2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Shayuki]

Daniil explaining the SP choices

Now that was... curious to listen to.
1. The strangest thing to me is hearing that he comes up with programs without even having a skater in mind yet and then goes "so who do we give this one to guys?"
That must be what unavoidably happens when you have to choreograph 30 programs a season.

2. Second conclusion I draw from this is that he is very much convinced of his choices and we sadly probably will not see Alena or Kamila change theirs.
I actually get his reasoning behind Kamila and it's not a bad program at all, just would have preferred Storm or Picasso, but oh well. But I really hope they'll rethink Alena's..

3. I quiet like his idea behind Anna's oriental SP. Maybe the costume and more polishing will help it come across better and actually "swipe us away". He is clearly incredibly fond of Anna and confident in her abilities.

1. Yeah, and you can tell. It's no wonder they all look the same. And it's no wonder that none of the programs seem to be tailor fit for each skater, which in my opinion would be strictly superior. I also don't agree that he's forced to do this due to logistics - if anything it should be easier to come up with stuff when every program's made specifically for the skater.

2. Yep, he thinks his Bolero is his "masterpiece". Unfortunate but it is what it is.

3. Luckily it's Anna so she could perhaps pull it off but unfortunately programs like this always come off as tacky and stereotypical.

 

[nussnacker]

1. The strangest thing to me is hearing that he comes up with programs without even having a skater in mind yet and then goes "so who do we give this one to guys?"
That must be what unavoidably happens when you have to choreograph 30 programs a season.

We’ve heard about this all the time. It’s not as straightforward as that.
They probably think of an idea or a program and if it doesn’t work for anyone, they don’t use it and just park the idea until better times, until it can be used for some other skater at another point of time. That’s how Alina’s Olympic program came to life. It doesn’t mean that they just use it regardless for a skater, whom they don’t think it really works for. So if Frida program idea came up and they didn’t think it would work for anyone, maybe we wouldn’t have seen it until years later. But it does work well for Sasha.

There’s a small part, which didn’t get translated. Daniil says he and Eteri are both tired and all of this is of course hard, but he also says all choreographers do just as many programs, but in different camps, across the world sometimes. So what he does is nothing out of ordinary. Besides, since it’s always 2 of them doing that, and they have a luxury of time (probably meaning to change and fix things), unlike many, it actually makes it easier.

I think there’s certainly a bit too much focus on him, rather than other choreographers. Understandably, they’ve got the best skaters in the world in a popular discipline, so people watch what he puts out more and that means more scrutiny. It’s a bit unfair that he gains a reputation of being very occasionally good, but predominantly bad, when his track record of good/bad programs isn’t different to others. I know quite a few very weird choreos, but people don’t really pay attention to these skaters, so it gets unnoticed.

 

[Dawn825]

Whether DG has the same good/bad ratio as some other choreographers is up for debate. But his bad programs are glaringly obvious when you see them back to back on nearly identical skaters. And more obvious on some of the most talented skaters in the world. Theres also the issue that Eteri's skaters are forced to work with him. Most other skaters can choose to work with choreographers that they get along with and think highlights their stengths and they can experiment with different people based on what they want for a particular season. There are certainly Eteri skaters who dont like working with Daniil, and skaters Daniil doesnt like working with, and that dynamic is going to produce uninspired programs. Whether Eteri is willing to sacrifice certain skaters' artistic and emotional potential for the convenience of an in-house choreographer, or whether she thinks Dani is the best choreographer on the planet is unclear. But its so unusual for a coach to annoint a choreographer in that way that it puts a huge spotlight on him - so his bad programs are again obvious.
The fact that he goes to so many more competitions than most choreoghraphers makes the spotlight bigger, so the fact that he stands in that spotlight at the boards basically booing his own skaters is going to make people dislike him.

 

[Dawn825]

Rant about DG over, thank you @florin for posting the explanation about Anna's FS. It's good to understand the story but I really don't think its necessary. Her expression and energy changes with each piece of music and I think that's enough to make it a compelling performance.

 

[nussnacker]

Whether DG has the same good/bad ratio as some other choreographers is up for debate. But his bad programs are glaringly obvious when you see them back to back on nearly identical skaters. And more obvious on some of the most talented skaters in the world. Theres also the issue that Eteri's skaters are forced to work with him. Most other skaters can choose to work with choreographers that they get along with and think highlights their stengths and they can experiment with different people based on what they want for a particular season. There are certainly Eteri skaters who dont like working with Daniil, and skaters Daniil doesnt like working with, and that dynamic is going to produce uninspired programs. Whether Eteri is willing to sacrifice certain skaters' artistic and emotional potential for the convenience of an in-house choreographer, or whether she thinks Dani is the best choreographer on the planet is unclear. But its so unusual for a coach to annoint a choreographer in that way that it puts a huge spotlight on him - so his bad programs are again obvious.
The fact that he goes to so many more competitions than most choreoghraphers makes the spotlight bigger, so the fact that he stands in that spotlight at the boards basically booing his own skaters is going to make people dislike him.

