2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[bookofcharms]

Trigger Warning, please nobody feel offended and go on attack, this is not a critique, but:
Anybody else ever feels a bit weird discussing and evaluating them super super young Russian girls? As in girls that haven't even entered juniors yet? Even if the discussion is not viscous or even negative at all, like it is for seniors, it's just a bit bizarre to me.
Of course one then asks the question: "Then what is the age from which you should feel ok to start judging and critiquing kids on an anonymous internet forum? What's the difference between a 14yo Kamila Valieva and an 11yo Alena Zhilina?"

But I'm just saying, this sport is becoming so young I see people, on the internet in general, again please nobody here feel attacked, starting to look at the 10 year olds to make predictions about the next OGM...

I think you have a point.

But the focus on 10 year olds is indicative of how incredibly young this sport is getting. Imagine focusing on 10 year old rugby players? It would be ridiculous.

I think ladies skating is also very focused on the turnover and what is ‘next’. Almost to the point that once skaters have made it to seniors everyone is more interested in how quickly they are going to be replaced.

 

[starlight97]

Any analysis as to why Liza does that turn out of her first 3A and then the 2T almost every single time? I see no other lady with that constant habit on any of their jumps.
Is she just so used to doing it by now that she gives up on the jump as soon as she's not 100% aligned upon landing and goes "F it, give me that -2 GOE, not gonna use up energy to hang on to this"?

 

[esteticlove]

Even after all those amazing quads across the season, I still get more impressed by a decent 3Lz-3Lo. Well done Anya!

 

[SXTN]

Anna is obviously working on her jump technique and it already shows.

- 3T not so badly "toe-axeled" any more
- No more "full blade take offs"
- Lz edge looks much improved

 

[Pale]

For a second i thought she'll try the second quad. Looked so good in the warm up.

 

[nussnacker]

Trigger Warning, please nobody feel offended and go on attack, this is not a critique, but:
Anybody else ever feels a bit weird discussing and evaluating them super super young Russian girls? As in girls that haven't even entered juniors yet? Even if the discussion is not viscous or even negative at all, like it is for seniors, it's just a bit bizarre to me.
Of course one then asks the question: "Then what is the age from which you should feel ok to start judging and critiquing kids on an anonymous internet forum? What's the difference between a 14yo Kamila Valieva and an 11yo Alena Zhilina?"

But I'm just saying, this sport is becoming so young I see people, on the internet in general, again please nobody here feel attacked, starting to look at the 10 year olds to make predictions about the next OGM...

I don’t think 10 year olds are discussed often here? Almost never, I have no idea what competitions Alena Zhilina took part in, being honest. I only watched novice nationals, because of the whole “scandal” by Titova mom

I took a closer look at pre-juniors/ advanced novices mainly this season, since in Russia they all compete together with juniors, due to a different age cut. Normally I don’t watch those competitions, but due to a strange season, Russian cup series were the main thing in the first half of the season, super entertaining and I got to learn a lot about those Russian advanced novices. Perhaps others took a closer look at those younger skaters for the same reason?

I do think there are young skaters that stand out even at their age, so they get noticed at times. I remember seeing Akatieva at Ice age kids, with her bird performance. Super memorable performance, she was very artistic and stood out to me instantly. Back then I thought that, barring injuries, this girl has a big future, and I am still of that opinion. Same with Nikolay Kolesnikov, as well as Kostyleva, she also stands out among others to me.

 

[Paulipau]

Any analysis as to why Liza does that turn out of her first 3A and then the 2T almost every single time? I see no other lady with that constant habit on any of their jumps.
Is she just so used to doing it by now that she gives up on the jump as soon as she's not 100% aligned upon landing and goes "F it, give me that -2 GOE, not gonna use up energy to hang on to this"?

Yes, also seems like Misha is doing the same thing now. Why is Mishin letting that happen?

 

[nussnacker]

Good job, Anna! She didn’t have to try too hard, and I think she’s already feeling better than at Worlds. She definitely looked better than at Worlds, and I hope she will only improve from here. Good for her to finish off the season with another confident win!
I also see a lot of work on her technique, really admirable that she’s working so hard to improve it. Lz-Lo looked really big, and combos have such nice flow out.

Liza was so close to clinching off second place in the free, but little mistakes really hurt her score. Good job regardless for skating the hardest content of her life at 24!

 

[flanker]

Hoooray for Anna!!!

Anna, who was somehow seen as the third behind Sasha and Aliona during the previous years has truly proven herself this season, being the only international lady senior competing in the TT, with the pressure on her after Sasha and Aliona changed coaches, she won all she could for Russia, for her team and for herself. Despite her tiny delicate figure she's made of steel.

And of course congrats to Liza. She couldn't finish her comeback during the 2018/2019 season properly because of the pneumonia, had a little bit of relegation as for the results the following season, but now she was able to ascend among the world top again.

 

[flanker]

Thanks on both, flanker! I admire how much you're on top of this.

You're welcome

 

[chasingneverland]

For a second i thought she'll try the second quad. Looked so good in the warm up.

Anna tends to make conservative choices when she can. She's said in the past that at her JGPF she had two 4Lzs and had a REP and a missed combo. That's worse than doing clean triples. (One fall on a quad replaces a double so that's a good risk as a fall will score higher but two of the same isn't.)

Mid-skate at World's she decided not to go for the second 4F after falling on the first one because she didn't want to run the risk of having a REP and a missed combo. I think she made the same decision here. She didn't need it and being clean is better. I think she learned that lesson in juniors.

