2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Amei]

I don't have an issue with people changing countries or anything. But for a lot of these people (Paganini or Tursynbaeva) even if they've never lived there, they have citizenship.
I knew that Krasnozhon competed without American citizenship, but he lived in the US. I thought there might be a residency requirement, but I guess that wouldn't work for pairs and such. I just learned something new, I guess.

To become a citizen yes, there is a residency requirement that you live in the US for x amount of years (I think its like 5?), for Italy there is a 6 month requirement to live in Italy and then you get a visa before becoming a citizen and there is a waiting period between the visa and citizen; though this website mentions 'your specific circumstances' so I wonder if anyone knows if Italy makes special concessions for athletes that will allow Talalaikina to be able to compete at the Olympics this year (even if she can't - her career internationally was going nowhere in Russia, she just doesn't have the arsenal). Based on what I read on Armenia (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just Google searching) - Gubanova with approval from the Armenian government can be given citizenship immediately as "Armenian citizenship can be awarded without any requirement to persons who have provided exceptional service to the Republic of Armenia." - I would guess that they can do her citizenship based on her being an Olympic hopeful for Armenia (possibly), there's also a shortcut if your parent is Armenian - not sure if this applies for Gubanova.

https://www.italiandualcitizenship.net/how-to-become-an-italian-citizen/
https://www.mfa.am/en/citizenship/

 

[Scott512]

Finally a transfer for Nastya! But is Nastya really going to be able to live in St Petersburg being near her family train with the Rukavicin team she has been with for 2 years and represent another country in this case Armenia? That would be the best of both worlds for her if so. She has not represented Russia internationally in almost 3 years. I only wish she had done this a year ago because she wasted a year of her career last year.

Now that I think about it don't Moris and Lilbet from TT live and train in Russia but represent other countries?

Good luck to Maria as well. It's interesting that she's going to live in Italy and be coached by Nastyas former coach Turenko.

I can't believe how much depth the Russian ladies have. And all 4 of her senior Russian national's Nastya finished in the top 10 and I'm trying to figure out if that was good or slightly disappointing. I guess good because
There were many fabulous skaters in all 4 of those national for her to compete against. Now she should have it easier with Armenia but that means more pressure will be on earths well. I hope Anastasia has something left. But I think this sport has beaten her up mentally more than physically.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

though this website mentions 'your specific circumstances' so I wonder if anyone knows if Italy makes special concessions for athletes that will allow Talalaikina to be able to compete at the Olympics this year

Charlène Guignard received Italian citizenship in 2013 under an Italian law that allows citizenship "for exceptional contribution to the country", partly so she could attend the 2014 Olympics. It's possible that Talalaikina may qualify under the same rule. Charlène had been living in and competing for Italy since late 2009 and has an Italian skating partner, which may have had an impact on the process though.

More info here: http://www.artonice.it/?q=en/node/13807

 

[Jontor]

I'm delighted over the Maria and Nastya news.

On the other hand, I think national swaps are problematic. At least it would be for me if I put myself in the same situation. If you are a sports person, I expect that you feel that you are a representative for that country. But if that country is just a facade for you to be able to do your sport? Then it might get complicated.

And do these countries really care about these imported athletes? I wonder, for example, how Safonova's career is going to be now. Don't really know how the relations are between Russia and Belarus. But to the rest of the world, Belarus' relations are icy cold. Would Belarus care about Safonova when it comes down to the political nitty gritty? I don't think so. And would Italy and Armenia really care about Maria and Nastya? That remains to be seen.

That said, I wish them all the best. I hope these transitions work out smoothly for Talalaikina and Gubanova (and Gracheva!). All I know is that I want to see them continuing their careers, and we all know that is almost impossible in Russia.

 

[Azikin]

I'm delighted over the Maria and Nastya news.

On the other hand, I think national swaps are problematic.

Absolutely great news! Of course it's not easy but if they love skating, which I assume they do, it's a better solution than becoming a couch when they're still not even 20 years old like so many others lately...

 

[Paulipau]

I'm right there with ya Pauli...

Let's play!

If she had gotten 0.5 higher GOE it wouldn't have mattered, she would have been 9th anyway.
But if we give her 1.0 higher GOE she would possibly have gotten into 6th place and beaten Nugumanova - and been on the National reserve team instead of her.