It’s not really unusual in Russian figure skating. Usually the coach calls all the shots and makes all the decisions.
Listen to how Misha answers on any questions about his programs - he will do whatever Mishin tells him to and that he fully trusts his coach‘s judgement.
Mishin makes a decision to swap the music in the short and leave the choreo and a grown woman Liza just does what he says.
Moskvina also seems to pretty much always make these decisions herself, she chooses who skates to what and who makes the program. Having an in-house choreographer is also very common. The whole approach to coaching-student roles and responsibilities is different in Russia compared to some other countries, which has been discussed many times.
Some will find it not good, some will love it. I remember Elizabet said that when they moved to Canada, it was burdensome to pick and organize choreo and costumes, because she was used to that work being done by the coaches. It was too much responsibility and too hard given their lack of experience in it. So clearly there will be happy and unhappy people whatever approach you choose. There’s no such thing as a perfect camp.

and when did he boo his skaters?

 

[Dawn825]

Thank you also @starlight97 for DG interview. Gonna have to disagree that Kamila's SP is a step up from last year. Whatever story is going on in his head while she's skating, it doesn't come across. The style of skating and choreography is nearly identical. But with Storm there were musical accents for her to hit, and while this song is very beautiful, it doesn't have those moments and so fades to the background.
I don't think the problem with the SP dress is inherently the long skirt, but the combination with her huge skates. Anna looks like shes wearing ice skates, while Kamila looks like she's wearing ankle boots. They look even bigger because of how she wings her feet on her extensions, which isn't a bad thing obviously, but it draws a lot of attention there. Anyone will tell you not to wear knee length skirts with ankle boots because of how they shorten one's calves.
The FS costume is just ugly. I don't mind the choreography for the most part, except for the opening moves which, while interesting, clearly don't match the music. My problem is more how the program goes in and out - she does a few moves, the drops her arms to do crossovers around the corner or setup a jump. I don't understand why she isn't told that those in-between moves also have to be done with some intention and position. Sasha does it too, but I think we all expect more from Kamila.
On the music, I'd rather skaters use classical music that have mature themes behind them only if the audience knows the story or the skater chooses to portray it, than music with blatant lyrics like Roxanne or Big Spender that the audience and skater cannot escape.

 

[kmw227]

and when did he boo his skaters?

I don't think he's ever boo'd them, but I know a lot of people don't like how he reacts when the girls fall or make mistakes. Eteri and Dudakov usually keep a pretty straight face, but Daniil...not so much. I get that he's frustrated, but it's definitely off-putting.

 

[Amei]

I don't think he's ever boo'd them, but I know a lot of people don't like how he reacts when the girls fall or make mistakes. Eteri and Dudakov usually keep a pretty straight face, but Daniil...not so much. I get that he's frustrated, but it's definitely off-putting.

A lot of coaches react at the boards or in the kiss and cry, its not like thats something exclusive to Daniil. And then there are coaches that don't show a reaction and that gets criticized.

 

[nussnacker]

I don't think he's ever boo'd them, but I know a lot of people don't like how he reacts when the girls fall or make mistakes. Eteri and Dudakov usually keep a pretty straight face, but Daniil...not so much. I get that he's frustrated, but it's definitely off-putting.

I think *some* people here are just really biased against him and are very picky when it comes to that camp. Eteri also doesn’t keep a straight face, when they falter. Rarely any coaches keep a straight face.
He’s got a ton of flaws, but if another coach had a similar reaction, I bet it would just have been interpreted differently. „He’s so worried“ instead of „he’s booing them“.
When you’re already thinking negatively of someone, it doesn’t take much to keep your thought process in the same line.

 

[Dawn825]

It’s not really unusual in Russian figure skating. Usually the coach calls all the shots and makes all the decisions.
Listen to how Misha answers on any questions about his programs - he will do whatever Mishin tells him to and that he fully trusts his coach‘s judgement.
Mishin makes a decision to swap the music in the short and leave the choreo and a grown woman Liza just does what he says.
Moskvina also seems to pretty much always make these decisions herself, she chooses who skates to what and who makes the program. Having an in-house choreographer is also very common. The whole approach to coaching-student roles and responsibilities is different in Russia compared to some other countries, which has been discussed many times.
Some will find it not good, some will love it. I remember Elizabet said that when they moved to Canada, it was burdensome to pick and organize choreo and costumes, because she was used to that work being done by the coaches. It was too much responsibility and too hard given their lack of experience in it. So clearly there will be happy and unhappy people whatever approach you choose. There’s no such thing as a perfect camp.

and when did he boo his skaters?

