2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[anonymoose_au]

All in all, it was just ONE point more than if she had done a perfect 2A, and that is not the judges fault or the Russian Federation.

Then why even bother doing it?! On the one hand they demand these girls do these super hard super dangerous elements and then when they do with a mistake they turn around and say "Oh no, it's how well you do your elements."

Sasha should call their bluff, she can do triples in her sleep. She should do a perfect program of only triples.

Do you think she'd get Kamila's TES if she did though? Spoiler alert: She would not.

 

[esteticlove]

And Anna's combo at the first stage was messy as Hell, but did they hammer her score? Nope.

Why is it good enough for some, but not others? Either overscore everyone or admit your bias.

If the Russian Fed wants to admit that they're favouring Kamila and Daria then at least I can respect them for being honest. Right now they're just lower than dirt and disgusting excuse for a so-called professional sports body.

Sorry, if I remember correct, Anna's problem on the combo was that the landing was tight and she came to a standstill before fully exit the jump? So, the exiting glide wasn't fine which is supposed to reduce GOE, but it can not be compared with a big mistake like a step-out... And how Anna came into this discussion, when she was not even competing in the competition today? Seriously, I think Sasha's score was fine. As I said she left some points here and there, and those are minor things like rotating your spin fully and executing the StepSeq better. With a little bit more practice, this can be fixed by the next competition.

 

[readernick]

If you get the same score in a national competition, that you would get internationally that is fair scoring. Trusova was scored fairly. However, unless you are Japanese (they are harsh to their own skaters) it also means that you are no longer a favorite with the federation. (see Sasha's overscoring in the past) She made improvements in her PCS, but got no improvement in PCS. Outside of the 3A, Sasha's jumps are better quality than Daria's and Valieva's but didn't get the same insanely high GOE. She didn't get the crazy favorable scoring that Anna did two weeks ago. Clear edge issues, and URs ignored (or called q in the LP when they were more than a quarter UR) , high GOE on ever element. Daria and Valieva were overscored on essentially every element. Valieva was also overscores in PCS. (10s really???) , Trusova was scored properly, and in this competition that isn't enough.

Sasha can only hope they make mistakes in the LP. Otherwise, she is going to be third. She isn't getting federation backing anymore.

 

[silveruskate]

To be fair, the ! and lost marks on the spin were true judgements. I think she can fix the ! easily, and the spin...it was just one extra turn around she didn't do because she was keeping up with the music. No one can say she doesn't listen to the music anymore. It cost her a point because she was. Without these two errors she would have 2 extra points and be around 78.

The problem with RusFed is that they boosted her PCS so much at RusNats last year for her SP (34.83), so now when she is performing so much better we understandably expect a big increase in PCS score. But this is where the problem is, since I do think Kamila deserves better PCS than Sasha (compared to Kamila, Usacheva was underscored in PCS to be honest and should be the same as her). If they give Sasha a 36 for example, well then they have to give Kamila a 38 which is problematic. It is their own fault for giving PCS like candy that they cannot differentiate properly between their own skaters.

In past years they have depressed PCS scores for juniors. But because the Olympics is so soon they're not doing it now with Kamila. Also for Daria they're not, although they are doing it slightly as she has the same PCS as Sasha. We just have to deal with it.

Quoting myself, embarrassing I know...but as it was said above too, she lost another point for her step sequence which would bring Sasha to 78.5-79. Without bonuses Daria is at 77, Kamila at 82.

 

[anonymoose_au]

And how Anna came into this discussion, when she was not even competing in the competition today?

Because it's not fair! They're saying to Anna "Oh don't worry, we know you're better than that" and they're saying to Sasha "You better be perfection or we'll penalise you within an inch of your life."

Doesn't that make you angry?!

 

[esteticlove]

My impression from the last season is (not only for the national competitions, but also for the international ones) - if you want to bring an ultra-c element, fine. But do it right, otherwise you will get penalized for that. I think to some extent this was also the idea of the -5/+5 GOE system, since the men were constantly crashing on their quads and still scoring high. As if people forgot how Aliona jumped perfect 3As and they kept getting called underrotated or whatever at the beginning. THIS was outrageous and not giving a minus GOE to a step-out.