Still, being on the National reserve team doesn't seem to be bringing too much advantage, she is better of transfering to Italy

 

[[email protected]]

I'm delighted over the Maria and Nastya news.

On the other hand, I think national swaps are problematic. At least it would be for me if I put myself in the same situation. If you are a sports person, I expect that you feel that you are a representative for that country. But if that country is just a facade for you to be able to do your sport? Then it might get complicated.

You are right, but with the current quota rule those 2 have no chances to compete for Russia. I am a long time proponent of lifting quotas in individual events with the exception of the Olympics where not only athletes but countries compete with one another. In ATP tour there are no quotas. However, as nothing seems to change I am all for their decision. It's fair for them and for us spectators and fans.

 

[hanca]

Still, being on the National reserve team doesn't seem to be bringing too much advantage, she is better of transfering to Italy

As Nugumanova said in an interview, being in the reserves gives the skater paid coaching, paid dresses and paid skates. If you have ever skated, you realise that it is significant amount of money. Boots and blades cost roughly £1000, coaching costs around £50 per hour and dresses are expensive too.

Whether Gubanova and Talalaikina are better off transferring to skate for another country - well it depends on how you look at it. For us (fans) it is better because we will see them competing in the big competitions. For them it means the opportunity to get to Europeans and worlds, which they did not have in Russia. But it will be very expensive for them, and especially for Talalaikina who will need to also cover staying in Italy (food, accommodation etc), in addition to training cost and costs of travelling to competitions. That’s not cheap!

 

[Paulipau]

As Nugumanova said in an interview, being in the reserves gives the skater paid coaching, paid dresses and paid skates. If you have ever skated, you realise that it is significant amount of money. Boots and blades cost roughly £1000, coaching costs around £50 per hour and dresses are expensive too.

Whether Gubanova and Talalaikina are better off transferring to skate for another country - well it depends on how you look at it. For us (fans) it is better because we will see them competing in the big competitions. For them it means the opportunity to get to Europeans and worlds, which they did not have in Russia. But it will be very expensive for them, and especially for Talalaikina who will need to also cover staying in Italy (food, accommodation etc), in addition to training cost and costs of travelling to competitions. That’s not cheap!

Ow yes for sure I realize that, it is a significant amount of money.
It depends as in some cases the new federation is helping with the costs, also once the first successes come it is easier to get sponsors being a National Champion of Italy and potentially an Olympian than being 9th at Russian Nationals (even though the sec one it probably more of an accomplishment).


EDIT: Gubanova will compete for Georgia, not for Armenia.

 

[JazzUp]

"Our federation did not give permission for the skaters (that are now being discussed on social networks) to perform for other countries", said - guess who? - Alexander Kogan.

...

Five minutes later...

...

“Gubanova decided to skate for the Georgian national team last year already, and we agreed to this transfer” Kogan said.

 

[klena]

And Gorshkov as usual, he did not disappoint us

The president of the Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFCR), Alexander Gorshkov, commented on the news about the transfer of Russian figure skaters Anastasia Gubanova and Maria Talalaikina to the national teams of Georgia and Italy.

"No, I haven't heard such news. Sorry, I'm very busy right now.

Has the Georgian Figure Skating Federation confirmed Gubanova's transfer? I'm sorry, I have a lot of things to do and I don't have time to read newspapers and news, discuss them now. I have not heard of such a thing, " Gorshkov said.

 

[ruga]

The golden rule here is: if Gorshkov hasn't heard something, consider it true and confirmed

 

[Amei]

"Our federation did not give permission for the skaters (that are now being discussed on social networks) to perform for other countries", said - guess who? - Alexander Kogan.

If they haven't competed internationally for years for Russia and aren't on the national team, can the Russian Fed really stop them?

 

[MalAssada]

Getting an Italian citzenship can be quite easy: you are entitled to one as long as you can prove you have an Italian ancestor (ideally male, as females only got their right to pass a citzenship in the 20th century). I'm currently doing it; my Italian ancestor was my great-great-grandfather. So that may be a reason for Maria to have picked Italy, too.

I seem to recall someone mentioning Gubanova having a talented younger sister. Does this sister still skate?

 

[Scott512]

You are right, but with the current quota rule those 2 have no chances to compete for Russia. I am a long time proponent of lifting quotas in individual events with the exception of the Olympics where not only athletes but countries compete with one another. In ATP tour there are no quotas. However, as nothing seems to change I am all for their decision. It's fair for them and for us spectators and fans.

