2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Magill]

Well, there are all the (not even russian) swimmers with asthma and they make it work somehow, so sure there are legal and doping free ways for this.

No, when your asthma is diagnosed and certified you may undergo a procedure and be allowed to take medications which are banned for everyone else as doping. There was a huge discussion of it when a bunch of asthmatic skiers were winning gold after gold a few years ago.

 

[Scott512]

And all of a sudden it's not allowed to talk about Anna's health, when mental and physical health is the only thing that is always being discused in sport Yeah, her fans now feel pressured because they know how ignorant her choice was and now they want to shut down everybody who dares to mention it
And btw, at 16, you're not a child anymore

Why don't you talk about how great she KV and Sasha were at Russian nationals? That's the real story as well as many other ladies doing all time bests for themselves.

 

[flanker]

Did you make it out of the police student Academy?

Maybe the Russian figure skating federation should hire you as some kind of security or something.

I came through everything, law, criminalistics, self-defence, shooting training. But it's 15 years ago, my life took a different way than I thought originally.

But I think my former trainings can help me to understand what the athletes feel, and what the coaches do, something about physical and moral preparations etc.

 

[Fried]

Do these others also get such a brutal PR campaign?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJWEMmFJdDEfanvSaDKy_SwqZsu-SrfA6aE3IA0/?igshid=4klygmc4boi7

On the one hand I find it commendable that Eteris face was not placed in the middle, on the other hand I find the idea extremely tempting that someone is putting Sasha's head in place instead of Eteris.

 

[FelineFairy]

when mental and physical health is the only thing that is always being discused in sport

Oh yeah? I thought fans discuss competitions, achievements, chances, the beauty and adrenaline of all that. To discuss somebody's mental and physical health, as an "only thing", (moreover, making wild guesses about it) is more like gossiping.

 

[Scott512]

I came through everything, law, criminalistics, self-defence, shooting training. But it's 15 years ago, my life took a different way than I thought originally.

But I think my former trainings can help me to understand what the athletes feel, and what the coaches do, something about physical and moral preparations etc.

All that training was probably very hard. What you are probably a better and tougher human being for it.

 

[Amei]

But this is the problem: My sketched power rankings for that team after RusNats:

1. Anna SHCHERBAKOVA
2. Kamila VALIEVA
3. Aleksandra TRUSOVA
4. Alyona KOSTORNAYA
5. Daria USACHEVA
6. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA
7. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
8. Alina ZAGITOVA (if she feels like it)
9. Maya KHROMYKH
10. Elizaveta NUGUMANOVA

And just behind Nugu a couple of Mishin girls (Samodurova, Gulyakova) and couple of Davydov girls (Tsibinova, Frolova) and maybe Talalaikina. I'm just thinking of Nugu here. She really wants those GP spots and I want her to have them.

Medvedeva and Zagitova at most should have an opportunity for the reserve team, Kolyada missed all of last year due to surgery and he was relegated to the reserve team this year, and the Ruasian men need him a lot more than the ladies need Zagitova and Medvedeva.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Okay I just want to say that just because Sofia skated with fever and Liza and Veronika had Covid and Anna has pneumonia doesn’t make any certain case correct solely because someone else did a similar thing. None of them should have been at whatever event they were at.

 

[Fried]

Okay I just want to say that just because Sofia skated with fever and Liza and Veronika had Covid and Anna has pneumonia doesn’t make any certain case correct solely because someone else did a similar thing. None of them should have been at whatever event they were at.

Before you have your face polished at the police school, you can't have a say at all.

 

[Thrashergurl]

If you’re trying to push the narrative that people expressing concern is hating on skaters, then I think that speaks volumes about your own biases.
Since when has discussing a skaters behavior, actions and health been a subject people can’t discuss? Because I see many posts on this forum about exactly that.

A few posters are trying to dictate and bully others that express concern because it’s not fitting into their narrative. That’s very concerning on a message board that is full of opinions.

 

[starlight97]

So IF worlds happen and everyone wants to go, Alena and Liza will have to fight it out for the 3rd spot at some B competition in Russia?

 

[Novalis]

So IF worlds happen and everyone wants to go, Alena and Liza will have to fight it out for the 3rd spot at some B competition in Russia?

