2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

It would be one thing if Liza was only a little higher in PCS than her and not a whole point and a half, and Alysas less than what it is. And then there's Karen who botched her combo and if we're talking about reputation doesn't have even close to the accomplishments Aliona has, but was still scored higher.

I don't agree with Liza's PCS. But Karen deserves high PCS. Besides remember Liza T and Karen placed 2nd and 4th at Worlds. A World's Aliona didn't make. I'm not sure Karen's reputation isn't close to Aliona. Aliona was a star as a junior and a star her first season but she's never been to Worlds. Despite everything she does only have one year of senior experience. Karen is a PCS skater too - she's beautifully expressive and her spins are stunning.

 

[Zora]

I thought Liza was fantastic. And unlike Aliona, she seemed very confident and not worried about anything. Performance, Composition and Interpretation were better from her, I think.

Aliona seems to worry all the time now and only once all the jumps are done, she suddenly remembers to sell the program. And I thought she looked lost in her step sequence again.
But I think this new short programs could suit her very well once her confidence is back. The softness at the beginning and then the mood change to something more uplifting, that is her thing. But of all her short programs the last two seasons, I liked the Billie Eilish one best, that was totally her.

 

[Lzbee]

I hate to explain it to you again guys but we all know that PCS is tied to reputation, Liza put a clean program with a 3A out there and she is currently world's nr 2. Her spins were better than usual, and she even got level 4 stqc.

Aliona got the q on the axel and level 2 on stqc. Until she puts a perfect program out there she will not get a perfect PCS.

Do I think that Liza deserved higher PCS than Aliona? No. And surely not on SS and TR.

Am I gonna be surprised for 26368 time and pretend that I don't understand how scoring actually works? No.

It is how it is, deal with it already.

I get this but I don't think we should sit down and just not talk about it. The scoring in the GP season so far has generally been more fair than it has on the past so all the fan complaining seems to have done something even if it's only to bring attention to the issue.

Tbh I thought the GOE scoring was pretty good here. I'd expected them to give Kamila +4 and +5 across the board as they've done in the past but they rightfully scored her combo at +1/+2.

It's really just the PCS that doesn't make sense. (And Liza's uncalled 3T but she got low GOE for that so effectively it got called q)

Edit: nonsensical typos lol

 

[fabienne1996]

I just can‘t with the overscoring of Liza. I don‘t know if it‘s the World Silver medal bonus or if RusFed wants her on the Team this badly to prove they have a women skater over 20 who’s still competitive but it‘s outrageous. She was better than Aliona today, no question, but NOT by 6 points. Tuktamysheva has never been and at this point likely never will be a PCS skater. Call me crazy but in my mind even Sasha deserves more PCS in the SP. Liza‘s skating skills aren‘t the best, she has close to no transitions and I don‘t see any meaningful interpretation of the music with her body or face either. She is a performer alright and I don‘t mind giving her the highest scores of everyone there but second highest PCS overall is just…not it. Also that 3T in the combo was clearly UR.

So. Now that the rant is over.. something about the other Russian women.

Aliona: Very happy about this performance. The 3A looked much closer than last time and I prefer this program to the Beth Hart one, too. Also: FINALLY a great costume, please don’t change it!

Stamina still in the works (visibly slower in the step sequence and spins than she used to be) but it was a step up from Finlandia for sure. Personally I‘m rather discouraged by the scores, however. PCS used to be her strength and now judges rate her below Tuktamysheva of all people, which is…not good. And the GOE for her elements was also rather modest. She’s not back to her former self yet but she hasn’t regressed that much. For me it‘s a sign that judges and the fed still haven‘t "forgiven" her for that disastrous last year and she‘ll have to build up her reputation from scratch again. Considering the field she‘s up against and the PCS even former juniors are getting right of the bat…well. I hope she still decides to fight, though, and wins the Bronze tomorrow. I wish she was (deservedly!) closer to Liza so she could have a chance at the silver but… not to be, it looks like. I am trying very hard not to be angry about this and just pray she beats Alysa.

