2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[esteticlove]

I guess this topic will always come up again and again. While I would have continued such a discussion earlier, I've come to the conclusion recently that the whole outburst of critics is often due to a cultural difference and hence difference in the perception of what is happening. I can speak for me, as a representative of the Eastern European culture, which is close to the Russian, and say that I see nothing controversial. We have been struggling for years politically and therefore on our daily basis, we have had to live with less money and a lot of struggles, therefore we know that to achieve something big, it is required to make a lot of sacrifices with yourself. And in the context of sports, this means also sacrifice your health. Just for an example, we recently won the Olympic gold in the team rhythmic gymnastics with one of the members being injured (broken foot) and having pain during the entire programs. Our karate gold medalist got hit in the back and fell unconscious just before winning the medal. No one blaimed their coaches for letting them compete. Because those athletes are also people and they are fithing for their own dreams. Its always a lot easier to stand from the side and just say "leave it, you have to stay healthy, stay comfy, stay with a loving coach who praises you all the time, take all the free time you wish etc.".

As I understand, Dashas injury is so bad that she withdrew. Trusova is also not competing at the moment. What more are the coaches supposed to do?

 

[Sjs5572]

I guess this topic will always come up again and again. While I would have continued such a discussion earlier, I've come to the conclusion recently that the whole outburst of critics is often due to a cultural difference and hence difference in the perception of what is happening. I can speak for me, as a representative of the Eastern European culture, which is close to the Russian, and say that I see nothing controversial. We have been struggling for years politically and therefore on our daily basis, we have had to live with less money and a lot of struggles, therefore we know that to achieve something big, it is required to make a lot of sacrifices with yourself. And in the context of sports, this means also sacrifice your health. Just for an example, we recently won the Olympic gold in the team rhythmic gymnastics with one of the members being injured (broken foot) and having pain during the entire programs. Our karate gold medalist got hit in the back and fell unconscious just before winning the medal. No one blaimed their coaches for letting them compete. Because those athletes are also people and they are fithing for their own dreams. Its always a lot easier to stand from the side and just say "leave it, you have to stay healthy, stay comfy, stay with a loving coach who praises you all the time, take all the free time you wish etc.".

As I understand, Dashas injury is so bad that she withdrew. Trusova is also not competing at the moment. What more are the coaches supposed to do?

I guess this topic will always come up again and again. While I would have continued such a discussion earlier, I've come to the conclusion recently that the whole outburst of critics is often due to a cultural difference and hence difference in the perception of what is happening. I can speak for me, as a representative of the Eastern European culture, which is close to the Russian, and say that I see nothing controversial. We have been struggling for years politically and therefore on our daily basis, we have had to live with less money and a lot of struggles, therefore we know that to achieve something big, it is required to make a lot of sacrifices with yourself. And in the context of sports, this means also sacrifice your health. Just for an example, we recently won the Olympic gold in the team rhythmic gymnastics with one of the members being injured (broken foot) and having pain during the entire programs. Our karate gold medalist got hit in the back and fell unconscious just before winning the medal. No one blaimed their coaches for letting them compete. Because those athletes are also people and they are fithing for their own dreams. Its always a lot easier to stand from the side and just say "leave it, you have to stay healthy, stay comfy, stay with a loving coach who praises you all the time, take all the free time you wish etc.".

As I understand, Dashas injury is so bad that she withdrew. Trusova is also not competing at the moment. What more are the coaches supposed to do?

Change the training methods, to rely less on overtraining and calorie limits. Really, the whole paradigm in figure skating needs to change. One should not need to sacrifice minors' health to succeed at a sport in the 21st century. Should we turn a blind eye when the skating arena is turned into a Circus Maximus?

 

[Draculus]

Really, the whole paradigm in figure skating needs to change. One should not need to sacrifice minors' health to succeed at a sport in the 21st century. Should we turn a blind eye when the skating arena is turned into a Circus Maximus?

Am I got you right, that sacrifice adult's heath to succeed at a sport is still ok in the 21th century?

 

[Sjs5572]

Actually no. It's just less egregious when an adult makes the decision to risk their health. For example, CTE in American Football is a major problem and the sport should be reformed.

Am I got you right, that sacrifice adult's heath to succeed at a sport is still ok in the 21th century

 

[DougDorsey]

I'm hearing that 11-year-old Zoya Kovyazina is the newest addition to Team Tutberidze.

