2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[flanker]

Fair enough. On Sunday 31st October, tell me who is better and why.
And I’m not accepting potential scores or intangibles.
Who has achieved more on ice besides Kamila to this point?

What do you mean by "this moment" stated above? This olympic cycle? This year? This season? This four minutes? For the previous terms I say no, Liza is definitely not the second best skater of the cycle, year, season. There were skaters who "achieved more on the ice" in any chosen period, just look at the skaters at rusnats, channel 1 trophy, final of the cup. Not to mention Worlds. And deciding who is the best in those very four minutes, or this very day if you like, makes no reasonable sense. Being stated as "best" is more than just enjoying temporary favour, which comes and goes not just from season to season. Temporary favour may cause that your UR issues are ignored, but doesn't make you the one "who achieved the most besides Kamila".

 

[Anya00]

If Anna manages to get both her quads back, can her three quad program or Sasha's five quad program even match Valieva's score?

 

[alexocfp]

What do you mean by "this moment" stated above? This olympic cycle? This year? This season? This four minutes? For the previous terms I say no, Liza is definitely not the second best skater of the cycle, year, season. There were skaters who "achieved more on the ice" in any chosen period, just look at the skaters at rusnats, channel 1 trophy, final of the cup. Not to mention Worlds. And deciding who is the best in those very four minutes, or this very day if you like, makes no reasonable sense. Being stated as "best" is more than just enjoying temporary favour, which comes and goes not just from season to season. Temporary favour may cause that your UR issues are ignored, but doesn't make you the one "who achieved the most besides Kamila".

This season from 1 September to 31 October.

Not the past (but if you use the past, she still is the holder of the second biggest prize in 2021, the silver at worlds).

Kamila is obviously one. Who is 2 and why? Convince me that it is someone else. Take me down from the cloud I’m on. Haha

Give me a name and let’s compare.

I have no problem stating the case and quantifying the reasons for my pick.

 

[colormyworld240]

As someone who normally finds Kamila unexpressive, she really sold that Bolero here. She had all the smiles and sass, and they looked real, she was feeling it. She gave a more invested performance here than she ever did with any of her lyrical programs.

 

[flanker]

This season from 1 September to 31 October.

Not the past (but if you use the past, she still is the holder of the second biggest prize in 2021, the silver at worlds).

Kamila is obviously one. Who is 2 and why? Convince me that it is someone else. Take me down from the cloud I’m on. Haha

Give me a name and let’s compare.

I have no problem stating the case and quantifying the reasons for my pick.

First I do not know why I should be dragged into some fanfiction. Second, I say that setting a "second best skater" for that fragment makes no sense, it's ridiculous. I see that many sport commentators ceaselessly set some new "temporary statistics", like the best football player of the month or week or round, but that doesn't make much sense. Even winning a stage at Tour de France doesn't make one a "best cyclist" of the world. So understand that stating a "best skater of any fragment of the season" is worthless. Still I would put Akatieva over Tuktamysheva any given time and not because that she achieved a higer score at Krasnoyarsk than Liza at SC. Same with Anna for instance. The fact that currently Liza scored 232 and Anna "just" 222 in the given time doesn't make Liza better skater, not even more succesful. Again, I do not connect the term "best" with such trifle as "from monday to sunday".

 

[alexocfp]

First I do not know why I should be dragged into some fanfiction. Second, I say that setting a "second best skater" for that fragment makes no sense, it's ridiculous. I see that many sport commentators ceaselessly set some new "temporary statistics", like the best football player of the month or week or round, but that doesn't make much sense. Even winning a stage at Tour de France doesn't make one a "best cyclist" of the world. So understand that stating a "best skater of any fragment of the season" is worthless. Still I would put Akatieva over Tuktamysheva any given time and not because that she achieved a higer score at Krasnoyarsk than Liza at SC. Same with Anna for instance. The fact that currently Liza scored 232 and Anna "just" 222 in the given time doesn't make Liza better skater, not even more succesful. Again, I do not connect the term "best" with such trifle as "from monday to sunday".

You answered my post. So you dragged yourself into it, don‘t blame me. Haha.

Nothing wrong with at the moment stats. Football has a form table.

Akatieva has done what at senior level again? Did she win a senior GP that I missed? Let’s keep this discussion for seniors.

Second, scores do make you a better skater and more successful. It’s the only objective measure of accomplishment.
Sports is about numbers and performance. Liza has outscored and out medaled Anna so far this year. Yes, Anna is not 100%, but time does not stop for sports.

And my love for Anna is well documented. I said a million times, she has all the attributes I love in an athlete and want her back 100% healthy and to never count her out. I’m an Anna fan too, and would not mind at all if she comes back and beats Liza.

Liza played hurt after her COVID last year and was not 100% either. So her ranking went down.

In a month Anna may be back healthy, and Liza may be the third best skater. I have no problem dropping her down at a later time.