 

[chasingneverland]

Also Anna and Liza were perfection!!!! (Yes, I know they both made little mistakes but they delivered!)

 

[JazzUp]

Congratulations to Team Russia!

p.s. Tuktik is so-so smol

 

[flanker]

On another note for a moment, team Davydov, Sofia Samodelkina and Maria Gordeeva, sonchro 4S

 

[silveruskate]

I pointed out Shcherbakova's international scored quads because we all know that both Shcherbakova and Valieva get favorable domestic scoring that may or may not transfer to international judging. I mean if you want to talk like their domestic GOEs are going to transfer internationally - that's troublesome for Valieva still, she and Shcherbakova get about the same GOEs on their quads domestically, at Russian Nationals Shcherbakova scored better getting 4.5+ GOE on each of her quads. Internationally twice Shcherbakova's 4Lz+3T last season scored over 19 points, for the most part her solo quad lutz last year scored 14 points internationally - more than Valieva has gotten for most of her quad combinations with domestic scoring based on a scan of the cup series and nationals results.



Well we have seen Trusova struggle to do that many ultra elements in a competition, at the Cup Final across both segments Valieva did 5 ultra elements - she only cleanly landed 2 of them.. Taking a look at the score sheets from the Cup series and Nationals this year - she's struggled to have more than 2 ultra elements

Cup Stage 2: No triple axel, 2 quads - fall on 1 quad, also a fall on a triple lutz
Cup Stage 5: Triple axel in the SP, landed but negative GOE; 2 quads and landed both
Cup Final: Triple axel landed in SP, landed the triple axel in the FS, attempted 3 quads - 2 falls and an invalid element on the 4S+SEQ+3T - mental error on her part, she had a messy landing on the 4S did a wonky turn and did a 3T, after the messy 4S landing she should have foregone the 3T.
Nationals: fall on triple axel in SP, 2 quad attempts and landed both.

Looking at the domestically scored Cup Final where Valieva threw literally everything she had, she scored 238 total with 5 ultra elements - 1 triple axel in the SP and in the FS 3 quads and 1 triple axel, her FS segment score was 149 points. Worlds 2021 which was internationally scored Shcherbakova only attempted 1 quad flip (fell on it) and scored 233 total and 152 in the FS.

I mentioned at the beginning that she should try and perfect her programs and not add anything more because this is enough to win. Not being clean is a completely different situation! But the point is she should work on this layout, and IMO she doesn't even need the extra 4S.

And I know, but Valieva's 4T is way better than before. We can't just look at the past. Valieva has to put it together, but she's done a clean SP with a 3A and a clean FS with a 3A and 2 4Ts. She's been hitting almost every 4T at the exhibitions.

I haven't really been mentioning Shcherbakova by the way.

 

[silveruskate]

Hoooray for Anna!!!

Anna, who was somehow seen as the third behind Sasha and Aliona during the previous years has truly proven herself this season, being the only international lady senior competing in the TT, with the pressure on her after Sasha and Aliona changed coaches, she won all she could for Russia, for her team and for herself. Despite her tiny delicate figure she's made of steel.

And of course congrats to Liza. She couldn't finish her comeback during the 2018/2019 season properly because of the pneumonia, had a little bit of relegation as for the results the following season, but now she was able to ascend among the world top again.

When was she seen as 3rd?

 

[halulupu]

Trigger Warning, please nobody feel offended and go on attack, this is not a critique, but:
Anybody else ever feels a bit weird discussing and evaluating them super super young Russian girls? As in girls that haven't even entered juniors yet? Even if the discussion is not viscous or even negative at all, like it is for seniors, it's just a bit bizarre to me.
Of course one then asks the question: "Then what is the age from which you should feel ok to start judging and critiquing kids on an anonymous internet forum? What's the difference between a 14yo Kamila Valieva and an 11yo Alena Zhilina?"

But I'm just saying, this sport is becoming so young I see people, on the internet in general, again please nobody here feel attacked, starting to look at the 10 year olds to make predictions about the next OGM...

I totally agree. We should cherish the titel name of this forum which says "ladies". Its super weird to discuss 10 years old. They deserve to develop on their own terms without wide public scrutiny. IMO mods should have an eye on this development

 

[flanker]

When was she seen as 3rd?

Don't want to go into fray or unnecesssarilly remind some commets about Anna not just here, but just listen Ted's words after Anna's free skate gaining the second national title (RusNats 2020).

 

[flanker]

I totally agree. We should cherish the titel name of this forum which says "ladies". Its super weird to discuss 10 years old. They deserve to develop on their own terms without wide public scrutiny. IMO mods should have an eye on this development

So far I don't see any rule violated and I must say that calling for "mods" just when I don't like what other people discuss (without any offence or inappropriate language) seems weird to me.

 

[silveruskate]

Don't want to go into fray or unnecesssarilly remind some commets about Anna not just here, but just listen Ted's words after Anna's free skate gaining the second national title (RusNats 2020).

But forgetting about one man's words or a forum, factually she has not been third. 2nd at World Jrs and won RusNats. Aliona always had lower scoring potential and no 3A/quads so why would Anna be seen as 3rd? Then first senior year Aliona skated with the 2nd group and then was on top with her new 3A, but Sasha faltered and switched to 3rd. Anna was 2nd at GPF, 1st at RusNats and 2nd at EC2020 with a big gap from Sasha. So why would she be seen as 3rd that season too? Doesn't make sense.