Kamila: I never have much to say about her and it‘s the same here. Next time she‘s clean the WR will be hers. I‘m not sure I agree with that but it was clear from the beginning that this was going to happen, so I‘ve resigned myself to that fact. Well done on a clean skate.

Anyone knows if she is already vaccinated? Because that could actually be a reason as I said for rusfed to want her on the team, if they don't find another solution before the Olympics to get the underage girls vaccinated . She and alyona would actually be the only one who are over 18 and can get the vaccine otherwise as it stands at this time for the other girls it will mean 21 days of quarantine meaning 21 days of no training right before the Olympic start. So it could be that rusfed wants at least one of the 2 alyona or Liza on the team to not destroy all medal chances if it comes to such a situation

 

[Tolstoj]

It's nice to see how the judges respect Liza's venerable age. No 3Aq or 3Lz+3T<

The 3A was not a q but the toe i think it was watching it live.

However the lack of massive prerotation and better toe pick still makes me prefer her jumping technique over anything Valieva does.

Aliona is improving but the landings on the 3a and the toe in the combo were tight. Also New York New York is a good pick for her but with 2 different cuts is a bit weird.

 

[nussnacker]

A clear 9+ performance in every angle and facet from Kamila. The others were mostly scored rather generously, some more than others. One thing I gotta say though even on a bad day Kostornaya is clear of the skaters that scored near her.

Agree.

 

[katymay]

She has too many girls to compete with. Now you add Maya to the mix and the third spot is wide open. But if she keeps skating well and getting unrealistic PCS scores she has a chance.

It's too early to know what's going to happen and Liza usually does not do well at Nationals.

I think there will be two fifteen-year-olds and one seventeen-year-old for the Russian ladies or two 17 year olds and one 15 year old on the Olympic team.

I think Liza will be on the Olympic team, period. Nor do I think this year that she will let it slip away. That leaves one slot for Anna, Aliona, Sasha, Maiia. Think how weird, and sad, it will be if none of the original 3A-Anna Aliona Sasha makes the Olympic team. (Maiia may well take that 3d spot-Sasha and Anna are injured/coming back from injuries, Aliona also not up to full speed)

 

[starlight97]

Very confusing scoring overall, but when is that ever not the case.

Kamila: what can you even say at this point. Outstanding, the end.
While the other Eteri girls are all outstanding in one category, be it tech/pcs/flexibility/musicality etc, Kamila is outstanding in close to every aspect. Her score is completely deserved.

Alena: she looks on track but still very insecure and it shows. Her PCS will go back up by the GPF/Euros if she has delivered a row of clean and confident programs by then. If not it will be very hard for her. This SP imo is less bad than the previous one but it's still so far from what "packaging her well" would mean.

Elizaveta: I like her as a personality, I couldn't care less for her skating unfortunately. No need to repeat all of her weaknesses, that's been discussed to death over the past years. Let's mention her strength instead, which is her resilience and confidence. Good for her for fighting for a spot. Who knows what might happen, everyone seems to be getting injured these days, if enough other girls falter, she might even have a shot.

 

[Scott512]

I think Liza will be on the Olympic team, period. Nor do I think this year that she will let it slip away. That leaves one slot for Anna, Aliona, Sasha, Maiia. Think how weird, and sad, it will be if none of the original 3A-Anna Aliona Sasha makes the Olympic team. (Maiia may well take that 3d spot-Sasha and Anna are injured/coming back from injuries, Aliona also not up to full speed)

For Liza to make the Olympic team she would have to beat out all those girls at Nationals and I can't see that happening.

Katy I don't want to burst your bubble but it is most likely that the Russian Federation will send 2 17 year olds and one 15 year old or two 15 year olds and one 17 years old. One 18 year old is also a contender for the Olympics and she looked like a new skater last night. I think aliona has become more of a factor for the Olympic team after changing her SP and skating much better last night.

