2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Amei]

Yes, and that is why Andrews has constantly been in the World Standings List top 24 these last seasons. Basically, these competitions award you if you only show up. And those senior B's with no tough competition give you a lot of WS points. The system is very flawed, it guarantees that if you do a lot of competitions you will get high WS ranking.

I think Mishin is the only Russian coach that understands this. He has always sent out his skaters to a lot of competitons, and it helps a lot ranking wise. Tuktamysheva, in her struggling years still managed to get high ranking, and Samodurova too.

Ehh, I don't think Samodurova has exactly been held up on WS points by doing small competitions - she's only been senior for 4 years in 18-19 she did not struggle and she won Europeans that year so that had her high in the rankings 19/20 while she did struggle she wasn't abysmal and finished 5/6 at her GP events (I think people see the Kostornaia/Shcherbakova/Trusova shined it really made a Russian skater struggling look much worse). Her WS the following year from COVID because very few skaters earned points and earned enough to make a substantial change to their number of points. This year she dropped down to 39th ranking.

Yes, and that is why Andrews has constantly been in the World Standings List top 24 these last seasons. Basically, these competitions award you if you only show up. And those senior B's with no tough competition give you a lot of WS points. The system is very flawed, it guarantees that if you do a lot of competitions you will get high WS ranking.

Yes, I agree there is a flaw in the system that rewards people who can go to many of these small competitions and even if they don't win they still get a lot of points.

 

[Scott512]

Yes, and that is why Andrews has constantly been in the World Standings List top 24 these last seasons. Basically, these competitions award you if you only show up. And those senior B's with no tough competition give you a lot of WS points. The system is very flawed, it guarantees that if you do a lot of competitions you will get high WS ranking.

I think Mishin is the only Russian coach that understands this. He has always sent out his skaters to a lot of competitons, and it helps a lot ranking wise. Tuktamysheva, in her struggling years still managed to get high ranking, and Samodurova too.

Interesting. If Liza can do many of these lower level competitions over the years so can many other Russian ladies who are ranked way beneath her.

But it makes it even more insane that for 3 full seasons Anastasia did not have an International competition not even a stinking senior B. She should have had 1 or 2 a year even if she wasn't getting challengers. This way she would have avoided having her ranking fall off the charts completely which killed her this year starting every big SP in the 1st or 2nd group. If she had one senior B a season for 3 years she would have kept her ranking up and probably would have been in the top 20 this year and skated in the 3rd or 4th group in the short program which could have made a huge difference in her scores and pcs.

Shame on her coach for not pushing her for senior B competition in the last 3 years.

Credit to those who take advantage of these smaller competitions. But they are important and do count. I hope Nastya it does 1 or 2 senior Bs next season for Georgia. It could be a way for her to build her ranking up early in the season so when the bigger competitions come at Europeans and worlds she's in the world she's in the 3rd or 4th group in the short program.

The problem for Russia has of course been with the ladies for many many years they've had so much talent to choose from they can let some skaters just fade away into oblivion. Sad

 

[Amei]

Interesting. If Liza can do many of these lower level competitions over the years so can many other Russian ladies who are ranked way beneath her.

But it makes it even more insane that for 3 full seasons Anastasia did not have an International competition not even a stinking senior B. She should have had 1 or 2 a year even if she wasn't getting challengers. This way she would have avoided having her ranking fall off the charts completely which killed her this year starting every big SP in the 1st or 2nd group. If she had one senior B a season for 3 years she would have kept her ranking up and probably would have been in the top 20 this year and skated in the 3rd or 4th group in the short program which could have made a huge difference in her scores and pcs.

Shame on her coach for not pushing her for senior B competition in the last 3 years.

Credit to those who take advantage of these smaller competitions. But they are important and do count. I hope Nastya it does 1 or 2 senior Bs next season for Georgia. It could be a way for her to build her ranking up early in the season so when the bigger competitions come at Europeans and worlds she's in the world she's in the 3rd or 4th group in the short program.

The problem for Russia has of course been with the ladies for many many years they've had so much talent to choose from they can let some skaters just fade away into oblivion. Sad

Well Tuktamysheva has been on the senior international scene for 10 years, so likely she's got prize money, and probably had good funding for most if not all of those years from the national team and the St. Petersburg fed to afford the entry fees and traveling costs to go to those smaller competitions that lower ranked skaters might not have. I don't think Gubanova was that lucky with funding from Russia, which was probably a blessing because it allowed her to easily transfer to Georgia when she finally did make the decision to transfer.

 

[Scott512]

Well Tuktamysheva has been on the senior international scene for 10 years, so likely she's got prize money, and probably had good funding for most if not all of those years from the national team and the St. Petersburg fed to afford the entry fees and traveling costs to go to those smaller competitions that lower ranked skaters might not have. I don't think Gubanova was that lucky with funding from Russia, which was probably a blessing because it allowed her to easily transfer to Georgia when she finally did make the decision to transfer.