 

[Jontor]

Then why even bother doing it?! On the one hand they demand these girls do these super hard super dangerous elements and then when they do with a mistake they turn around and say "Oh no, it's how well you do your elements."

Sasha should call their bluff, she can do triples in her sleep. She should do a perfect program of only triples.

Do you think she'd get Kamila's TES if she did though? Spoiler alert: She would not.

Yes, why bother doing it? THAT is the right question. You have to be super solid to even attempt these 3A's and quads because if you underrotate the score immediately gets hammered, and if you fall, you lose a LOT of points.

Trusova loves to do these difficult elements, and she is a superstar in Russia for attempting them. But that is not what the sport of figure skating really is all about. You should do your elements cleanly, then you get the scores. Kostornaia won everything last year because of that (except Nationals). So this is nothing new really, we had this scenario with Sasha all season long last year.

 

[Tolstoj]

Wake us up when Trusova performs her "way more difficult technical content" clean. Had she landed the triple axel without the disruptive step-out she would have scored better, but that was the comment last year in regards to the quads.

You think so? Cause based on scores here Trusova would have lost even with a clean 3A which is beyond ridiculous.

I mean props to the girls for continuining really cause i'm the kind of person that if i put the work in order to win with more difficulty than my competitors, improving the artistry also, i expect to be above or very close at the very least.

The fact that not only Trusova is behind, but behind 10 points! makes it very clear there is no competition for any skater and it's not because of deficiencies from the others but because very much they want all spots to be from that group and no one else. Basically Irina Viner system.

Even if you go for the most difficult programs artistically and technically, they'll never give you the components and they'll make up some wrong edge and underrotation with a super strict judging while we're totally ignoring Valieva's poor low level take-off in the combination (both on the lutz, and the toe after with the change of edge in between which wasn't allowed in the past, dunno now) or Usacheva's change of edge in the solo lutz.

Remember Sochi's judging super strict on Mao's jumps and some fake calls on spins and stsq for Yuna and Caro but all good for Sotnikova? same here.

 

[esteticlove]

Quoting myself, embarrassing I know...but as it was said above too, she lost another point for her step sequence which would bring Sasha to 78.5-79. Without bonuses Daria is at 77, Kamila at 82.

Yes, exactly. If everything else besides the 3A was fine, Sasha would have scored at around 79P. This is how much Alina and Anya got at the GPF last year, with perfectly clear programs + 3Lz-3Lo combos. If you compare those three performances, do you still find Sasha's score low?

 

[esteticlove]

Also, RussNationals last year....Anna was like 10P behind Aliona, but thanks to a clean FP she won. Nothing is lost for Sasha until tomorrow.

 

[readernick]

My impression from the last season is (not only for the national competitions, but also for the international ones) - if you want to bring an ultra-c element, fine. But do it right, otherwise you will get penalized for that. I think to some extent this was also the idea of the -5/+5 GOE system, since the men were constantly crashing on their quads and still scoring high. As if people forgot how Aliona jumped perfect 3As and they kept getting called underrotated or whatever at the beginning. THIS was outrageous and not giving a minus GOE to a step-out.

Aliona's first couple 3A in international competition were UR. She improved her rotation position and she stopped UR by GPF. However, that is international judging. This is Russian national judging. At the same time they are fairly scoring Sasha (yes, her score is correct) they are giving their favorites 10 points over what they would receive internationally. They call her technical issues, but ignore Valieva's , Anna's ( she has a lot), and Daria's. This is the issue.

 

[Jontor]

Because it's not fair! They're saying to Anna "Oh don't worry, we know you're better than that" and they're saying to Sasha "You better be perfection or we'll penalise you within an inch of your life."

Doesn't that make you angry?!