Tara won the Olympics at 15 Oksana at Sweet 16 Alina at 15 Adelina peaked at 17. Sarah Hughes was also 17 I believe when she won Olympic gold. Those are the peak years for ladies figure skaters for the Olympics and I think that's part of the strategy for the Russian Federation choosing who goes.
This does not mean Liza cannot beat any of those girls out for the third spot but the pressure will be on her at Nationals in December. Seeing her skating so well in her mid-20s is remarkable people love to see that how she just kept plugging away year after year after year. Of course if she adds a quad by Nationals said she can land that changes things too.

We know who has the first spot locked up. Anna isva pretty much has the second spot locked up 3 national titles in a row and that's more impressive than being a reigning world champion which she is. Liza is battling for the third spot with three others.

If fgure skating was fair countries that dominate disciplines would have more than three maximum Russia obviously deserves like 6 going to the Olympics and Liza would certainly be one of them.

 

[lutzlover]

Anyone knows if she is already vaccinated? Because that could actually be a reason as I said for rusfed to want her on the team, if they don't find another solution before the Olympics to get the underage girls vaccinated . She and alyona would actually be the only one who are over 18 and can get the vaccine otherwise as it stands at this time for the other girls it will mean 21 days of quarantine meaning 21 days of no training right before the Olympic start. So it could be that rusfed wants at least one of the 2 alyona or Liza on the team to not destroy all medal chances if it comes to such a situation

I’m going to ask a really stupid question. Why can’t the Russian skaters get vaccinated in the countries that offer Pfizer or Moderna vaccines - at their Grand Prix competitions? A 21-day quarantine sounds terrible

 

[jenaj]

For Liza to make the Olympic team she would have to beat out all those girls at Nationals and I can't see that happening.

Katy I don't want to burst your bubble but it is most likely that the Russian Federation will send 2 17 year olds and one 15 year old or two 15 year olds and one 17 years old. One 18 year old is also a contender for the Olympics and she looked like a new skater last night. I think aliona has become more of a factor for the Olympic team after changing her SP and skating much better last night.

Tara won the Olympics at 15 Oksana at Sweet 16 Alina at 15 Adelina peaked at 17. Sarah Hughes was also 17 I believe when she won Olympic gold. Those are the peak years for ladies figure skaters for the Olympics and I think that's part of the strategy for the Russian Federation choosing who goes.
This does not mean Liza cannot beat any of those girls out for the third spot but the pressure will be on her at Nationals in December. Seeing her skating so well in her mid-20s is remarkable people love to see that how she just kept plugging away year after year after year. Of course if she adds a quad by Nationals said she can land that changes things too.

We know who has the first spot locked up. Anna isva pretty much has the second spot locked up 3 national titles in a row and that's more impressive than being a reigning world champion which she is. Liza is battling for the third spot with three others.

If fgure skating was fair countries that dominate disciplines would have more than three maximum Russia obviously deserves like 6 going to the Olympics and Liza would certainly be one of them.

Sarah Hughes was 16. But she won because others faltered, not because her youth made her the best. I don't really see the reason for age to be the deciding factor for the third spot on the Russian team. They have one skater who right now looks like a lock for Olympic gold and another (Sasha, IMO, not Anna) who could step into her place if she made mistakes. The third spot is a bonus. Liza will have to earn it, of course, but I think there is little downside to sending her in the third spot.

 

[readernick]

I think Liza will be on the Olympic team, period. Nor do I think this year that she will let it slip away. That leaves one slot for Anna, Aliona, Sasha, Maiia. Think how weird, and sad, it will be if none of the original 3A-Anna Aliona Sasha makes the Olympic team. (Maiia may well take that 3d spot-Sasha and Anna are injured/coming back from injuries, Aliona also not up to full speed)

I don't like predicting the future. I have no idea who will be on the Olympic team. However, it terms of who is getting pushed in PCS/GOE clearly Tuk, Sasha and Kamila are the ones who seem to be getting favorable treatment. Neither Tuk or Sasha are necessarily traditionally "artistic" skaters ( They both conversely have great jump technique) but their PCS this season suggests otherwise which was not always the case in the past. Valieva is certainly more artistic but is definitely not as far ahead of other skaters as the judging implies. So, if the Russian federation does have any say in who is getting pushed my feeling is these are the skaters they believe will be on the team.