Russian cup final in late February is the competition in question

 

[Ziotic]

Let’s be real....worlds isn’t happening.

 

[Novalis]

Let’s be real....worlds isn’t happening.

Well, there could be options, postponing, moving locations, other creative solutions. Who knows.

 

[chasingneverland]

I share many of your opinions, and agree with most. However, in some of your posts (not only the quoted one) I would like to clarify what culture you mean - the culture of supporting competitive sports regardless of its possible cruelty or do you mean Russian national culture?
If it is the former, I would say we are still ancient Romans. Everything we enjoy is in a way connected to sportsmen/artists/actors/writers/poets/dancers etc. hard efforts, usually to the brink of suffering. Ever watched ice hockey? And there are junior teams there, too. If we agree that over-exertion should be banned, then we should stop enjoying late Beethoven and Van Gogh. That's a bit far-fetched of course, I am just driving that line of thought to its logical climax.
If it is the latter, I just ask you to think again.

The culture of medals being worth everything regardless of that it takes along the way. The culture of athlete's being expendable as "offerings" to that ultimate goal - gold medals. The culture that promotes dangerous endangerment for the sake of winning, regardless of the cost to the athlete. It's a culture that makes it easy to foster abusive and dangerous environments due to a singular goal. It's a culture that excuses everything as the ends justifies the means.

By no means is that limited to Russian figure skating, there have been plenty of instances of physical/mental/emotional abuse of athletes from other nationalities. It's not even restricted to figure skating - other sports, gymnastics, for example (see US gymnastics, amongst others.) It's just particularly easy to go to extremes with sports like figure skating and gymnastics, particularly with female athletes, as their peaks is so relatively short, and the athletes so young when they reach it that the imbalance of power and their own personal advocacy can become lost, particularly as they have even less life experience/perspective to draw upon.

 

[chasingneverland]

Fair enough, but I would also argue there's one more group responsible.

Us, the fans.

When we praise what Anna, or Sasha, or Liza, or Zhenya Med or Yuzu at the Olympics or any skater competing with serious injury/illness we are glorify this behaviour. We are saying "We admire you, what you did is great! You're a hero!"

We're encouraging them to continue, because everyone loves praise and wants to be admired. It's what peer pressure is all about, people can be convinced to do all sorts of things under its influence, bully others, engage in risky behaviour all sorts of stuff.

People may be criticising Anna on this board, but is anyone doing so in real life? Have her parents or coaches or even teammates told her what a bad idea it was? Has anyone told Sasha or Liza for that matter?

No way! And if Liza was to get up and say "You know what, I wasn't fully recovered, I shouldn't have been there." Most people wouldn't applaud and say "You're right! Great insight!" They'd say "You're making excuses, you're a whinger, you're not tough enough."

Think of all the flak Plushy gets for mentioning Sasha's injury in the first place. Sasha appears to be embarrassed about it, as if it's a personal failure rather than an unfortunate event.

Perhaps the only way to change this is to refuse to participate. To turn off the YouTube or TV or whatever, to write to the ISU and the Russian Figure Skating Fed and say 'Enough, we don't want to watch this kind of stuff. Take care of your athletes."

I agree with that. We perpetuate the culture because "the ends justify the means".

That's why I won't hold Anna to different standards then any others. Because it's all probably somewhat morally wrong, at least.

That's the case for all of them. If you look at their interviews, they were happy, of course. And pleased with their accomplishments - and they should be. Their perseverance is to be commended. And what they did that night was nothing short of stunning and amazing. (This doesn't take away from that.) (And Kamila who also rose to the challenge and is only 14.)

However, they never should have been put in a scenario where it was "required of them". It should have been removed from their hands entirely. Their joy at their successes - and they did succeeded, this time. But at what cost? - was visibly and notably intermingled by their relief by having done so. (Like that justified their determination to compete. And that they were right in doing so. Anna herself said something similar.) (And Liza probably doesn't view it as a success at all.)