I am pretty sure Sasha will beat Anna's free score from Stage One tomorrow. If she can skate clean like Anna did.

 

[Scott512]

Look, the Feds all have their pets and the ones they would rather not know about; look at the US and Japan as well as Russia. Nothing the non-favoured can do their damndest to except be obviously better than the pets.

By saying pets you are degrading the great skaters Russia has in ladies.

Kamila is causing mayhem with her amazing array of talent. Negativity towards her needs to stop.

Sasha is just that and she controls her destiny tomorrow.

For early in the season and in a pandemic and not having a normal offseason of training Sasha is looking so good.

Stage 2 of the Russian cup does not mean that much to who finishes first or second it will have no bearing on Nationals or Europeans or worlds if we get that far this year.

 

[Jontor]

My impression from the last season is (not only for the national competitions, but also for the international ones) - if you want to bring an ultra-c element, fine. But do it right, otherwise you will get penalized for that. I think to some extent this was also the idea of the -5/+5 GOE system, since the men were constantly crashing on their quads and still scoring high. As if people forgot how Aliona jumped perfect 3As and they kept getting called underrotated or whatever at the beginning. THIS was outrageous and not giving a minus GOE to a step-out.

Yes, I think the +5/-5 system the ISU implemented was a genius move of ISU. Finally, we get reasonable scores.

I remember I watched figure skating with non fans that don't know much - they could never understand why the person who fell once, sometimes even twice, was winning. I think that the +5/-5-system has corrected that error. It may not be fully optimal yet, but we're getting there.

 

[silveruskate]

Yes, exactly. If everything else besides the 3A was fine, Sasha would have scored at around 79P. This is how much Alina and Anya got at the GPF last year, with perfectly clear programs + 3Lz-3Lo combos. If you compare those three performances, do you still find Sasha's score low?

Comparing inside this competition, I don't find Sasha's low, but Kamila's score was too high. Forgetting about Sasha, a 3 point distance between Daria and Kamila is too high when they're doing the same program and both went clean. It should be more like a 1 point difference.

 

[Scott512]

Then why even bother doing it?! On the one hand they demand these girls do these super hard super dangerous elements and then when they do with a mistake they turn around and say "Oh no, it's how well you do your elements."

Sasha should call their bluff, she can do triples in her sleep. She should do a perfect program of only triples.

Do you think she'd get Kamila's TES if she did though? Spoiler alert: She would not.

Relax tomorrow will be fun and Sasha should do fine. Sasha always has a great chance to be on the Olympic team because of her scoring potential. Even If the Fed loves Anna and KV more Sasha can always snatch victory from anybody.

What time your time did you get to bed? My guess is 4 a.m..

 

[Tolstoj]

 

[Jontor]

Aliona's couple 3A in international competition were UR. She improved her rotation position and she stopped UR by GPF. However, that is international judging. This is Russian national judging. At the same time they are fairly scoring Sasha (yes, her score is correct) they are giving their favorites 10 points over what they would receive internationally. They call her technical issues, but ignore Valieva's , Anna's ( she has a lot), and Daria's. This is the issue.

You failed to mention the Bonus points that we have here in the Russian Cup events. Without those Anna, Kamila and Daria would have scored a lot less, and if Sasha had been clean she would have been in the lead. So they are not scoring "10 points more" compared to international events. It's the bonus system that makes it look bigger.

 

[TallyT]

By saying pets you are degrading the great skaters Russia has in ladies.

Not degrading the skaters, but the system they are a part of. I have other terms for officialdom's favoured in all sports, but trust me, you do NOT want to hear them.

 

[readernick]

You failed to mention the Bonus points that we have here in the Russian Cup events. Without those Anna, Kamila and Daria would have scored a lot less, and if Sasha had been clean she would have been in the lead. So they are not scoring "10 points more" compared to international events. It's the bonus system that makes it look bigger

Even without the bonus points. Valieva got 8 points higher than she has ever gotten in international competition, and Daria got 6 points more. Trusova got exactly what she would get internationally