Georgiy, one of the young coaches at Team Tutberidze, was with her at the Volkov Memorial this weekend.

But does anyone know whether she's still in her trial period, or already accepted?

 

[lurkerghost1]

What season are yogurt and Lukashova going to be junior eligible? Seems at the current environment you need Ultra-C in your second novice year just to have a shot at JGP, that's how Zinina got in over many others

 

[flanker]

What season are yogurt and Lukashova going to be junior eligible? Seems at the current environment you need Ultra-C in your second novice year just to have a shot at JGP, that's how Zinina got in over many others

Valeria is 10, her birthday is on 17th june, so she should be junior eligible in 2024-25 season. Same season as Margarita Baziliuk.

 

[fabienne1996]

I fall somewhere in between. I don't think Eteri is responsible for Usacheva's injury. It was clearly a fluke injury on a bad takeoff. And as other posters have said every skater is injured at some point.

But the way she lets Zhelezhnykov talk about this injury and how it is on Daria for overtraining herself does make me wonder about the background leading up to NHK. Daria's not stupid, I'm sure she saw how 1) everyone else is landing 3A/quads besides her (even Sinitsyna showed 4T) and 2) Team Tut conditioned Kostornaia's return on restoring 3A.

So I feel very uncomfortable with him criticizing Daria here when every minute she spends in Sambo-70 she is reminded how she is "behind" and priority B or lower for the coaches. And it does make me wonder if Team Tut is really looking out for these girls especially the ones in the B-team.

On other note it is possible that this one could very likely end Usacheva's career. If she isn't ready to skate in a year she will not get a Season's Best for 22-23 and that will be it for her. Or even if she does come back but not at the 215+ level it will still be the nail in the coffin as she will be surpassed by the Junior Super Six

The thing is? Its not an injury that came out of nowhere. If i remember correctly Daria herself told the press at test skates that the reason why she doesn't have any ultra c elements ready for this season, is because she has been dealing with pain in the hip,groin and it think lower back area. Which would make it the same area as where the injury apparently now occured. So if i did remember that correctly and she said that then it seems like she has been dealing with pain in that area since off season, and no one can tell me the coaches did not know that,. And thats the point we speak about, they knew that she had pains in that part , and know the. Dancing instructor is blaming the girl for not telling? And the higher ups there just let him run his mouth ? Who expects a 15 year old girl in this team to come forward? When all they get told is that its normal, when they hear that this may as well be one of the circle of hell they have to go through? How can anyone think that they would come forward when they see their choreographer putting down another girl in the media for actually beeing more careful and from what i think listening to her body? That does not make anybody think they can talk about pains with them from my standpoint , the opposite actually, but in that case daria didnt hide

 

[PavelSky]

Maria Gordeeva (CSKA, team Davydov)
4T attempt.

Date of Birth: Aug. 7, 2009

 

[nussnacker]

If i remember correctly Daria herself told the press at test skates that the reason why she doesn't have any ultra c elements ready for this season, is because she has been dealing with pain in the hip,groin and it think lower back area.

You don’t remember correctly. You have a bit of a selective memory and always add details to your convenience.
Daria mentioned she had a minor injury 2 weeks prior to test skates and didn’t train 3A during that time, but she didn’t specify what it was. She just said she was ready to try 3As again after test skates, so it sounded like she recovered and was done with it. It might have been something related to what she’s dealing with now, it could’ve been something completely unrelated. One thing for sure: for some people dots always connect in a way to arrive to a certain conclusion they desire, even if they have to add a bit of their own imagination to it.

If you can hear from what she said there, she did lower her training load because of that minor injury, she decided to put off work on 3A. Of course she talked to coaches to arrive to that decision, don’t you think? What makes you think this was being treated different this time around? Perhaps she didn’t have major pain going into NHK, but it became worse on the day of the competition.

 

[Ella339]

The thing is? Its not an injury that came out of nowhere. If i remember correctly Daria herself told the press at test skates that the reason why she doesn't have any ultra c elements ready for this season, is because she has been dealing with pain in the hip,groin and it think lower back area.

In the longer video, her hand goes to her inner thigh immediately, and you can see she has kinesio tape there.
Everyone knew.

