2020-21 US Women's Figure Skating

[macy]

I agree with this 100%. Bradie does seem to have nerves of steel. I was impressed with her showing at 4CC last season when she was the only US Lady in the field. Same with the GPF. The only time she really had problems was with her Free Program at Nationals which was unfortunate.

she really is a steady, gutsy competitor who can hold her own. IMO she is like a present day Rachael Flatt.

 

[mrrice]

I agree with this 100%. Bradie does seem to have nerves of steel. I was impressed with her showing at 4CC last season when she was the only US Lady in the field to win a Medal. Same with the GPF. The only time she really had problems was with her Free Program at Nationals which was unfortunate.

 

[natsulian]

With the Championship Series moving into an online format and Nationals being relocated (and possibly turned into online as well), I hope this gives all our ladies time to heal, re-plan, adjust, and just take the time to truly prepare for 2022 Olympics. Best of all to our skaters!

 

[hulksmash1337]

uh, no. no no no.

compare Caroline Zhang in 2007 to 2011, her body changed massively.
if you compare Bradie from her junior years to now, she has kept the same proportions. this is why she has kept her jumps. she may have grown taller, but her body stayed proportionate.

i'm assuming you have never been a figure skater and probably just don't know better, but forcing your body to rotate is a recipe for injury. being able to land jumps does not mean you have good technique in any way shape or form. you have literally no idea what you're talking about.

you can't compare running or swimming, both COMPLETELY different sports in every single way to figure skating. Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps did not have to learn how to spin 4 times in the air at 13 and then figure out how to still do it several years later. they did not have to keep learning more difficult skills as they grew up. that is an extremely uneducated and embarrassing comparison.

instead of making assumptions you deem correct, please next time ASK for insight from people who actually know what they are talking about from experience.

I was speaking from personal experience when I said it is good technique to use your power and "force rotations". I was doing doubles prepuberty, most of them "forced" because I had a really bad backspin (3 rotations max). So I always had to compensate with my jump height. Once puberty hit, I grew about 10 inches and I barely could do a backspin. My coach did try to improve my backspin by making me just do them over and over old school style before realizing that I wasn't gonna get any better at it. So he made me hit the gym until I was jumping high enough to dunk at 5'6. And then I got my 3L. I was jumping high enough that if Nathan Chen had my jump height, he would probably be doing a quintuple. But my air position looked like what a person learning to do singles had. Absolutely awful.

So can you really say that I had bad technique? Probably compared to Olympians, but I won against the other Novice skaters at sectionals. By "forcing" rotations, and utilizing my power instead of good form, I actually beat the guys who had absolutely beautiful rotations. There were prejuv girls that mocked my crap technique (and I agreed with them). But at the end of the day, who would not choose to have an ugly triple over not being able to do it? Did you think that there was really no merit in my coach's decision to ignore form completely and instead focused only on power (just for me and not the other skaters)? The other coaches thought he was crazy, but it worked, right?

So your assumption that there is only one way to jump is just wrong. There are better skaters and more refined skaters, yes. But compensating for beautiful air position with jump height is not bad technique, nor is being able to force rotations by using your lack of height to your advantage. The mental block of once being able to do something easily then not being able to do it is the biggest challenge. Physical changes such as puberty can be overcome, it just takes mental fortitude.

As for injuries, maybe bad form can cause injuries, but it is going to vary by skater. I didn't have to quit skating because I was getting injured, I quit because I hated going to skating 3 hours a day and wanted to go to LAN parties instead. Physically I could still handle the jumps, but mentally I was giving up. I developed knee pain that was not really that dangerous, but mentally it felt impossible to carry on.

Obviously Alysa Liu will never have this problem if her mental is strong. Her form is not going to cause injuries, it's not going to prevent her from jumping. Puberty or not, she has great technique because she has the jumps even if it looks bad to you.

 

[macy]

I was speaking from personal experience when I said it is good technique to use your power and "force rotations". I was doing doubles prepuberty, most of them "forced" because I had a really bad backspin (3 rotations max). So I always had to compensate with my jump height. Once puberty hit, I grew about 10 inches and I barely could do a backspin. My coach did try to improve my backspin by making me just do them over and over old school style before realizing that I wasn't gonna get any better at it. So he made me hit the gym until I was jumping high enough to dunk at 5'6. And then I got my 3L. I was jumping high enough that if Nathan Chen had my jump height, he would probably be doing a quintuple. But my air position looked like what a person learning to do singles had. Absolutely awful.

