2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 346 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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I didn't try to police your comments or their relevancy, sorry. Since we got into the conversation at all, I was trying to make my side clear, hence why I kept saying "you can discuss forward take offs if you want".
You can however stop telling me 'you are confused' for example, or say that I'm policing you. Be, idk, a little charitable. :)

... I wasn't looking at the comment from the prism of my conversation with him. Literally what he said was that the tech panel can interpret "forward take offs" as "pre rotation as found in regular toe loops and salchows". He said it's literally not applied because of this ambiguity. This is the distinction he made that I don't think you got. That there is a problem of ambiguous language, that you can dispute, but exists nonetheless, and so the TP tends to ignore it altogether. And yes, this does happen. GS did an interview that I'll have to find.
Anyways I'm more than happy to chat in private, but I don't want to derail this thread even more than I already have.
 
The next few competitions are going to be interesting, but not cause too many issues for Sasha.
The Olympic team contenders realistically are Sasha, Alena, Anna , Kamila. Sasha just needs to stay ahead of one consistently throughout the season, which is certainly doable.

The main question is the progress each girl makes in the run up to 2022. This season im actually starting to see Kamila as a challenger for the illusive Olympic gold medal.
Sasha's main advantage is her quad repitiour, so she needs to practice going clean with extra quads as buffer to kamila's spins and PCS, but it can be a double edged sword if Sasha goes for more quads but makes mistakes that lower her score significantly.

It was the 3As. Now it's 3A and a K.

I love sherbakova skating but I really don't like her jumps. Feel free to block/ignore me - I've mentioned her jumps a couple of times, but I've said all I needed to say about them and no point to drone on about them. And I appreciate sherbakova other qualities.

What I'm fascinated by is the fact nobody mentions Medvedevas technique as much when she was at Orser. I like to have same standards for everybody, and whilst Sherbakova had her jump issues everybody who has those issues should be scrutinized just as much.
If Olympics were to be postponed by a year, how would Olympic team contenders look like?
I'd say Sofia S. becomes a very good candidate by that time.
15 y.o., boundless energy, consistency, 3A and rippon 4S, good spins and skating skills. She would probably nail 4T too by then. Would be very hard to compete with her.
 
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Translated from a Russian site:
Eteri's students often have a problem with the lutz edge, but Zhilina has no problems with this.
In the video posted on Evgeny Plushenko's Instagram, Nika jumps with the cleanest outside edge and rotates the whole jump in the air, without rotating first on the ice. In the Tutberidze group, they often try to simplify the technique, because of that the quality of the element may suffer. So Lutz Veronica would hardly have been able to show, staying in "Khrustalny".
 
If Olympics were to be postponed by a year, how would Olympic team contenders look like?
I'd say Sofia S. becomes a very good candidate by that time.
15 y.o., boundless energy, consistency, 3A and rippon 4S, good spins and skating skills. She would probably nail 4T too by then. Would be very hard to compete with her.
Her 4S is a little shaky and her toeloop isn't the best, but she'd again make up with the PCS and the 3A.

Anything could happen.
 
Anna's points inflated? Well, she got 5 bonus points that are not used in international skating, it's just the Russian Cup rules. Other than that she was home scored, that's all. And just you wait for it, I'm pretty sure that both Kamila's and Sasha's and Evgenia's points will be home scored too. Don't you worry.

And remember, Kamila will probably get +6 bonus points for her excellent spins, that's the Russian Cup rules. Sasha won't.

Agree, I think everyone is forgetting about the bonus points situation; I think Shcherbakova's scores looked so high because she was far and away doing the most difficult content and really the only skater at the first cup event that really has international senior experience + she's the 2-time senior national champ, I don't think any of the other skaters there have podiumed at Nationals. I think most the national team skaters especially the big names will get similar inflation amounts.

Below is a breakdown difference between the 2 competitions, her SP, once you take out the bonus points her scores were almost identical, and her PCS between the 2 competitions were minimally different.