As for a 15 year old athlete herself refusing to keep training and competing in that camp...
Remember the documentary about gymnast Rita Mamun I mentioned a few days ago? Mamun is 20 when the documentary starts, and lets herself be treated in a way I never would have thought possible for an "adult" athlete...
I don't know how anyone can pretend these literal children, who grow up incredibly sheltered, and "conditioned" in more ways than one, are equipped to stand up to their coaches.

 

[fabienne1996]

Wso if so many say its a cultural thing, you think that its ok and normal for a choreographer to speak how they are proud of one skater for only eating 2! Shrimps? Really? Thats not normal in any kind of country in my eyes nor should it come across as ok or normal, why do you think it is normal? . They do not even have a nutritionist if i remember correctly, zhenya only learned in canada what and how she could eat to have the right body and weight . Is it so hard for coaches in russia or zny other countries that share mabye the same cultural thinking to get a proffesional nutritionist for the skaters? That teaches them the right way? Why ? Also why is it apparently a problem to get a sport psychologist for them, sho could hellp work through mental things like mabye sashas mental block? Is it so frowned upon in russia or why is it seemingly impossible for the best team in russias lady figureskating to get their skaters the best care there can be? And no neither eteri, nor daniil nor sergeij are professional psychologist nor nutritionist as far as i know. And why does it seem so hard for them to mabye try another trainings approach for girls that are 18 , i mean if i want to be the best coach i can be? Than i damm well try at least to show the world that yes my skasters also can last.. or is that also soemthing that's not done in russia? Please help me understand because i dont understand how anyone in here can just shrug it off with the words thats normal
And i am also asking for the other training camps not only eteris

 

[nussnacker]

Wso if so many say its a cultural thing, you think that its ok and normal for a choreographer to speak how they are proud of one skater for only eating 2! Shrimps? Really? Thats not normal in any kind of country in my eyes nor should it come across as ok or normal, . They do not even have a nutritionist if i remember correctly, zhenya only learned in canada what and how she could eat to have the right body and weight . Is it so hard for coaches in russia or zny other countries that share mabye the same cultural thinking to get a proffesional nutritionist for the skaters? That teaches them the right way? Why ? Also why is it apparently a problem to get a sport psychologist for them, sho could hellp work through mental things like mabye sashas mental block? Is it so frowned upon in russia or why is it seemingly impossible for the best team in russias lady figureskating to get their skaters the best care there can be? And no neither eteri, nor daniil nor sergeij are professional psychologist nor nutritionist as far as i know. And why does it seem so hard for them to mabye try another trainings approach for girls that are 18 , i mean if i want to be the best coach i can be? Than i damm well try at leats to show the world that yes my saksters also can last.. or is that also soemthing that's not done in russia? Please help me understand because i dont understand how anyone in here can just shrug it off eith the words thats normal

Changing the topic?
Lol, okay.
First, he didn’t say he was proud she eats 2 shrimps, that’s again a fruit of your imagination, I‘m not even sure the Interviewer was being literal with that question.

Anna herself says she doesn’t have any diet, she just tries to eat balanced and properly (nutrition-wise). She spends a lot of calories in training and prefers to eat before competitions, unlike other athletes.

Фигуристка Анна Щербакова: лучше чувствую себя, когда пообедаю

Фигуристка Анна Щербакова: лучше чувствую себя, когда пообедаю

www.championat.com

Tell me, which club in Russia has a nutritionist? I’m really curious how many you can name. Exactly. Of course all skaters are given some general guidance on what to eat, but is it really up to parents to make good nutritious meals at home.

There’s nothing that it frowned upon about sports psychologists in Russia, you’re just stereotyping at this point. But it is again a choice that coaches and skaters make for themselves individually. Perhaps they looked at it and decided there isn’t a need for one for Sasha? Why are you speaking as if you for sure know what’s best for them? Kolyada doesn’t work with a psychologist now and seems like he’s not going to seek that help at this point. Why wouldn’t Mishin do that for him? Maybe they don’t think it is a solution for their specific case?

Seriously, some people on the internet seem to think everyone’s an idiot except for them. That they know what others need to do and others are just stupid and don’t understand anything. The thing is, you don’t know how things are going in their lives, but you are here thinking you can make better decisions for them sitting on your couch.

 

[Thrashergurl]

But Alina was also injured. She skated with tape on her knee a few times if I remember correctly, and the injury talk was all over the place.

