toe loop is fine: https://icoachskating.com/toe-loop-myths-clarified-video-examples-trevor-laak/
Here is a full 180 degree pivot on a 4T.
https://icoachskating.com/jason-brown-quad-toe-loop-analysis-trevor-laak/
Here's a resource on all jumps: http://www.skatingjumpsecrets.com/download/jump_manual.pdf
Even in the source you've linked they say a forward take off is a cheated take off - the interpretation of that is toe axels are cheated. But I'll ask you - if a forward take off interpreted as 180 degrees on take off is incorrect, why did you say that edge jumps are fine for 180 degrees? And where does that source say that toe jumps are fine for lower than 90 degrees only?
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
The only quad she was landing was a 3.5 floop... with 38 kg.
Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
Poor Alyona. She deserves to be the best by a big margin.
It is the official lecture from the ISU, not a random booklet, so you can rest assured that it speaks the truth.
I replied the source to a post in which you said that "forward takeoff is fine and common".
The whole ISU rules use quarter rotations for descriptions. You will never read 3/5th of a rotation in their rules, which leads the fact that 1/4th rotation is fine, whereas 1/2 rotation is not (thats 180° to specify).
They explicitly stated that Axel would have a cheated backwards takeoff, and the other jumps a cheated forward takeoff.
If you can't accept an official rulebook from the official ISU website (or are too lazy to read it yourself, because then you would also understand that they state that ANY jump that misses 1/2 rotation in the air is considered a downgrade anyway regardless of takeoff or landing, so in fact the whole discussion here is nit picking) then I'm sorry but I can't help you with that.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
Also to interject, most people also prerotate on axel 0.25-0.5
Hanyu, Fernandez, Kolyada etc all do this.
Here demonstrates 0.25 revolutions on a Kolyada 3A: https://youtu.be/MjTq-Vf-bIk?t=22
And here you see roughly 180 degrees prerotation done by Javier Fernandez on 3A: https://youtu.be/c0MQGI6aDkk?t=15
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
Y’all discussing rules, I’m just amazed how Nadya can pivot any discussion in the world towards prerotation. That’s some talent right there.
You have a natural pre-rotation on the toeloop, as you have your right foot in front of you and you pick with the left foot, that makes it natural to make half a turn with your whole body before you take off.
Lutzes and Flips are different though. You have your left foot in front of you and you pick with the right foot. That makes it much more difficult to pre-rotate the jump. You can twist your upper body (which is the technique that are most common today, and Eteri students are experts on that), and it might look like pre-rotation, but if you look at the foot leaving the ice it is not.
This is also the reason why Lutzes and Flips have higher BVs than Toeloops. (Lutz almost 50% more). Toeloops are always half a turn less rotated.
Lutzes and Flips are different though. You have your left foot in front of you and you pick with the right foot. That makes it much more difficult to pre-rotate the jump. You can twist your upper body (which is the technique that are most common today, and Eteri students are experts on that), and it might look like pre-rotation, but if you look at the foot leaving the ice it is not.
This is also the reason why Lutzes and Flips have higher BVs than Toeloops. (Lutz almost 50% more). Toeloops are always half a turn less rotated.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
Eteri girls do prerotate on the ice though on lutz with their feet about 1/2- sometimes more. and not just Eteri girls , many ladies and men in general.
ISU reverted back the lutz point values where they are higher point value. Trusova was an outlier she wants to land all the quad jumps; Shcherbakova doesn't appear to have that same mentality so Eteri and team wisely kept her quads to the 2 highest valued quads the flip and the lutz. The good thing about having the flip is that if Shcherbakova's lutz edge gets more problematic they can switch 1 of the lutz jumps for another flip; she had landed the quad toe before her leg break but I haven't seen any video or interview of her landing it since the leg break occurred. Her interview in the off-season mentioned their focus was on the triple axel, which makes logical sense vs. getting another quad that would have to be loaded into FS, whereas the triple axel she could do that in the SP.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2013
Anybody has news about pre Test en St Petesburg? Liza and Sofía.. and Mikhail!
- Status