Nationals 2020Russian Cup Event
SP TES43.8644.93 *Includes the 2 Bonus points
SP PCS36.0737.20
SP Total Score79.9382.13
FS TES108.2290.03 *Includes 3 Bonus points
FS PCS73.7274.24
FS Total Score181.94164.27
 
Yeah, on the other hand 4S came after a few months of non-skating time. Not only did she manage not to lose anything due to pandemic break, but added 4S on top quite quickly. A very promising sign.
Tuktamysheva has proven that learning a quad isn't all that time-consuming, the question remains about their consistency of the jumps in competition, it's similar to Trusova and the "5 quad program" it doesn't much matter that you can do it in practice if competition time rolls around and you can't do it, I think someone mentioned on here that Gulyakova has shown clips of her landing a triple axel for 3 years but has yet to put it in competition.
 
Well, if someone there deserves to have a little fun in training, that's Alina. I would say she has more than earned it. 😉
More to the point is that people are allowed to have fun. People are in control of their own training, and they should work as hard as they are motivated to or not. We shouldn't judge people, as people skate for different reasons.

I honestly can't think of any punishment worse than ice skating training daily if somebody did not enjoy skating. Putting yourself through all the pain and boredom for something you didn't like doing. Occasionally people just need to relax and remind themselves why they became skaters.
 
I wouldn't call Anna's PCS score "egregiously high" as her total PCS score was only about 1,5 points higher than she got at RusNats last year. A rise is expected in PCS from year to year, and this seemed reasonable to me.

Kamila (and I'm sure Sasha) will of course also get a boost - we'll see where it lands.
Consider what 1.5 boost over a stellar nationals performance means when you're at the beginning of a season with an unpolished program that you've never competed before with means though. Anya's Perfume got what, 65-67, roughly first few times around? (excluding the very very first competition where every single program was super underscored) I'd also consider excessive GOE for things as part of overscoring.

If they overscore Kamila they way they did Anya but don't give that grace to anyone else, including Sasha, then I'd have a massive problem. Should they overscore their front runners, maybe it is not as startling and even expected. I expect Kamila to have high PCS. If she is getting all 9.25 and 9.5 or, +4/+5 I think we can have a discussion about what scoring actually means.

Like you said, we'll see where it lands. But it is much harder for Sasha to compete with artificially inflated PCS because it is not her strength. Whereas someone will see Kamila's scores and say "they are not artificially inflated, they are deserved" simply because her components are better than Sasha's.

We shall see soon who the Fed really favors.
 
Volkov's group exhibition at "Khrustalnyi" 10-year anniversary (2013). Guess the girl in blue top and jeans (answer at 2:40 mark). :biggrin:


 
You think Aliona has no chance?

Well... please note that this is just my opinion and what I am saying now it is not to start a discussion which one of those amazing ladies is the most talented or has the best skills and that I try to put aside my personal preferences in that matter.

Pointwise, Kamila is an upgraded version of Anna and Alena: she has jumps, she has GOE and PCS and great PR. Sasha Trusova is a record breaker, even if she has little skating skills and pops 1 or 2 quads, she will still place ahead everyone in terms of base value. So, unless one of them is injured I do not really think that Kostornaia has a chance. I think this COVID situation hurt her the most: it was her year, she'd probably be a World Champion by now.

I hope it is not a stupid question, but shouldn't Russians have 3 spots, not 2?
 
You think Aliona has no chance?

I think Kostornaia certainly has a chance but its a bit concerning that of the girls with the ultra-difficult elements she's the 1 that hasn't yet recovered her's, and she's the one that gets touted out as having 'better technique'. Additionally, it was mentioned on this board when the Eteri skaters did that show in February that she seemed to struggle with her jumps then. If we are looking strictly off what we know today and were making the Olympic team, then yes she's left off at this point due to not having a quad or triple axel to compete, but selection for the Olympic team is what 14-15 months away so a lot of things can change in that timeframe.
 
Pointwise, Kamila is an upgraded version of Anna and Alena: she has jumps, she has GOE and PCS and great PR.
Kamila has better SS than Anna and she has 4T that Aliona doesn't - but that doesn't mean she is an upgraded version of both.
Technique wise - Alena has (or at least had 3 clean 3As) in one competition; even I'm not a fan of Anna and her jumping techniques - she was able to land 3 nearly clean, more difficult quads in one program, which Kamila is not yet close to do so.