I've been screaming about lifting the quotas for years but it's like spitting into the wind.

I don't know what's going on last night it was Armenia for Anastasia now it's Georgia she has Georgia on her mind as we say in America.

Kogan and Gorschov say they knew nothing of the transfers of Nastya and Maria. Whaaaaaat? Could this be the St. Petersburg figure skating federation sticking it the Russian figure skating federation and the Kog and the Gor? Drama!

Nastya should have made this move 1 year ago. Good luck to her and Maria.

 

[Scott512]

I don't have an issue with people changing countries or anything. But for a lot of these people (Paganini or Tursynbaeva) even if they've never lived there, they have citizenship.
I knew that Krasnozhon competed without American citizenship, but he lived in the US. I thought there might be a residency requirement, but I guess that wouldn't work for pairs and such. I just learned something new, I guess.

I agree with your assessment and I don't think people will be upset with Maria or nastya changing federations for figure skating purposes only. But that's because these 2 are not a threat medal at any International competition they may get representing Italy or Georgia. But if this were 2 of Russia's top 6 girls transferring the Russian federation would do everything to block it.

 

[Climb]

A couple of articles to give an idea about the possible transfer

(19 May 2020)
By default, the procedure for changing citizenship is regulated by the International Skating Union. An athlete has the right to represent another country, if his previous federation does not object, and more than 12 months have passed since the last performance under the previous flag. In the Russian Figure Skating Federation, these requirements were considered too lenient and approved their own transition criteria.
According to the new rules, athletes who compete or competed for the Russian national team have the right to an official transfer two years after receiving a request from a foreign federation. For participants in Russian championships (including Juniours), this period will be one year. In fact, the federation has complicated the process of changing citizenship for all skaters who have competed in the junior or adult championships of Russia at least once.

Ни себе ни людям. Как решение федерации может оставить российских фигуристок без Олимпиады

Теперь менять гражданство бессмысленно. Катайся за Россию или уходи из спорта!

www.championat.com

(5 May 2021)
A large number of ex-Russians compete at international tournaments. Now the athlete must wait for the permission of the federation and serve quarantine only if he represented his country at an international tournament. Rusfed wants to stop the "uncontrolled import of figure skaters" and make sure that the practice expands to all who competed in the national championships.
“These skaters are usually of a fairly high level and receive material and financial support from their national federations and clubs. Therefore, an uncontrolled flow of skaters of this level will create serious problems and disagreements between these skaters and their clubs, ”the Russian proposal says.
ISU notes that it does not want to interfere with the national championships, therefore, this issue has been postponed until 2022.

Фигурное катание ждут большие реформы: Канада хочет революцию в судействе, Россия — ужесточения переходов - 5 мая 2021 - Sport24

Что предлагают разные страны и как на это реагируют в ИСУ.

sport24.ru

I have no clue how exactly does it work right now. I think you really need an official comment from Rusfed to make things clear

 

[Scott512]

When was the last time Zhenya competed for Russia internationally? Perhaps a gp event in November of 2019? It's been almost 2 years right? Hmmmm.

 

[Briananing]

When was the last time Zhenya competed for Russia internationally? Perhaps a gp event in November of 2019? It's been almost 2 years right? Hmmmm.

Zhenya is a past champion, she would never release herself from the federation or she would lost all her endorsement deals, her main audience, her skating shows, and her future career path in russia, whether it was to become a coach, a blogger, etc. I mean she is moving back to eteri bcs she is preparing her future.

 

[Lzbee]

"Our federation did not give permission for the skaters (that are now being discussed on social networks) to perform for other countries", said - guess who? - Alexander Kogan.

...

Five minutes later...

...

“Gubanova decided to skate for the Georgian national team last year already, and we agreed to this transfer” Kogan said.

And Gorshkov as usual, he did not disappoint us

The president of the Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFCR), Alexander Gorshkov, commented on the news about the transfer of Russian figure skaters Anastasia Gubanova and Maria Talalaikina to the national teams of Georgia and Italy.

"No, I haven't heard such news. Sorry, I'm very busy right now.

Has the Georgian Figure Skating Federation confirmed Gubanova's transfer? I'm sorry, I have a lot of things to do and I don't have time to read newspapers and news, discuss them now. I have not heard of such a thing, " Gorshkov said.

how are these guys so embarrassing