 

[flanker]

You answered my post. So you dragged yourself into it. Haha.

Nothing wrong with at the moment stats. Football has a form table.

Akatieva has done what at senior level again? Did she win a senior GP that I missed? Let’s keep this discussion for seniors.

Second, scores do make you a better skater and more successful. It’s the only objective measure of accomplishment.
Sports is about numbers and performance. Liza has outscored and out medaled Anna so far this year. Yes, Anna is not 100%, but time does not stop for sports.

Liza played hurt after her COVID last year and was not 100% either. So her ranking went down.

In a month Anna may be back healthy, and Liza may be the third best skater. I have no problem dropping her down at a later time.

Yes. the sense of my reply was to point out that argumenting the way "my statement is a fact, bow to the god" (which was the nature of your coment I replied to) is silly. It is also silly to say that "Liza has outscored and out medaled Anna so far this year." So I suspect it is actually Liza who won worlds, was the best lady at WTT and all the domestic competitions etc. You also did not anyhow specify that you are talking about seniors. You asked the names, I gave them. Supplemental "fragmentation" for the purpose of keeping the original purposeful thesis is just another logical fallacy just like stating a "best skater from one insignificant point of time to another insignificant point of time."

 

[flanker]

Now let's finally talk about something else than the fanfiction above.

There is a czech movie which title is "Destiny's Name Is Kamila" (a crime story revolving aroud the woman named - wait for it - Kamila). I think it is appropriate for the skater whose name is also Kamila. 265, no need to write a long comment, just

 

[rollerblade]

Geez you guys. The Russians women swept the podium and you guys are bickering instead of celebrating.

 

[bookofcharms]

I thought it was a great lot of skating. So pleased to see Liza gaining momentum.

I think everyone needs to concentrate on enjoying every competition as it comes. Focusing too much on the Olympic team selection risks sucking the enjoyment out of the individual competitions.

And besides, there will be more skating after this season. I am actually already looking forward to the post-Olympics season, as I think it will be more enjoyable watching all the competitions without the Olympics focus.

 

[meadow]

Well done to the three medalists
Kamila at the moment really seems untouchable. Even with a mistake, her score is insane!
Good for Liza. I don't necessarily agree with the scores they're throwing at her, but to be fair judges have done crazier things when they want to prop some skaters up.
About Alena, I'm not sold on the program or the way she performed it here. There's something missing in her performance. At this point, she always seems nervous and not invested in the program while she skates. I hope she gets back her spark because right now I don't think she's a big threat to the other Russian girls.

 

[nussnacker]

Yeah, I have to say, I fully expect Alysa to beat Alyona at Skate Canada. I'd bet money on it.

I hope you didn’t lose too much money!

 

[[email protected]]

Russian ladies did it again! Watching them I forgot about all those visa/passport/quarantine issues. It was only skating.

Alyona was not as self-assured during the FP as she was the day before. I understand that there is a combination of her recovery+new program+jet lag. Anyway, she is already better than she was last season. If she is on the right track she can gradually restore her reputation. France is the next stop. I just hope that there won't be any coronavirus related "surprises" there. I feel somewhat uneasy that there is no info yet on how it all will work out in France. On the other hand, Alyona's team chances are virtually non-existent now. Hence, she has to think hard if she has the will and stamina to plan for the next quad. If she showes the progress at IdF I will be optimistic. It will mean that she is working on giving it all during Rusnats.

Liza has shown that she is a consistent 230-235 skater now. Her recent 3A track record is amazing. I am not a fan of her skating. I prefer "ballerina style". But I cannot deny her multiple qualities including her crowd pleasing skills. She is now similar to Ashley Wagner albeit with much better jumps. Alas, Ashley did not go to Korea and it finished her career. Will they give Liza a chance? Sasha despite her attitude - "the more the better" - might get realistic. Then she will limit herself to maximum 3 quads. She has to understand that she is no match to Kamila these days and the key task is to get into the team. If she does that and she is consistent she will outrun Liza, well, unless Liza adds a quad and keeps her triksels. Then Liza will enter 240 territory - it will be quite a different "animal" then. If Sasha goes for 5 quads in Japan and fails with 215-225 overall score I would think that the Fed would favor Liza as the second team candidate.

We don't know yet how Anna will perform this season. I would place her as a question mark so far. And looking at the first month of the season I don't see either Darya or Maia overtaking Liza's spot. They are not 230+ consistent skaters yet. And 230 looks like a minimum threshold for the Olympic podium.

Saying that, at this stage I don't see any non-Russian skater who can reach this threshold. We saw them all but supposedly injured Rika. The closest is Young You. If she lands her axels she may get 225 - 228. But Liza with 3 axels should comfortably beat her. Others? They are nowhere near.