True about Tut and Nastya. Funding is the key. But how much funding will the senior b available in Europe take?

Whatever happened it's great Nastya skates for Georgia and has a future. Too many other Russian girls careers are stuck in n neutral and not going anywhere.

 

[Azikin]

Whatever happened it's great Nastya skates for Georgia and has a future.

The irony.....

 

[Sugarpova]

This is a really, really, really stupid idea that just won't work. I think the head of the Russian Fed proposed then quickly walked it back.... and then the head of either the sports ministry or olympic committee mentioned something it again.

Russia already has the Cup of Russia Series. Inviting outsiders is not going to raise the stature of the event... not even Chinese in Pairs. The Chinese won't want to do it... and the problem is that even if the best pairs skaters are there that pairs in itself is not a big draw.

THe best thing Russia could do right now is just continue the Cup of Russia series in an elevated format... but also have their best skaters perform in competitions that have a kind of pro-am feel to it... something like Ice Age but more elite.

I would also like to see them experiment in new forms of competition with new rule changes. Only in Russia could you have a man and a women do side by side quad jumps. There is room for a new discipline that sits between singles and pairs skating where it's two people skating but they have more of a singles skillset.

Nina Mozer has talked about how pairs skating has become stale. So let her come up with a new and fresh ruleset and have all the Russian pairs compete according to that.

There is a lot Russia could do that's new and interesting and thus valuable for developing figure skating into the future that would be far more fulfilling than sulking about how they can't compete internationally.

what a wonderful post really! it would be great if somthing like that happened. But for inventive moves & alternative disciplines in fs & competition there needs to be some new blood at the top of the fed not old & stale atmosphere like Gorshkov & co create.
I had lots of hope when Anton became the head of our SPb fed but I really became disappointed over time bc he just says the same formalities a head in our fs does. I really dont expect anyhting new & exciting sadly

 

[Scott512]

The irony.....

The irony.....

For real.

And it looks like she moved to the right country Georgia.

Will Russia have any ladies transfer countries this offseason?

Because of the banking situation and Russian banks being blocked internationally maybe some of the Russian figure skaters should move their training bases to outside Russia where it would be easier to travel internationally. I don't know why these great athletes have not thought of that. Many of the skaters can train in other countries and do zoom meetings with their coaches. Or the coaches can move too. Anna Sasha and the rest don't owe Russia much anymore it's time for them to watch their backs and their futures.

 

[Scott512]

what a wonderful post really! it would be great if somthing like that happened. But for inventive moves & alternative disciplines in fs & competition there needs to be some new blood at the top of the fed not old & stale atmosphere like Gorshkov & co create.
I had lots of hope when Anton became the head of our SPb fed but I really became disappointed over time bc he just says the same formalities a head in our fs does. I really dont expect anyhting new & exciting sadly

Unfortunately these sports leaders no matter the country they are in become like politicians over time settled in their ways continuing to do the same old thingg. I think everybody was hoping good things for Anton it's on as the leader of the Saint Petersburg figure skating federation but doesn't he live in Moscow?
This is that kind of like asking someone from Moscow to be the mayor of Saint Petersburg?

Russia obviously needs new leaders with new ideas and in their figure skating federation. Also RUSADA needs to be overhauled after allowing the KV urine sample to sit out there for 40 days not being analyzed and then sprung on them after they walked away with the team event at the Olympics. I feel the same way about WADA and the IOC and the ISU. The leaders have been in place too long they need new leaders who are younger and more open minded. This Thomas Bach from the ioc is terrible.

I feel very sorry for the Russian figure skaters. All they do is medal. And no athlete is classier than Anna. But their futures internationally are out of their control.

 

[flanker]

For real.

And it looks like she moved to the right country Georgia.

Will Russia have any ladies transfer countries this offseason?

Because of the banking situation and Russian banks being blocked internationally maybe some of the Russian figure skaters should move their training bases to outside Russia where it would be easier to travel internationally. I don't know why these great athletes have not thought of that. Many of the skaters can train in other countries and do zoom meetings with their coaches. Or the coaches can move too. Anna Sasha and the rest don't owe Russia much anymore it's time for them to watch their backs and their futures.

There are many problems around it. Gaining VISA, finance (not just the money but technical side of the international payments). And distand coaching won't give them much. Wihout really changing the allegiance there is mostly not much reason for that, unless you really train with your main coach abroad like Diana and Gleb.

 

[Scott512]

There are many problems around it. Gaining VISA, finance (not just the money but technical side of the international payments). And distand coaching won't give them much. Wihout really changing the allegiance there is mostly not much reason for that, unless you really train with your main coach abroad like Diana and Gleb.

