2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Flutzel]

They're probably going to change it again to "womxn" in about 3 or 4 years. All joking aside (or is it even a joke), "women" feels particularly strange here, since we'll mostly talk about 12 to 17 year old girls.

But in the modern world, ladies is also a word for adult women (unless you're using it kind of sarcastically or in a cutesy way, as in "come here, young lady", or you're about 65+ years old). Though I guess if you're very old-fashioned, you would call any girl of noble birth a lady regardless of age. However, since I don't know of any current noble-born skaters, we should really rename the discipline to Commoner and Peasantry Maidens (since the word maiden has the added connotations of young and ummarried, it'd be a much more fitting word by the standards of it representing 12-17 year old girls)!

Does anyone know if the Russian Junior Test Skates will be televised this year?

 

[ladyjane]

Speaking of noble born skaters: wasn't there a a princess in the JGP once? Yes, Princess Alexandra of Hanover. Daughter of a Princess of Monaco and a Prince of the defunct kingdom of Hanover. Not current (she skated in seasons 2014-2015 and 2015-2016), but close enough! Totally OT I know, I got triggered by the remark by @Flutzel.

You can all return to the topic now of Russian women.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Wow! Can't believe I'm posting in this thread!

Speaking of noble born skaters: wasn't there a a princess in the JGP once? Yes, Princess Alexandra of Hanover. Daughter of a Princess of Monaco and a Prince of the defunct kingdom of Hanover. Not current (she skated in seasons 2014-2015 and 2015-2016), but close enough! Totally OT I know, I got triggered by the remark by @Flutzel.

You can all return to the topic now of Russian women.

I adopted her!

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/73912/

(Mmmm. I could have sworn that I had updated her Fan Fest to the new layout when I updated my Word file to it months ago. Right, I'll have to get that rectified soon, once I get back on top of things!)

Were it not for German people being stripped of their UK titles during WW1, Alex's Dad would be the current holder of the title "Earl Of Armagh" in Ireland. And County Armagh is the county to the South-East of my county!

So, I like to think of Alex as "Princess Alexandra Of Armagh"

---

Oh, and since I am talking about Irish things in a Russian thread, I would like to point out that Gaelic Football (probably the roughest version of football that there is) has a female division. And guess what it's governing body is called...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies'_Gaelic_Football_Association

Enough said.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Novalis]

But in the modern world, ladies is also a word for adult women (unless you're using it kind of sarcastically or in a cutesy way, as in "come here, young lady", or you're about 65+ years old). Though I guess if you're very old-fashioned, you would call any girl of noble birth a lady regardless of age. However, since I don't know of any current noble-born skaters, we should really rename the discipline to Commoner and Peasantry Maidens (since the word maiden has the added connotations of young and ummarried, it'd be a much more fitting word by the standards of it representing 12-17 year old girls)!

Does anyone know if the Russian Junior Test Skates will be televised this year?

I second this! Much better than "women". Practically anything is.

 

[LiamV426]

I don't want to offend or anything, but I've honestly seen so many more people offended by the change to "women" than anyone ever was by the word "ladies"...if it really doesn't matter, then why gripe about the change so much?

At least this way it matches every other Olympic sport. It makes more sense. Some people just love to complain about "political correctness" and people getting "offended". Okay, but somehow you're offended by the word "women"? Make it make sense.

Agreed. The people who complain so much about "PC/Woke culture" are often the biggest snowflakes around.

They're probably going to change it again to "womxn" in about 3 or 4 years. All joking aside (or is it even a joke), "women" feels particularly strange here, since we'll mostly talk about 12 to 17 year old girls.

Well, we've been referring to boys in the same age range as "Men" for as long as I can remember so I don't see the issue here?

There are a lot of things that can be done to change the sport that actually affects its athletes vs. this change which at the end of the day all this is going to be is a change of terminology on official documentation and a PR statement at the beginning of the broadcasts so the ISU can pound their chests that they are modernizing the sport meanwhile the change they are making has miniscule, if any, impact on the athletes and like I said earlier I would venture to guess that most of them (the athletes) could not care less about the change. Its the equivalent of wearing the pink ribbon for breast cancer awareness but not actually donating money/aid to breast cancer research - it makes someone feel good about themselves but does it actually help anyone - no.

I don't see anyone pounding their chest or making a big song and dance over this change (well, only on here). It's not like this was proposed by the ISU themselves, the IOC (International Olympic Committee) are the ones who put forward the proposal and it would've been a pretty bad look for the ISU to reject it. The IOC basically said "every other sport uses 'women' so we would like your sport to do the same" and the ISU accepted.

That's it.

I totally understand your frustration with the ISU in general, there's more they could be doing to make the sport more fair and *especially* more that could be done to protect athletes from abuse. I just don't think such a simple change prevents other kinds of progress from happening.

ETA: I think I'm gonna leave this conversation here tbh because it won't amount to anything and is taking up enough room in this thread. What's done is done. I'm sure no one will stop you if you still insist on calling the discipline "Ladies Skating".

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Wanted to wish Anastasia tarakanova good luck in her future endeavors. Your career in fs was not in vain.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Oh, I forgot. Wondering kostornaia will be forced into the No One Ever Called Me That free skate. Idk if she'll be allowed anymore to voice her opinion on programs she doesn't want to do.

 

[spicymacaron]

Oh, I forgot. Wondering kostornaia will be forced into the No One Ever Called Me That free skate. Idk if she'll be allowed anymore to voice her opinion on programs she doesn't want to do.