I hear you about how the coaches make the decisions in Russia, I get that it's part of the culture. But Mishin's and Moskvina's teams still use many different choreographers, probably because they see the value in different people's styles and insights. I do to, and I think all the girls would benefit from other experts' opinions on what would make them look best. I get that it's Eteri's decision, but it's her decision that I don't agree with.
As for my comment on the booing, he is clearly barely holding himself back. Some coaches have excellent poker faces, which I believe is the best way to support a skater while they're competing - it's not about the coach feels. Some coaches will roll their eyes or make a face when their top skater messes up at a big event. But DG, at every event for every skater for every mistake, makes a big show of looking disgusted and turning his back on them, knowing the camera is on him. He appears to have very specific intentions, which is to let everyone watching know he thinks the skater is a massive disappointment. Which is the same as booing.
I won't keep going on about this topic, I had no intention of coming on here today to talk about DG. Someone said it's unfair that there's so much attention on him, but he and Eteri choose to make it all about him so it's warranted in my opinion.

 

[kmw227]

I think *some* people here are just really biased against him and are very picky when it comes to that camp. Eteri also doesn’t keep a straight face, when they falter. Rarely any coaches keep a straight face.
He’s got a ton of flaws, but if another coach had a similar reaction, I bet it would just have been interpreted differently. „He’s so worried“ instead of „he’s booing them“.
When you’re already thinking negatively of someone, it doesn’t take much to keep your thought process in the same line.

Also very true, and I'd like to think that I'm not one of those people I think at the end of the day, Daniil, like any other coach, just wants his girls to perform their best, and when they don't, he gets frustrated. That's normal. I just feel that his reactions in particular are very over the top compared to Eteri and Sergei. They seem to be better at controlling their emotions. And maybe he's just an emotional guy, I obviously don't know him personally so I can't say for sure.

 

[Amei]

Also very true, and I'd like to think that I'm not one of those people I think at the end of the day, Daniil, like any other coach, just wants his girls to perform their best, and when they don't, he gets frustrated. That's normal. I just feel that his reactions in particular are very over the top compared to Eteri and Sergei. They seem to be better at controlling their emotions. And maybe he's just an emotional guy, I obviously don't know him personally so I can't say for sure.

Maybe its due to his starting in figure skating as a choreographer, something that requires emotion. Morozov is quite legendary with his board performances

 

[Skatesocs]

I think it's okay to show whichever emotion. People will react as they will and however they perceive you All good, IMO.

 

[nussnacker]

I hear you about how the coaches make the decisions in Russia, I get that it's part of the culture. But Mishin's and Moskvina's teams still use many different choreographers, probably because they see the value in different people's styles and insights. I do to, and I think all the girls would benefit from other experts' opinions on what would make them look best. I get that it's Eteri's decision, but it's her decision that I don't agree with.
As for my comment on the booing, he is clearly barely holding himself back. Some coaches have excellent poker faces, which I believe is the best way to support a skater while they're competing - it's not about the coach feels. Some coaches will roll their eyes or make a face when their top skater messes up at a big event. But DG, at every event for every skater for every mistake, makes a big show of looking disgusted and turning his back on them, knowing the camera is on him. He appears to have very specific intentions, which is to let everyone watching know he thinks the skater is a massive disappointment. Which is the same as booing.
I won't keep going on about this topic, I had no intention of coming on here today to talk about DG. Someone said it's unfair that there's so much attention on him, but he and Eteri choose to make it all about him so it's warranted in my opinion.

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with „disgust“, it’s a spin which you decide to put on it. He’s emotional, I can give it you. But he’s equally as happy, when they do well. I remember he would lift Evgenia up back in the day after she skated. He’s still very young, with age he probably will be more reserved with showing emotions.
I don’t know if it’s a good thing not to show any emotions.

 

[nussnacker]

Rostelecom Host Spot goes to Maiia. In men - to Mark.

 

[Skatesocs]

In men - to Mark.

 

[Jontor]

Rostelecom Host Spot goes to Maiia. In men - to Mark.

Yes, there were never any other choice than Maiia.
Dissapointing for Gumennik and Mozalev though. But I guess they didn't shine bright enough at Test Skates.

I actually think that Maiia has the easiest GP assignments. She could easily be top two at both events and reach the GPF.

 

[Fool]

Tukt's name is crossed out in the list of the ladies entries in Rostelecom now, did she withdraw? (she is still listed in Vancouver)

 

[Jontor]

Tukt's name is crossed out in the list of the ladies entries in Rostelecom now, did she withdraw? (she is still listed in Vancouver)

Oh no! I hope nothing has happened to her. Hopefully it's a mistake?

Or...maybe she's a smart girl and want to concentrate on Nationals?

 

[streams4dreams]

Oh no! I hope nothing has happened to her. Hopefully it's a mistake?