Probably so but they have to think of all options. If training in Russia limits their chances to skate internationally find the training base somewhere else. Of course it is not easy.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

Ok I think to break the Eteri curse you have to be active and competing until 19. No skater has gotten that far yet, under her and still competitive. Medvedeva was 18 at the Olympics and was competitive with the top ladies at that time. Kostornaiia is was also further into being 18 than Anna is now during the Grand Prix circuit so she still as a little ways to go yet. However, in the long term I think that Alexandra will outlast Anna for sure. Sasha keeps getting stronger and physically more developed with each new season.

Sadly, my girl Kosto doesn't count. She left Eteri at her peak and came back to Eteri at her worst.
The "expiration date" never applied to her as she never "expired" under Eteri. Her demise happened AFTER leaving (when she was at her best) and unlike Anna and Trusova she still has not yet recovered at 18. Her trixel is still not fully restored. Her "artistry" is not the same after focussing so much on building stamina and restoring shaky jumps.

She's further in her 18th year but It's a different situation than Anna's who despite being injured and getting pneumonia (covid) still kept her skills and "ultra-c" at 18 years old. She's officially the first successful ultra-c adult [teenage] skater under Eteri to keep her skills intact. Many said she wouldn't even make it to 18 and would break but she proved them wrong. 19? Eh, we'll see. The depth is so deep in Russia I fully understand if she wants to retire before then especially with the current Russian ban and monetary losses.

Aliona sadly lost her stamina and unfortunately kept getting worse and lost her ultra-c even before 18 years old and this was not even due to Eteri. Covid and motivation was her downfall.

The opposite occurred for both injured Anna (now 18 and still competing with skills intact) and even injured Trusova who will be turning 18 in June (with skills/utra-c intact). If Trusova is still competing under Eteri she will be the second successful adult [teenage] skater with ultra-c skills intact to break the so called "Etiri curse" and "expiration date." It's ironic that the two girls who so many people called "jumping robots" and said would not make it are the ones who are currently making it.
If they are both motivated to continue past 19 with the amount of depth in Russia and the ban I will be shocked + very happy since I love them. Hopefully Kosto recovers her skills + thrives under her new coach, and stays motivated there (she said that was one of the reasons her skills regressed with Plushenko and why she came back to team tut). Aliona has so much potential, but needs to be motivated in order to reach that.

Evgenia was 18, but she didn't have any ultra-c so I can't officially count her as a successful adult [teenage] ultra-c skater with skills intact to "break the curse" in this imaginary list.

Will Trusova outlast Anna? You say yes, but they are both strong self-motivated fighters so only time will tell. Anna chooses to take minimal risks but mostly skate clean while Trusova goes all out no matter what the cost. They are polar opposites so I love seeing them compete, and the small friendship that they had. I personally cannot choose one over the other since I favor all three girls. As long as one of them is still competing/skating I am happy. Trusova is currently not competing. Had Russia not been banned internationally I am 99% sure she was going to say "NOO" to worlds after the Horror-olympics (it's her right of course if she needs time to herself, and to put her mental health first). If they both come back next season, we will see

 

[chuckm]

Diana and Gleb may train in the US, but they represent Russia, and therefore can't skate in ISU events. Diana is a US citizen and so they could petition the ISU to allow them to represent the US. Not sure if ISU (or USFS) would go along with this. And even if they did, not sure how they would stack up against US teams like Chock / Bates, Hawayek / Baker, and Green / Parsons.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

Diana and Gleb may train in the US, but they represent Russia, and therefore can't skate in ISU events. Diana is a US citizen and so they could petition the ISU to allow them to represent the US. Not sure if ISU (or USFS) would go along with this. And even if they did, not sure how they would stack up against US teams like Chock / Bates, Hawayek / Baker, and Green / Parsons.

Wouldn't they have to sit out a season or two? Also would Russia release them since they went to the Olympics representing Russia in Dance this year?

 

[Amei]

Wouldn't they have to sit out a season or two? Also would Russia release them since they went to the Olympics representing Russia in Dance this year?

Well the US fed would have to accept them and as delicately as it can be said - why would they, the US is strong in dance and D/S weren't even the undisputed third ranked Russian team, where Russia is fairly weak. Regarding the Russian Fed - if the ISU is going to maintain the ban then the Russian Fed should have no ability to block a transfer to another country, the ISU should be able to overrule them.

 

[Scott512]

Sadly, my girl Kosto doesn't count. She left Eteri at her peak and came back to Eteri at her worst.
The "expiration date" never applied to her as she never "expired" under Eteri. Her demise happened AFTER leaving (when she was at her best) and unlike Anna and Trusova she still has not yet recovered at 18. Her trixel is still not fully restored. Her "artistry" is not the same after focussing so much on building stamina and restoring shaky jumps.