 

[Scott512]

Sarah Hughes was 16. But she won because others faltered, not because her youth made her the best. I don't really see the reason for age to be the deciding factor for the third spot on the Russian team. They have one skater who right now looks like a lock for Olympic gold and another (Sasha, IMO, not Anna) who could step into her place if she made mistakes. The third spot is a bonus. Liza will have to earn it, of course, but I think there is little downside to sending her in the third spot.

Liza will have to earn it. I'm sure whatever 3 the Russian federation pick will be in good form. But there's also the possibility of injuries and coronavirus causing problems for athletes so whoever finishes 4th or 5th at nationals for the seniors is in an important position because there's a lot of time between Russian nationals and the Winter Olympics. Its almost 2 months.

Liza is in good form now. The question I have is how good can Aliona be by nationals? Anna too for that matter. Yes sasha's health is also an issue so they eally are like 6 or 7 high level Russian skaters for only 3 spots. Russia may very well have the top seven ladies in the world with Rika injured and Alysa and Young You very good but inconsistent.

 

[macy]

Liza will have to earn it. I'm sure whatever 3 the Russian federation pick will be in good form. But there's also the possibility of injuries and coronavirus causing problems for athletes so whoever finishes 4th or 5th at nationals for the seniors is in an important position because there's a lot of time between Russian nationals and the Winter Olympics. Its almost 2 months.

Liza is in good form now. The question I have is how good can Aliona be by nationals? Anna too for that matter. Yes sasha's health is also an issue so they eally are like 6 or 7 high level Russian skaters for only 3 spots. Russia may very well have the top seven ladies in the world with Rika injured and Alysa and Young You very good but inconsistent.

Liza will have to earn it, but so far she's getting a lot of help. If they continue to be generous to her she's not going to have to fight as hard.

Has there been a Russian ladies Olympic team in recent years with a skater who did not make the GPF that year? I am pretty concerned about Aliona with this...they have so many options to pick from that if she doesn't make the GPF it will be the nail in the coffin for her. And it's obviously not like they're too concerned with her not making the team based on how she's being scored.

Edit: no there hasn't. She needs to make the final.

 

[kmw227]

I was really impressed with all 3 Russian ladies yesterday!

Kamila was gorgeous as usual. Good to see that she's put the 3A woes of Finlandia behind her, at least for the moment (that landing was a little scary though). Combo was a bit shaky too but otherwise she was beautiful and performed really well. I'm interested to see how she handles the pressure of being in 1st place and now skating last in the free, as that was something she didn't experience at Finlandia.

It looks like there's been a lot of discussion about Liza's components already, so I'll just say that I agree with those who think her PCS was too high, especially in comparison to her competitors. It was a very nice performance, but there were some issues as well (3T was visibly under and should've been called, etc.) I am glad to see her being more consistent this season though, hopefully she'll skate well today and stay on the podium!

And then we have Alena. I don't hate the new program but I don't think it's THAT much better than Am I The One, they're both kinda average for me. I don't like either version of New York, New York that she skated to and I wish they'd just used the Frank Sinatra version but oh well. But, she skated so well and she obviously had fun out there so I can't complain too much. Great 3A too! Hope she'll be able to stay on the podium tomorrow as well.

 

[Scott512]

Liza will have to earn it, but so far she's getting a lot of help. If they continue to be generous to her she's not going to have to fight as hard.

Has there been a Russian ladies Olympic team in recent years with a skater who did not make the GPF that year? I am pretty concerned about Aliona with this...they have so many options to pick from that if she doesn't make the GPF it will be the nail in the coffin for her. And it's obviously not like they're too concerned with her not making the team based on how she's being scored.

What does the way aliona is being scored have anything to do with the Russian Federation? Why would they hold down the most beautiful skater in the world?