Who could forget when she tripped over the chord, or when her grandma burned her and it affected her skating.

Alina was smart enough to stop skating when she saw she was not top gun anymore and it wouldn’t affect her endorsements. Didn’t she withdraw after the short program of the GPF? Most skaters would’ve loved to have earned that spot.

 

[MCsAngel2]

But Alina was also injured. She skated with tape on her knee a few times if I remember correctly, and the injury talk was all over the place.

Who could forget when she tripped over the chord, or when her grandma burned her and it affected her skating.

Alina was smart enough to stop skating when she saw she was not top gun anymore and it wouldn’t affect her endorsements. Didn’t she withdraw after the short program of the GPF? Most skaters would’ve loved to have earned that spot.

She didn't withdraw, she finished 6th of 6.

 

[Thrashergurl]

She didn't withdraw, she finished 6th of 6.

Thank you! For some reason I thought she only skated the SP and then withdrew for the long. Not sure why I thought that.

 

[Alex65]

Changing the topic?
Lol, okay.
First, he didn’t say he was proud she eats 2 shrimps, that’s again a fruit of your imagination, I‘m not even sure the Interviewer was being literal with that question.

...

This is the direct speech of Emma Hajiyeva. Her own observations, which she shares with Gleichengauz here:
https://youtu.be/tj6Xgmurl9I?t=1828
Emma wonders how this is possible for an athlete? Gleichengauz thinks Anna is lucky that she only needs two shrimps for dinner. There are English subtitles there - you can check.

 

[fabienne1996]

You know what fried is right in one point . anyone who can read can see that this team literally blames their skaters always , a. Either they are too lazy when they are actually listenening to their bodys or they. Are to blame for the injury because they supposedly didnt say anything ? And you stand behind that? Wow give yourself a big clap on the back then, if you think its ok to blame a teenager for her injury, if its ok to put another barely 18 year old girl down in the media. Lets tell the truth here the girls are dammed if they do tell and dammed if they dont tell . Seriously it cant go both ways you cant say oh a15year old girls (ehich by the way are in no way adults not matter what the dancing instructor or TAT say)Should tell the coaches if they are in pain and if they dont they are at fault . Its also the coaches job to notice if something is wrong with their athletes . And on the other hand they tell the media another skater is lazy when all she does is actually listening to her body, she herself said she is a bit scared of getting another injury which is completely understandable because she saw and can now see what that could mean for a skaters career(and so many in here jumped on that wagon, saying she is to blame, she is a diva , she is difficult , she doesnt deserve to be in that camp , people in here who think that girl should be kissing the feet of the team just for taking her back but hey she is just a 18 year old girl who is at fault , but the grown ups in that team , in your eyes are never at fault never , if the rest of the girls would drop out from injuries or mental blocks than you would probably still say the words ! Its normal, its their way , they can do no wrong, they are the best ) .


Regarding to daria i hope its neither of the diagnosis that are beeing pushed around online, because if thats ehat she has the the tear in the muscle/ligliament could have actually torn a part of the bone off . And that takes more than just afew weeks to heal let alone jump triples ,because that could mean a recovery time from a few months to a year and everything inbetween , which also could mean the end of her career because in the depths this country has it would be hard to come back . And i for one like daria a lot and i absolutely dont wish for her career to end like thsi so.lets hope it doesnt ?

 

[Amei]

But Alina was also injured. She skated with tape on her knee a few times if I remember correctly, and the injury talk was all over the place.

I believe she had some knee problems when she was in juniors, my guess is that she puts it on if she ever feels soreness or tiredness in the muscles. JJ Watt an American football player injured his elbow a long time ago, the elbow healed but he got used to playing with it and decided to continue to play with it because it keeps the elbow safe.

 

[nussnacker]

This is the direct speech of Emma Hajiyeva. Her own observations, which she shares with Gleichengauz here:
https://youtu.be/tj6Xgmurl9I?t=1828
Emma wonders how this is possible for an athlete? Gleichengauz thinks Anna is lucky that she only needs two shrimps for dinner. There are English subtitles there - you can check.

Yes. The claim was that he said he’s proud she’s eating 2 shrimps. He didn’t say he’s proud. He said she doesn’t have addiction to food and she’s lucky. I’m also saying I’m not sure Emma literally meant 2 shrimps or was it just little food by her standards? There are many people who tell me I eat very little and I don’t think I do.