2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Nogagolova]

Who asked Sadkova, she is missing the season due to injury. Tsybinova, Frolova, Konstantinova miss this year's competitions. Trusova has a sore leg, there were no other official statements about Sasha's health.

 

[Anya00]

Who asked Sadkova, she is missing the season due to injury. Tsybinova, Frolova, Konstantinova miss this year's competitions. Trusova has a sore leg, there were no other official statements about Sasha's health.

Does anyone know what injury (how serious?) and if it will be the entire season?

 

[flanker]

Oldie goldie times of this thread are back!

 

[Lzbee]

What has Aliona done this time to warrant such a bashing though?

1. She landed two 3As in competition
2. Earned a bronze medal at a GP
3. Publicly thanked her coaches for putting up with her
4. Refused to speak to journalists
5. Understands what needs to be done (Daniil's words)
6. Is going to all her practices (Daniil's words)
7. Was talked about in Daniil's interview

It's damned if you do and damned if you don't and that's the easiest way to kill motivation. This bashing is exactly why Daniil needs to stop talking about Aliona.

 

[Azikin]

What has Aliona done this time to warrant such a bashing though?

1. She landed two 3As in competition
2. Earned a bronze medal at a GP
3. Publicly thanked her coaches for putting up with her
4. Refused to speak to journalists
5. Understands what needs to be done (Daniil's words)
6. Is going to all her practices (Daniil's words)
7. Was talked about in Daniil's interview

It's damned if you do and damned if you don't and that's the easiest way to kill motivation. This bashing is exactly why Daniil needs to stop talking about Aliona.

Well obviously she's not at her best and she could be better if she gets her head right and maybe train more, as Daniil said. And I'm saying that because I'm on her side and want her to be the best she can.

 

[Lzbee]

Well obviously she's not at her best and she could be better if she gets her head right and maybe train more, as Daniil said. And I'm saying that because I'm on her side and want her to be the best she can.

Sure, you put that nicely but there are other people calling her all sorts of names and being vindicated about it because of her own coach's words.

 

[bookofcharms]

And so the conveyer belt of girls continues to move. Hero to zero in a blink. Who will be thrown off next?

There's always something so vicious about the way these girls are cast aside. The moment they falter, everyone turns their backs. Kostornaya, Lipnitskaya and Medvedeva especially could form a club of former champions that were shredded on their way out.

Do people just want her to give up?

I actually think yes. Having a struggling skater probably diminishes the appearance of invincibility of the training group, so they want to get former champs out quickly. Zagitova got out really fast before any decline actually manifested itself and I think that's why she left with her reputation in tact. I realised long ago that none of this is about individual skaters themselves. It's about how it makes the training group look.

Daniil really dropped Kostornaya in it. As we can see, fans of Team Tutberidze are now feeling obligated to dislike and discredit Kostornaya to support the team. She's been frozen out, basically.

 

[flanker]

And so the conveyer belt of girls continues to move. Hero to zero in a blink. Who will be thrown off next?

There's always something so vicious about the way these girls are cast aside. The moment they falter, everyone turns their backs. Kostornaya, Lipnitskaya and Medvedeva especially could form a club of former champions that were shredded on their way out.



I actually think yes. Having a struggling skater probably diminishes the appearance of invincibility of the training group, so they want to get former champs out quickly. Zagitova got out really fast before any decline actually manifested itself and I think that's why she left with her reputation in tact. I realised long ago that none of this is about individual skaters themselves. It's about how it makes the training group look.

Where did you miss that it was the team that convinced Alina to compete after the olympics, who persuaded her to go to the 2019 worlds etc. It was Alina's decision to take a break, not her team wish. Alina never was "cast aside" just like Aliona is not cast aside.

Those fantasies simply have no base in reality.

 

[bookofcharms]

Zagitova was a smart girl and got out quick, she got hold of the narrative before it got her. If Zagitova was still competing with no triple axel and no quad, she'd probably be getting really rough treatment. There'd be all sorts of discussion about her motivation, her discipline, her fitness etc. I think it's very clear that Sambo 70 (and the fans of the group) doesn't have much time for skaters who aren't at their peak. Gosh I've just read pages of people saying just that.

Instead, Zagitova got a wonderful send off with the approval of everyone and is now happily doing shows. Smart.

It's worth noting that in 2018 - 2019, Zagitova was still Sambo 70s main star. But once Alyona, Anna and Sasha aged up to seniors, things changed very quickly.

I was disappointed when Zagitova retired so early, but now (especially since reading a lot of stuff today) I realise just how smart it was of her to end things early before the narrative changed on her and she was discredited and her achievements tarnished.

It's all about timing, isn't it? Had the Olympics been in 2020, I reckon Kostornaya could have perhaps won it and been an idol. And for Zagitova, had she been born in a different year her fate could have been very different (and maybe similar to Kostornaya's).

 

[Fluture]

Where did you miss that it was the team that convinced Alina to compete after the olympics, who persuaded her to go to the 2019 worlds etc. It was Alina's decision to take a break, not her team wish. Alina never was "cast aside" just like Aliona is not cast aside.

Those fantasies simply have no base in reality.

Pretty much easily answered: because they had no other senior skaters back then. As soon as the 3A turned senior, she was no longer needed. But of course, it was her losing motivation, nothing else. In the end, it‘s always somehow the girls' fault. And I have to say it‘s a rather clever system. Sickening, too, but clever. Because it ensures that the team's reputation never suffers. If the reasons always lie somewhere else, they can never be blamed for anything.