So can you really say that I had bad technique? Probably compared to Olympians, but I won against the other Novice skaters at sectionals. By "forcing" rotations, and utilizing my power instead of good form, I actually beat the guys who had absolutely beautiful rotations. There were prejuv girls that mocked my crap technique (and I agreed with them). But at the end of the day, who would not choose to have an ugly triple over not being able to do it? Did you think that there was really no merit in my coach's decision to ignore form completely and instead focused only on power (just for me and not the other skaters)? The other coaches thought he was crazy, but it worked, right?

So your assumption that there is only one way to jump is just wrong. There are better skaters and more refined skaters, yes. But compensating for beautiful air position with jump height is not bad technique, nor is being able to force rotations by using your lack of height to your advantage. The mental block of once being able to do something easily then not being able to do it is the biggest challenge. Physical changes such as puberty can be overcome, it just takes mental fortitude.

As for injuries, maybe bad form can cause injuries, but it is going to vary by skater. I didn't have to quit skating because I was getting injured, I quit because I hated going to skating 3 hours a day and wanted to go to LAN parties instead. Physically I could still handle the jumps, but mentally I was giving up. I developed knee pain that was not really that dangerous, but mentally it felt impossible to carry on.

Obviously Alysa Liu will never have this problem if her mental is strong. Her form is not going to cause injuries, it's not going to prevent her from jumping. Puberty or not, she has great technique because she has the jumps even if it looks bad to you.

using power in a jump to get the height necessary to complete the rotation is a very, very different concept from muscling your jumps. a completely different thing. obviously everyone needs power to jump, but speed is a huge part of power which Alysa doesn't have. she doesn't have any speed into her triple axel or quads, and she relies not on jumping higher but rotating fast to do them. that is completely different than what you just explained.

if you watch her takeoffs, you can see just how much wind up and snap she has to have to get the jumps around. slow down the videos and watch how hard she forces the jump into the air. this part is exactly what usually does not last through puberty and causes injury, it causes so much extra force on the body. she can do this now because she is tiny and small and still is a child. this can all change drastically for her as she gets older and is unfortunately a likely scenario.

see here, her 4lz from junior worlds. slow it down to .25. the jump goes up and down in almost the same spot on the ice.

A. Liu | Ladies Free Skating | ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships | #WorldJFigure

Visit https://www.isu.org/ for more information. SUBSCRIBE to our channel: https://www.youtube.com/SkatingISU?sub_confirmation=1 LIKE us on Facebook: https:/...

youtu.be

in comparison, here is Trusova's 4Lz. notice the difference in speed, effort, height and distance. she doesn't have to jam her pick into the ice.

Alexandra Trusova / Russian Cup 2nd Stage 2020 FS Fancam

10-13 Oct. 2020 Russian Cup 2nd Stage(Moscow) SP - 3 (75.77) FS - 1 (164.82) Total - 2 (240.59) More interesting videos of this day 👇 Fanam 2 https://youtu.b...

youtu.be

if you have speed, you are using your momentum to help you get into the air more efficiently and complete the rotation easier. speed = bigger jumps.

that's the last i'm going to say on the subject. i wish Alysa health and success and to stay injury free.

 

[bubblecherry]

using power in a jump to get the height necessary to complete the rotation is a very, very different concept from muscling your jumps. a completely different thing. obviously everyone needs power to jump, but speed is a huge part of power which Alysa doesn't have. she doesn't have any speed into her triple axel or quads, and she relies not on jumping higher but rotating fast to do them. that is completely different than what you just explained.

if you watch her takeoffs, you can see just how much wind up and snap she has to have to get the jumps around. slow down the videos and watch how hard she forces the jump into the air. this part is exactly what usually does not last through puberty and causes injury, it causes so much extra force on the body. she can do this now because she is tiny and small and still is a child. this can all change drastically for her as she gets older and is unfortunately a likely scenario.

see here, her 4lz from junior worlds. slow it down to .25. the jump goes up and down in almost the same spot on the ice.