And both of them (and maybe Liza as well), rather than viewing pneumonia and a serious injury (that required injections) viewed them not as serious conditions that could endanger their careers and well-beings (most importantly), viewed them more as annoyances, minor obstacles that obviously were to be overcome. In fact, I could see Anna (and Liza) viewing pneumonia as something that needs to be skated through at Nationals because of the previous Liza/Evgenia decision. Despite the fact Anna's placement on that team is much more secure than Liza's ever was I don't think she viewed it as such. And I could see all of them, particularly Anna and Sasha viewing skating through injections as something that is simply done and to be admired. Remember they were both 13 year old novice skaters at Eteri's rink when Evgenia was skating through a broken foot on her way to the Olympics. (There's no way that didn't make an impression on them.) Both of them view their respective ailments as somehow personal shortcommings and hinderances in their ability to execute more quads (both treated two quad programs as an underachievement) rather than serious conditions that need to be improved. And they're16. So that's understandable. 16 years olds don't have perspective.

So, rather than blame 16 year olds (and even Liza for that matter and others - they were also raised in the culture and have seen (in some cases personally) what happens when you don't skate through ailments), I'll blame the culture that makes this acceptable and encouraged behaviour. And I'll blame the RusFed for perpetuating the culture and not even moving nationals back a couple weeks (especially with Euros cancelled), in order to allow their national team to recover because he values mental strength and competition as being good for athletes. And when an attitude like that comes from the top, I won't hold skaters solely responsible for going out and skating.

 

[chasingneverland]

You do know that the Covid screening questions for various situations include Have you had a fever in the past 24-48 hours, and require a temperature check, right? This is required for schools, doctor appointments, some restaurants, accessing a gym...and the list goes on....so to keep minimizing the fever issue is baffling.

I don’t know how anyone can defend and justify what was allowed to happen. I don’t see her actions heroic. I find it selfish and irresponsible. You disagree and that’s your choice. As I stated, I know too many people that have died from Covid and we take the precautions very seriously here. I guess Russia, and perhaps where you’re from, don’t?

Yes I do know that COVID screening tests do ask that.

However, it's unfair to view Anna's decision from a perspective that doesn't view a fever as a exclusionary condition. Especially as there is precedent that that isn't what Russia themselves require. For that matter some figure skating competitions (not only in Russia) don't require even COVID tests or masks. Is that wrong? Yes, but that's their decision so that's the one that their skaters are held to. Remember, Sofia was allowed to skate at test skates with a fever.

I also take fevers and COVID very seriously. BUT, I come from a place that does so as well. Anna doesn't so I won't hold her to standards that also don't.

 

[Draculus]

So, rather than blame 16 year olds (and even Liza for that matter and others - they were also raised in the culture and have seen (in some cases personally) what happens when you don't skate through ailments), I'll blame the culture that makes this acceptable and encouraged behaviour.

That's an interesting idea. I call it 'blame hero culture'. So "heroic" deeds (in different times different things are considered heroic) are bad.
300 against 100000 is management error, first non-stop flight across Atlantic is madness (on a wooden plane!), mount Everest climbing is life sacrificed for pride (how many dead bodies are still there?), etc.

Do not take any risk! Avoid pain and stress! Never ever force yourself, willpower is a sin.
And die relaxed at your home sitting on sofa, streaming.

 

[Fried]

That's an interesting idea. I call it 'blame hero culture'. So "heroic" deeds (in different times different things are considered heroic) are bad.
300 against 100000 is management error, first non-stop flight across Atlantic is madness (on a wooden plane!), mount Everest climbing is life sacrificed for pride (how many dead bodies are still there?), etc.

Do not take any risk! Avoid pain and stress! Never ever force yourself, willpower is a sin.
And die relaxed at your home sitting on sofa, streaming.

The greatest heroes are undoubtedly those who sit on their sofa at home with their laptops on their stomachs and fantasize about true heroism in internet forums.

 

[chasingneverland]

I am in no way saying that Anna is responsible for making sure these spectators are healthy sorry if it came off that way. I don't even find her at fault here because I totally understand that her intention wasn't to endanger anyone, she just wanted to skate. It's just stupid that somehow temperature checks are not mandatory and someone can just refuse one in the middle of a pandemic. And even if Alyona wasn't thinking about Covid, let's look into the hypotheticals, her not hugging Sasha leads to just speculation about bad blood and maybe a slightly hurt Sasha (and they hugged afterwards anyways so it can't be that hurtful). If any skater (not just Anna ofc) refused to get their temperature taken and possibly had a fever or was contagious, a lot of people could be hurt. I know RusFed is incompetent so I'm not even sure why I'm mad at this point but do they seriously want every top senior competitor to get Covid?