 

[Tokyo Drift]

But I will bow out here now as well

 

[bookofcharms]

Pretty much easily answered: because they had no other senior skaters back then. As soon as the 3A turned senior, she was no longer needed. But of course, it was her losing motivation, nothing else. In the end, it‘s always somehow the girls' fault. And I have to say it‘s a rather clever system. Sickening, too, but clever. Because it ensures that the team's reputation never suffers. If the reasons always lie somewhere else, they can never be blamed for anything.

Zagitova did the best out of any of the girls in arranging a clean and smooth exit. Zagitova's early exit while she was still relatively on top preserved her golden reputation and also the reputation of her coaches.

Her successful transition will probably be something her team mates will look to emulate should they experience good results at the Olympics.

 

[flanker]

Gosh I've just read pages of people saying just that.

I think this summarizes everything

 

[florin]

Pretty much easily answered: because they had no other senior skaters back then. As soon as the 3A turned senior, she was no longer needed. But of course, it was her losing motivation, nothing else. In the end, it‘s always somehow the girls' fault. And I have to say it‘s a rather clever system. Sickening, too, but clever. Because it ensures that the team's reputation never suffers. If the reasons always lie somewhere else, they can never be blamed for anything.

The reputation of a team can suffer only if the team is not successful. The very fact of the success of this team refutes all your conjectures- it is impossible to systematically achieve outstanding success without the right working atmosphere. Plus, this is always confirmed by the words of newcomers who go there, this year Tarasova Morozov, who said about it that they like "how everything works in Crystal"

 

[chasingneverland]

Make no mistake, where her career is now is entirely of her own making.

Not entirely. She had no control over covid/pneumonia, it's long term effects, injuries, extended off ice time, etc.

 

[Fluture]

The reputation of a team can suffer only if the team is not successful. The very fact of the success of this team refutes all your conjectures- it is impossible to systematically achieve outstanding success without the right working atmosphere. Plus, this is always confirmed by the words of newcomers who go there, this year Tarasova Morozov, who said about it that they like "how everything works in Crystal"

Sucess is relative. Are the only thing that matters for you gold medals? Then yes, they are successful. But for me, a coaching team should be able to do more than that. Has TeamTutberidze ever successfully helped a growing, struggling athlete through their problems and seen them come out on top? No. They all either retired due to lacking motivation or injury, or changed coaches. They have had no success in this, which, fair enough, comes from the fact they‘re likely not even trying. If you can‘t work the way they want you to (reasons be damned), you‘re out. Why? Because they have enough young, hungry kids that are "willing" (more like: able) to put in the work. There you go: conveyor belt. And, depending on your definition, a very successful one. The thing is just that not everybody likes to watch this kind of system in sport and I think we‘re free to criticize its effects.

 

[chasingneverland]

That’s only half the story.

She abandoned them first. That they took her back was a favor to her, not them.

When you leave someone and return, who should hold the power?

And once they took her back, the onus is on her to prove herself, not the other way around.

Plus, this is sports. It’s a meritocracy, not a charity. They have Maia as the #3 now so they don’t have as much desire to stick with Alena to see if she can reclaim past glories anymore.

It’s another reason they are semi burying her in the press.

Wouldn't Maiia/Alena be #4?

 

[florin]

Sucess is relative.

You lost me at this point Sucess is the only objective thing in our mutual exchange of subjective opinions. I am only interested in the result - brilliant athletes with amazing programs. TT successfully provides all this to the sports world.

The fact that a successful sports career in modern russian figure skating is short-lived - there are objective reasons for this. It is obvious - unbearable competition is reinforced by an unfair outdated quota system. When the girls achieve the results that satisfy them, they leave the race.

The example of Tuktamysheva should not be offered - firstly, she has not yet achieved the desired result. Plus it just seems like she's 24 years old, she's actually 21 (I'm talking about the basically missed 2015-2018 years)

 

[Artemisa]

I think everyone has a little true in what they are saying ... even if in opposite direction .... i'm only saying a few things:

_ Nobody in Russia Federation cares about the method of the Eteri's team as long as it produces Olympic champions... even if they are only for one season .. even if they aren't the most correct ones
_ Even if Dannil has some reason... we've never seen Mishin talk like that about his athletes
_ If Liza was with Eteri ... would have left skating a long time ago .. look at sofia she is still there because she is with mishin
_ Kostornaia isn't Anna or Sasha in mentality ... so after leaving .. of course she will look like the lazy one ...
_ I think kostornaia is really trying to change the only question is if she has time

P.S. I think nobody has more will to win than Anna (and she isn't my favorite but that girl has an iron will)

 

[florin]

The second (except for the old quota system) objective reason for short successful careers is the objectively occurring rapid development of russian ladies FS. Firstly, the obvious increase in the complexity of technic. But the second, no less important (although perhaps less obvious) , is the increase in the complexity of choreography while maintaining the complexity of the technique.

This leads to the fact that a 20-year-old figure skater realizes that she objectively "does not correspond to modern realities" - her formation as a figure skater happened approximately 8-10 years ago when there were no such strict requirements for the quality of choreography, when the pinnacle of quality was the skate of Yuna Kim in Vancouver-2010 (with slightly less empty program than the others).

She sees the programs of modern 11-year-old girls with her own eyes, remembers her programs at the age of 11, realizes that if a time machine had transferred modern girls to her 11th birthday, they would have torn everyone apart there.

Then she adds two plus two - her time is gone or almost gone and the combination of the complexity of technique and choreography, which was the peak of her strength for her, required a personal feat and an inner ascent of her own Everest - for a girl 5 years younger than her, it's just a difficult task, nothing more.

She realizes that it is unlikely that she, as Tuktamysheva, will be given 70+ PCS just for "let Liza go to the Olympics already, you heartless people!" After that, she looks at her medals, her contracts and TV shows, shrugs her shoulders and ends her career.