Aliona may not make the Grand Prix final but that ain't a blip on the screen to Russian Nationals. Of course aliona could finish second today in Vancouver and that would be a great start to her Grand Prix season.

Will International judges being generous to Liza as you put it matter when it comes to Russian Nationals which is where the Olympic team will be determined?

No matter where aalna finishes today I like what I say after the SP changes and I think by national she should be scoring in the a low 80s at least with her SP. The A train is on the move!

 

[meadow]

Kamila was fantastic as usual! The program is growing on me and I found I even like the dress, despite the strange colors. I think they're propping Liza up a lot, but here she was solid. I never particularly liked her skating style or her programs, but good for her.
I'm not totally sold on Alena's new SP, but I like it a lot more than the previous one. She's always a bit tentative these days, but it is understandable after last season. So good to see her 3A back, I hope she regains her legendary consistency with it.
Fingers crossed for the three of them in the FS!

 

[alexocfp]

For the record, Liza probably should have won the SP at Worlds last season. But none of her fans whined about it. We accepted the scores.

Liza‘s SP is real good. That has to be accepted.

And she has been beating Alena continuously every time they met the last year. It’s not a conspiracy at this point.

And I am glad Alena is slowly coming back, I have nothing against her. But she made bad career choices. Thats not Liza‘s or the judges fault.

And I have been nice and polite and bit my tongue a lot about her, but Liu has been way overhyped in here at the current moment. She does not have a better SP than Liza. She just doesn’t.

Liza is easily top 5 in the world right now. And her results reflect that.

Maybe the takeaway is to look at her work ethic and desire and emulate that instead of complaining about imagined scoring favors. She is what, 6 to 10 years older than everyone?

It seems some people need to learn to lose with dignity. As a Liza fan, I don’t knock Kamila or minimize her results, I say well done for beating my skater.

 

[macy]

For the record, Liza probably should have won the free skate at Worlds last season. But none of her fans whined about it. We accepted the scores.

Liza‘s free skate is real good. That has to be accepted.

And she has been beating Alena continuously every time they met the last year. It’s not a conspiracy at this point.

And I am glad Alena is slowly coming back, I have nothing against her. But she made bad career choices. Thats not Liza‘s or the judges fault.

And I have been nice and polite and bit my tongue a lot about her, but Liu has been way overhyped in here at the current moment. She does not have a better SP than Liza. She just doesn’t.

Liza is easily top 5 in the world right now. And her results reflect that.

Maybe the takeaway is to look at her work ethic and desire and emulate that instead of complaining about imagined scoring favors. She is what, 6 to 10 years older than everyone?

It seems some people need to learn to lose with dignity. As a Liza fan, I don’t knock Kamila or minimize her results, I say well done for beating my skater.

No one here is knocking Liza at all. as discussed the problem wasn't just with her scoring, it was several other skaters too, regardless of Aliona. There are no "imagined" favors, there WERE favors and not just to Liza. Lizas age has nothing to do with anything, and she shouldn't be receiving any favors just because she's older. Work ethic does not equal high PCS unless that is reflected on the ice, and it wasn't. She's not putting out skating that is deserving of over 35 points.

I still would have put her ahead of Aliona but not by 6 entire points. To deny there were favors given is ridiculous. Just make it make sense.

 

[alexocfp]

No one here is knocking Liza at all. as discussed the problem wasn't just with her scoring, it was several other skaters too, regardless of Aliona. There are no "imagined" favors, there WERE favors and not just to Liza. Lizas age has nothing to do with anything, and she shouldn't be receiving any favors just because she's older. Work ethic does not equal high PCS unless that is reflected on the ice, and it wasn't. She's not putting out skating that is deserving of over 35 points.

I still would have put her ahead of Aliona but not by 6 entire points. To deny there were favors given is ridiculous. Just make it make sense.

Actually she is. The judges, who are the only official scorers, said so.

Until I’m presented compelling evidence that the judges were bribed, everything else is just crying over spilled milk.