Wasn’t that one given to Anna for last year’s free program? I think she’ll have a different one.

 

[macy]

Wasn’t that one given to Anna for last year’s free program? I think she’ll have a different one.

no Anna skated to secrets & morning passages. i would hope they wouldn't give Aliona something meant for a year ago, unless it still fits and works for her.

 

[spicymacaron]

It was part of the original program before Daniil changed it. The second part of Anna’s free program was “No One Ever Called Me That” at test skates. Daniil switched it to Secrets later.

 

[macy]

It was part of the original program before Daniil changed it. The second part of Anna’s free program was “No One Ever Called Me That” at test skates. Daniil switched it to Secrets later.

ohhh i knew that, but why did it never click for me that that was Aliona's music?

 

[flanker]

Olga's upgraded saloon, part II:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't want to offend or anything, but I've honestly seen so many more people offended by the change to "women" than anyone ever was by the word "ladies"...if it really doesn't matter, then why gripe about the change so much?

I wonder how many different languages use this distinction between "ladies" and "women". Will the event be renamed in languages like Chinese, Japanese, or Arabic?

 

[readernick]

I wonder how many different languages use this distinction between "ladies" and "women". Will the event be renamed in languages like Chinese, Japanese, or Arabic?

I am certainly not an expert (my Chinese is terrible- it isn't easy learning a new language at 40) but from what I have seen they already use the terms 男子 and 女子 which translate to men and women. One isn't a more polite term than the other. ( As far as I am aware) I believe the same characters are used in Japanese. So, I don't think this is an issue that has to be addressed. However, I am sure other posters on this forum are more qualified to answer this question.

 

[surimi]

I am certainly not an expert (my Chinese is terrible- it isn't easy learning a new language at 40) but from what I have seen they already use the terms 男子 and 女子 which translate to men and women. One isn't a more polite term than the other. ( As far as I am aware) I believe the same characters are used in Japanese. So, I don't think this is an issue that has to be addressed. However, I am sure other posters on this forum are more qualified to answer this question.

I apologize in advance for hijacking the Russian Ladies/Women thread. I realize this would be better off in the renaming thread, but since this conversation is interesting to me, I also would like to post a question. I know that the two kanji @readernick posted above, are used in Japanese, with the readings of 'danshi' and 'joshi'. And hence my question: I have only ever seen these for 'men' and 'women' in sports disciplines, and I think it's also used at schools. But I looked up the words today, and jisho org says it means 'young men/youths' and 'women/girls'. Can a native speaker tell me if the 'young' aspect is very strong in these words? I had no idea they referred to age in any way! Thanks for any clarification.

 

[Rabboki]

I apologize in advance for hijacking the Russian Ladies/Women thread. I realize this would be better off in the renaming thread, but since this conversation is interesting to me, I also would like to post a question. I know that the two kanji @readernick posted above, are used in Japanese, with the readings of 'danshi' and 'joshi'. And hence my question: I have only ever seen these for 'men' and 'women' in sports disciplines, and I think it's also used at schools. But I looked up the words today, and jisho org says it means 'young men/youths' and 'women/girls'. Can a native speaker tell me if the 'young' aspect is very strong in these words? I had no idea they referred to age in any way! Thanks for any clarification.

女子and男子 can be associated with school age kids, but it’s more like ‘not super old’ men/ women. 子（shi）on its own would suggest child (子供). But joshi and danshi can be used to refer women and men in general. ie. joshi toilet = women’s toilet. To take out the age factor completely we can use 男性male/女性female where 性=gender or sex.

Chinese is similar except 男子/女子 feels more adult rather than young. Teenagers would be 少年（shaonian, masculine or gender neutral) and 少女（shaonv， feminine）。

They don’t give the feeling of ladies(女士）or gentlemen(男士）

 

[flanker]

Anna Shcherbakova will be among the special guests to an ISU skating awards ceremony:

 

[karina17]

Chinese is similar except 男子/女子 feels more adult rather than young. Teenagers would be 少年（shaonian, masculine or gender neutral) and 少女（shaonv， feminine）。

They don’t give the feeling of ladies(女士）or gentlemen(男士）

Just to add on, in an official context, 男子/女子 doesn't imply age and can be used for teenagers as well as adults. For example, my high school's name was (Name) 女子中学 in Chinese, and (Name) Girls' High School in English, with 女子 being 'Girls' and 中学 being 'High School'.

This is standard for all schools as far as I know - 女子 is the standard translation for not just "women", but also "girls". It's even used for elementary schools, so in an official context you can use 女子 to refer to a six-year-old girl.

It probably would feel slightly strange to do it outside of an official context, but that's probably just because a more common term exists (女孩 - girl, or 少女 for a tween/teen like you mentioned), not because it's wrong.

This post is getting too long, but I was trying to say that 男子/女子, especially in an official context such as a school or a sporting event, is very neutral and doesn't distinguish between ages, especially not between teenagers and adults. I think it's even more age-neutral than 'women'.

 

[Tokyo Drift]

This epic, unpredictable drama had me spellbound.
I caught myself spying reading you day-to-day since...
...somewhere between the page 1 and 1175 of the "2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating" thread .

Hi everyone & thank you for your vast and tasty knowledge !

 

[flanker]

This epic, unpredictable drama had me spellbound.
I caught myself spying reading you day-to-day since...
...somewhere between the page 1 and 1175 of the "2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating" thread .

Hi everyone & thank you for your vast and tasty knowledge !

Hi there. People involved in figure skating, from skaters and coaches to active fans seem to be rather succesful showrunners, who are able to keep audience interested