A. Liu | Ladies Free Skating | ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships | #WorldJFigure

Visit https://www.isu.org/ for more information. SUBSCRIBE to our channel: https://www.youtube.com/SkatingISU?sub_confirmation=1 LIKE us on Facebook: https:/...

youtu.be

in comparison, here is Trusova's 4Lz. notice the difference in speed, effort, height and distance. she doesn't have to jam her pick into the ice.

Alexandra Trusova / Russian Cup 2nd Stage 2020 FS Fancam

10-13 Oct. 2020 Russian Cup 2nd Stage(Moscow) SP - 3 (75.77) FS - 1 (164.82) Total - 2 (240.59) More interesting videos of this day 👇 Fanam 2 https://youtu.b...

youtu.be

if you have speed, you are using your momentum to help you get into the air more efficiently and complete the rotation easier. speed = bigger jumps.

that's the last i'm going to say on the subject. i wish Alysa health and success and to stay injury free.

To be fair, Trusova and Scherbekova did not always have good and powerful quads. Some of their earliest attempts were very poor, too. They improved over time. Alysa used to have an extremely poor 3A, but over a year and a half her 3A improved tremendously and became a much more legitimate jump. So, she definitely has it within her to improve her jumps and skating, as we’ve already seen her do so, but obviously she has a lot to focus on regaining, improving, etc. before she even thinks about that 4lz again.

 

[macy]

To be fair, Trusova and Scherbekova did not always have good and powerful quads. Some of their earliest attempts were very poor, too. They improved over time. Alysa used to have an extremely poor 3A, but over a year and a half her 3A improved tremendously and became a much more legitimate jump. So, she definitely has it within her to improve her jumps and skating, as we’ve already seen her do so, but obviously she has a lot to focus on regaining, improving, etc. before she even thinks about that 4lz again.

absolutely, and i do think there have been noticeable improvements with her 3A. but i do think both Sasha and Anna, especially Sasha, have always had better quads. neither of them have ever been slow skaters and were taught a technique they have been able to keep and adapt as they grew (mainly Sasha).

the main factor i worry about with Alysa is the puberty monster. she already looks quite different even from junior worlds only 8 months ago. if her body changes a lot, she's likely going to have a heck of a time keeping the fast rotation she relies on. if she can't, she's going to have to completely rework her technique. Luckily for Sasha and Anna, they have grown taller but they have stayed proportionate. their bodies didn't drastically change.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I'm somewhat optimistic Alysa can retain the general triples, since she is working on it early, but considering her technique and the difficulty of those jumps I don't have as much faith in her keeping her 3A or quad. She was already getting calls on them at the Jr. GPF and Worlds and her quads at the past two nationals were suspect too. So they were never truly rock solid even in her tiny body.

 

[halulupu]

Just saw Lius Vegas performance...I am just angry, angry with usfed, angry with all the hypers. Poor girl, this must be so hurful. Its a desastor. why hype an innocent girl like this when its obvious that her techniques wouldn't last. They denied national titels for bell. Its a shame. They hoped Liu would last til the Olympics like Tara. Well its not going to happen. She has to relearn everything (jumps). sad and angry how they handle her. Such a talent wasted

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

They denied national titels for bell. Its a shame.

No, it's not. A national title is not a lifetime achievement award; you just have to be the best over two programs. Mariah and Bradie both do technical content we've seen from the women over the last 20 years, whereas Alysa is unique in having landed both a 3A and a quad in competition. Whether she keeps the jumps or not, Alysa did earn those titles at Nationals with her TES.

 

[Mishaminion]

Just saw Lius Vegas performance...I am just angry, angry with usfed, angry with all the hypers. Poor girl, this must be so hurful. Its a desastor. why hype an innocent girl like this when its obvious that her techniques wouldn't last. They denied national titels for bell. Its a shame. They hoped Liu would last til the Olympics like Tara. Well its not going to happen. She has to relearn everything (jumps). sad and angry how they handle her. Such a talent wasted

Alysa won her National titles fair and square. What an insult to the poor girl to suggest she did not. No matter what is going on with her now, she earned those golds.

It is also probable that she is injured, yet you are rushing to write off her entire career.