They already do have their entire senior Euros/Worlds team injured or ill (or at least exposed) with COVID or other similar illnesses. Look at this list (with accomplishments from last season):

Dmitri Aliev (back injury earlier in the season/COVID) - withdrew from the fifth stage, withdrew from RusNats - 2020 Euro champion, 2020 RusNat champion
Artur Danielian (ankle injury/surgery) - missed entire season, withdrew from Rostelecom, withdrew from Rus Nats - 2020 Euro silver medals, 2020 RusNAt silver medalist
Alexander Samarin (back) - withdrew from his second stage, withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 RusNats bronze medalist
Mikhail Kolyada (Liza had COVID) - withdrew from fifth stage

Aliona Kostornaia (injury earlier in the season/COVID) - withdrew from the fifth stage, and withdrew from RusNats - 2020 Euro champion, 2020 RusNats silver medalist, 2020 GPF champion
Anna Shcherbakova (pneumonia) - withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 Euro silver medalist, 2019-2020 RusNats champion, 2020 GPF silver medalist
Alexandra Trusova (severe injury) - didn't withdraw from anything but skated injured at Rostelecom (injured herself more) and RusNats where she was forced to limit her program as she can't physically do/even train more - 2020 Euro bronze medalist, 2020 RusNats bronze medalist, 2020 GPF bronze medalist
Liza Tuktamysheva (COVID) - withdrew from the fifth stage
Anastasiia Guliakova (Liza had COVID) - withdrew from fifth stage
Sofia Samodurova (fever/cold at test skates) - withdrew from free skate
Evgenia Medvedeva (back inury/COVID with severe lung damage) - withdrew from the first and second stages, withdrew from Rostelecom, and withdrew from RusNats
Liza Nugumanova (broken leg) - withdrew from fifth stage
Ksenia Sinitsyna (leg injury and some sickness) - withdrew from entire season and RusNats - 2020 Youth Olympic silver medalist

Boikova/Kozlovskii (Kozlovskii COVID, Boikova cold) - withdrew from third stage (Kozlovskii), (did compete fourth stage), withdrew from fifth stage (Boikova) - 2020 Euros champion, 2020 RusNats chapion
Tarasova/Morozov (Morozov COVID/Tarasova pneumonia) - withdrew from Skate America (Morozov), withdrew from the fifth stage (Tarasova) - 2019-2020 Euros silver medalist, 2020 RusNats silver medalist
Pavliuchenko/Khodykin (Khodykin accute respiratory injection) - withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 Euros bronze medalist, 2020 RusNats bronze medalist
Mishina/Galliamov - (Galliamov COVID) - withdrew from second stage - 2020 GPF bronze medalist
Pepeleva/Pleshkov (one of their coaches got COVID) - withdrew from Rostelecom
Panfilova/Rylov - (Rylov tonsillectomy) - withdrew from test skates and early stages - 2020 World Junior champions, 2020 RusNats Jr. champions, 2020 Winter Youth Olympics champions, 2020 JGPF champions
Akhanteva/Kolsesov - (Kolesov inury) - withdrew from RusNats - 2020 World Junior silver medalists, 2020 RusNats Jr. silver medalists, 2020 RusNats JGPF bronze medalists

Sinitsina/Katsalapov (Katsalapov injury earlier in the season/Sinitsina tendon inflammation at second stage/both COVID - hers severe aand damaged her lungs) - withdrew midway through FD at second stage, withdrew from fifth stage, and withdrew from RusNats - 2020 Euro champion, 2019-2020 RusNats champions
Stepanova/Bukin (Stepanova back injury/COVID) - missed entire fall season, withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 Euro bronze medalists, 2020 RusNats silver medalists
Zahorski/Guerrerio (Zahorski COVID) - 2020 RusNats bronze medalists
Shevchenko/Eremenko (COVID outbreak at training center) - withdrew from Rostelecom

This list is absolutely crazy and this is what we know. (Also I tried to limit it to prominent skaters.) This can't be normal.