She's further in her 18th year but It's a different situation than Anna's who despite being injured and getting pneumonia (covid) still kept her skills and "ultra-c" at 18 years old. She's officially the first successful ultra-c adult [teenage] skater under Eteri to keep her skills intact. Many said she wouldn't even make it to 18 and would break but she proved them wrong. 19? Eh, we'll see. The depth is so deep in Russia I fully understand if she wants to retire before then especially with the current Russian ban and monetary losses.

Aliona sadly lost her stamina and unfortunately kept getting worse and lost her ultra-c even before 18 years old and this was not even due to Eteri. Covid and motivation was her downfall.

The opposite occurred for both injured Anna (now 18 and still competing with skills intact) and even injured Trusova who will be turning 18 in June (with skills/utra-c intact). If Trusova is still competing under Eteri she will be the second successful adult [teenage] skater with ultra-c skills intact to break the so called "Etiri curse" and "expiration date." It's ironic that the two girls who so many people called "jumping robots" and said would not make it are the ones who are currently making it.
If they are both motivated to continue past 19 with the amount of depth in Russia and the ban I will be shocked + very happy since I love them. Hopefully Kosto recovers her skills + thrives under her new coach, and stays motivated there (she said that was one of the reasons her skills regressed with Plushenko and why she came back to team tut). Aliona has so much potential, but needs to be motivated in order to reach that.

Evgenia was 18, but she didn't have any ultra-c so I can't officially count her as a successful adult [teenage] ultra-c skater with skills intact to "break the curse" in this imaginary list.

Will Trusova outlast Anna? You say yes, but they are both strong self-motivated fighters so only time will tell. Anna chooses to take minimal risks but mostly skate clean while Trusova goes all out no matter what the cost. They are polar opposites so I love seeing them compete, and the small friendship that they had. I personally cannot choose one over the other since I favor all three girls. As long as one of them is still competing/skating I am happy. Trusova is currently not competing. Had Russia not been banned internationally I am 99% sure she was going to say "NOO" to worlds after the Horror-olympics (it's her right of course if she needs time to herself, and to put her mental health first). If they both come back next season, we will see

I think in a normal figure skating world where Russia was not banned currently and the potential for being banned next season for something the skaters have nothing to do with then I think Anna and sasha could skate into their twenties. Sasha is a freak of an athlete. Just incredible how she can handle the punishment of all her training of those ultra jumps. Anna takes less risks is smoother and has the highest level of artistry possible. Like you said they are polar opposites and they are friends or were I guess is what you said. That's too bad. We know one thing and I will roll with the punches And will hopefully continue to handle everything well in her career and life.

I think Sasha and Anna are great and they are survivors and I hope they skate for a few more years competitively.

But I would have hoped if Russia was not banned at the world championships that sawsha would have skated. She had an incredible freestyle at the Olympics it was all time incredible 5 quads with hands over her head. A lot of us understand her frustration and I think she and Anna have a right to be angry with the federation for not putting one of them in the team event free skate.

 

[flanker]

Probably so but they have to think of all options. If training in Russia limits their chances to skate internationally find the training base somewhere else. Of course it is not easy.

The probblem is not as much in where they train, but which colours they represent. Georgians train in Russia but can attend the international competitions. Yes, before the worlds they prepared themselves in Italy, but that was more like the ad hoc solution.

 

[brakes]

Anna trains in Khrustalny since 2013 I believe, so she experienced "Eteri's methods" for like 9 years. If she will finish her career at this moment eventually, it won't be because she physically can't skate anymore, it would be about motivation just like in Alina's case.

Anna trains in Khrustalnyi since 2007.

 

[Scott512]

The probblem is not as much in where they train, but which colours they represent. Georgians train in Russia but can attend the international competitions. Yes, before the worlds they prepared themselves in Italy, but that was more like the ad hoc solution.

Very true. It just seems a little peculiar the skaters that train and live in Russia and we're who were born in Russia get to go to International competitions. It's a good break for them of course. And I do wonder if it will cause some Russian skaters to look for citizenship in another country to make things easier for their careers.

 

[flanker]

Anna trains in Khrustalnyi since 2007.

OK, to be more precise in Eteri's team since 2013.

 

[Amei]

Very true. It just seems a little peculiar the skaters that train and live in Russia and we're who were born in Russia get to go to International competitions. It's a good break for them of course. And I do wonder if it will cause some Russian skaters to look for citizenship in another country to make things easier for their careers.

They only have to be citizens to compete in the Olympics; all other competitions they do not. I wonder if its possible some of the former soviet states with ties to Russia or smaller countries will take Russian athletes with a backdoor agreement that the skater will transfer back to Russia once the ban is rescinded or if the athletes make that agreement with the Russian Fed individually.