 

[halulupu]

Its all in vein now anyway. Not writing her career of, just her Olympic hopes and the way she got handled.
Lets face it will take her some years to restor her jumps, to feel comfortable in her new body. But there is always a next olympic cycle. She certainly has the talent

 

[katymay]

To be fair, Trusova and Scherbekova did not always have good and powerful quads. Some of their earliest attempts were very poor, too. They improved over time. Alysa used to have an extremely poor 3A, but over a year and a half her 3A improved tremendously and became a much more legitimate jump. So, she definitely has it within her to improve her jumps and skating, as we’ve already seen her do so, but obviously she has a lot to focus on regaining, improving, etc. before she even thinks about that 4lz again.

Her skating skills are fine-except for power and speed. She has lovely transitions, edges and so on. Every year I look at the US juniors and novice ladies, and every year I see way too many skaters who are pokey and skate 'small'. Especially when you compare the US. ladies with the Japanese and Russian girls in the 11-12 age group. The latter might fall on half their jumps, but the speed going into those jumps is outstanding, and when landed they are beautiful powerful jumps. To some extent you are either born with powerful legs or you are not, but U.S. skaters at the lower levels need to work on ice coverage. Eventually we are going to run out of slow Emo ballads for these skaters to meander slowly about the ice.

 

[SnowWhite]

Her skating skills are fine-except for power and speed. She has lovely transitions, edges and so on. Every year I look at the US juniors and novice ladies, and every year I see way too many skaters who are pokey and skate 'small'. Especially when you compare the US. ladies with the Japanese and Russian girls in the 11-12 age group. The latter might fall on half their jumps, but the speed going into those jumps is outstanding, and when landed they are beautiful powerful jumps. To some extent you are either born with powerful legs or you are not, but U.S. skaters at the lower levels need to work on ice coverage. Eventually we are going to run out of slow Emo ballads for these skaters to meander slowly about the ice.

We will never run out of slow emo ballads

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Her skating skills are fine-except for power and speed. She has lovely transitions, edges and so on.

Alysa has a lot of great qualities. However, her power and speed are not only not a strength, but they are significant weaknesses, along with her ice coverage. Most skaters get a PCS bump when they execute difficult jumps successfully, so I have always thought her scores were fair. However, if she ends up just doing triples through the lutz then there are a lot of women I'd have her behind if all skated clean, including Audrey, Karen, and Amber.

 

[Amei]

I agree with this 100%. Bradie does seem to have nerves of steel. I was impressed with her showing at 4CC last season when she was the only US Lady in the field to Medal. Same with the GPF. The only time she really had problems was with her Free Program at Nationals which was unfortunate.

Don't know if I'd use the GPF as a shining example of nerves of steel - she was anticipated to finish last in the field of 6 she was clean (less some under-rotations) and lucked out that Zagitova bombed her FS.

 

[bubblecherry]

Don't know if I'd use the GPF as a shining example of nerves of steel - she was anticipated to finish last in the field of 6 she was clean (less some under-rotations) and lucked out that Zagitova bombed her FS.

I mean, you can call it luck but Bradie outperformed her that day. Even Mariah beat Zagitova in the FS at a GP (and honestly, should’ve beaten her overall) last season. Zagitova had inconsistent seasons after the Olympics, so I think Bradie beating her, because she’s relatively consistent isn’t luck. Consistent skater beats inconsistent skater, it’s a good feat for Bradie. It’s one of her strengths and it paid off. Not exactly luck.

 

[mrrice]

Don't know if I'd use the GPF as a shining example of nerves of steel - she was anticipated to finish last in the field of 6 she was clean (less some under-rotations) and lucked out that Zagitova bombed her FS.

At least she MADE the final. That's more than the rest of the US Senior Ladies can say.

 

[kirauza343]

At least she MADE the final. That's more than the rest of the US Senior Ladies can say.

Made the final AND kept her composure against the reigning Olympic Gold Medalist and four women all attempting at least 3 Triple Axels and/or Quads (more in Rika and Sasha’s cases!).

 

[hulksmash1337]

Don't know if I'd use the GPF as a shining example of nerves of steel - she was anticipated to finish last in the field of 6 she was clean (less some under-rotations) and lucked out that Zagitova bombed her FS.

You can fault Bradie for a lot of things but mental tenacity is not one of them. If there is such a thing as the mindset of a legend, Bradie is probably the first skater I would point to.