Which brings me to Kamila, Kamila the goddess. Her pcs were 37+75. Men's scoring would mean 46+94=140 Her TES was 47+105=152 So, her "men's" score would be 292 How many men in history did score higher? And it's not just about the scores. Her skating is mesmerizing. I just shrug off comments of people who are not tired to praise Wakaba, Alysa - you name them and at the same time they "find" multiple "flaws" in Kamila. Life of those fans can be hard when judges see Kamila exactly the way I see her - miles above the competition. I was just spellbound watching both her SP and FP. It was as good as it can be.

All in all, as usual, anything can happen. I just hope that our skaters are as cautious as possible to keep the good shape. I am sure that Liza won't repeat her mistake going out half naked and lying on ice to get pneumonia after that. She was in a very good shape in the fall of 2018 only to spend a month in bed.

Things are as bright for Russian ladies/women as they were never before. Let's hope that they stay this way at least through the Olympics. And the WC after that? I am sure that whoever goes from Russia wins but even if not, I personally won't see a big problem.

 

[iamchrislao]

Aliona is on the right track. Peaking is everything. We certainly cannot rule her out now that she has programs that fit her and that she connects with. Overall, I am pleased. Lols I have not even watched others' skates. I just don't enjoy them as much as Aliona's skating. Onwards to GP France!

 

[Forpost]

On Russian FS forums, the prevailing opinion is that the USFed and JapaneseFed are deliberately promoting Liza. Because at the OG it is easiest to cut her off the podium.

For example:
"This is a targeted campaign against Khrustalny in order to introduce into the Russian Olympic team such a Trojan horse, which can then really be easily moved away from the podium. The beginning was laid back in Finland and now it continues."

 

[bookofcharms]

I am sure that Liza won't repeat her mistake going out half naked and lying on ice to get pneumonia after that.

lol I don't think that touching ice for a few moments during a skate gives you pneumonia. It's a virus, she would have caught it off someone.

Anyway, that Toxic exhibition was a glorious moment in Tukt's career that completely kickstarted her comeback. Iconic. I love Tuktamysheva's playful, sexy side. It's so much fun!

 

[halulupu]

I am annoyed with aljonas programm swapping. I mean she is basically doing the same thing in each programm just to different music (how many programs with the same concept wasted now?). Didn't know that Mishin is her coach now.

Yes billi music works better but only because its easier music than vivaldi. To bring vivaldi to live there needs to be some sort of choreo. So it was a clever move after all. But to anyone who is complaining about her 8.5 pcs: please the generic choreo and steps she is bringing it just not worth more. She is relying exclusively on her exquisite overall skating skills and flow and her ability of being sassy and beautiful.

 

[bookofcharms]

Vivaldi's Four Seasons is my most favourite music of all time. It is so rich, complex and bold.

But it is big big big music to skate to. It is such intense music, that a skater needs to skate very big, very confidently to it, with tonnes of energy. And there's nowhere to hide if something goes wrong. There's a lot of accents to the music that elements have to be matched to. And if momentum is lost, it becomes really obvious.

So I can understand why a piece of a less intense and demanding music was chosen if Kostornaya needs time to recalibrate.

 

[flanker]

I am annoyed with aljonas programm swapping. I mean she is basically doing the same thing in each programm just to different music (how many programs with the same concept wasted now?). Didn't know that Mishin is her coach now.

Yes billi music works better but only because its easier music than vivaldi. To bring vivaldi to live there needs to be some sort of choreo. So it was a clever move after all. But to anyone who is complaining about her 8.5 pcs: please the generic choreo and steps she is bringing it just not worth more. She is relying exclusively on her exquisite overall skating skills and flow and her ability of being sassy and beautiful.

Yes, half of Liza's non-technical content consists of staying on the place and shaking her back and when she's moving it's slow as meadow slaver. She's still telegraphing jumps. That truly deserves same/higher SS and TR. C'mon.

The complaints are there because in any comparison Liza's non-jumping abilities and content are weak but heavilily prized. People mistake seductive moves for quality, that's why I'm so against the word "selling the program" so often used, because "selling" is not about the quality but about the camouflage. Any travelling salesman is trained to sell anything, even if that's just golden dung.

 

[florin]

On Russian FS forums, the prevailing opinion is that the USFed and JapaneseFed are deliberately promoting Liza. Because at the OG it is easiest to cut her off the podium.

For example:
"This is a targeted campaign against Khrustalny in order to introduce into the Russian Olympic team such a Trojan horse, which can then really be easily moved away from the podium. The beginning was laid back in Finland and now it continues."

What? do they write this on all Russian forums? I didn't see that

I don't really believe in such logical constructions myself. But it is possible to understand the mindset of those people who make such hypotheses. Suddenly the judges stopped noticing the Liza's URs and the PСS suddenly rose to 75 (Finland), and in SP Lisa suddenly began to receive 80. Hmm... interesting... And what do we have on the calendar? Olympic year... Hmm.... wait a second...