PCS wise - while Kamila has great SS in her age, her performance looks always rush. Rushing from one element to another and not listening to music.
 
Well... please note that this is just my opinion and what I am saying now it is not to start a discussion which one of those amazing ladies is the most talented or has the best skills and that I try to put aside my personal preferences in that matter.

Pointwise, Kamila is an upgraded version of Anna and Alena: she has jumps, she has GOE and PCS and great PR. Sasha Trusova is a record breaker, even if she has little skating skills and pops 1 or 2 quads, she will still place ahead everyone in terms of base value. So, unless one of them is injured I do not really think that Kostornaia has a chance. I think this COVID situation hurt her the most: it was her year, she'd probably be a World Champion by now.

I hope it is not a stupid question, but shouldn't Russians have 3 spots, not 2?
I am not going to say positively I think she can win, because we haven't seen her this season, and she had far less time to prepare than everyone else for test skates given the coaching change. However, rumor is that the 3A is restored, and Plushenko is pushing the quads. We haven't seen these elements and what matters it what happens in competition. But to me, Aliona with quads and a 3A will be unbeatable, even by Kamila. She has an innate performative ability that imo no one can really take away. It is not even inherent to skating skills or any other PCS component which of course she excels in, but rather something *extra*.

I also am curious if Kamila's quads will last? She is already very tall and her technique is a little scary if I'm being honest (someone can quote this and complain about how I'm wrong, we've had this discussion before and I will not rehash). Or rather, if they do last, will she be able to maximize them the way Sasha can? Aliona's 3A was solid, her 3F is so roomy that even at the show in February she only fell because she could not control its height and speed. It was TOO high, TOO fast, covered TOO much ice. I don't see her long term having issues with it because she is, save the periodic edge issues when she's nervous actually a very good jumper technically, if not completely textbook 100% of the time. And her landings don't seem to be as forceful as Anya's or Kamila's. And Anya... also something there performance wise like Aliona, if not a little more academic but she has a mental block with the 3A challenging her now. So much potential that one imagines, what if all 4 get quads and the 3A? Then it is only a matter of the day, isn't it? No way to know who will win. Though this is of course all speculation.

And anyways, it is only a question of curiosity. I cannot bear to think that any of the four will miss out on the Olympics. It makes me wish the way qualifications are done would be reworked. IMO this merits a broader discussion. Yes, Russia gets three positions. But they deserve more.

My opinion is that the qualifications should be based on world ranking and then nationality. So pull the top ten skaters automatically. If it is all Russians, Japanese, Koreans then so be it. And then every nation gets the number of spots they would normally get in the current system UNLESS they have already maximized those spots in the top 10. So if the world rankings have Aliona, Anya, Sasha, and Kamila as the top four, then they get those four spots. They have surpassed their three. If the Americans get two spots and only Tennell is in the top ten, then they select a second skater to add. This should also extend to gymnastics, where the Americans get screwed the way the Russians do in figure skating. Where qualifying for the national team is harder than medaling at worlds. But I only dream ):
 
PCS wise - while Kamila has great SS in her age, her performance looks always rush. Rushing from one element to another and not listening to music.


You see PCS can be divided into two categories

1. Subjective which are performance and interpretation which i highlighted on your post- There are bullets laid out on how to judge this category but unfortunately it can be interpreted from person to person. There are just so much external factors that can directly affect someone's ability to interpret it even with laid out bullets. It is just the nature of those categories and nothing really can be done.

2. Objective which are skating skills, transitions, composition- this is something you can actually judge clearer based on the actual skills the skater is showing. Although the room to be subjective is definitely there.

I guess my point is that I don't take someone's opinion seriously on a skaters PCS if they are only basing it on performance.
 
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Trusova's finished training under Rosanov and not yet going to Volkov.
I think the game is over.
 
Trusova's finished training under Rosanov and not yet going to Volkov.
I think the game is over.

Wait is this real?

I know it was odd when news came out that Trusova wasn't part of Rozanov group when her main reason of moving to Plushenko was to follow him.
 
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