2023 Golden Spin of Zagreb: General Info

[lambielfan]

Hey everyone!
Do you know if there really are two rinks in Klizaliste Velesajam? According to the announcement both the competition and the practices will take place there. I searched photos of it but I’m not sure…and the rink doesn’t look imposing, not for a challenger event. Or was it renovated since when the photos on the internet were taken?
I would be grateful for any info

 

[ladyjane]

I understand that due to an earthquake a few years ago the original rink used for Golden Spin cannot be used.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Let's not mention how Skate Canada has missed yet another opportunity to send women who need their TES minimums for home worlds, in case Maddie were unable to attend it... Why host Nationals if only one skater can go

I have given up a long time ago the hopes of seeing Conrad in an international competition in 2023. So that's it for the whining I will be making in this thread

But, you can console yourself that escaping to Ireland means that Carolane and Shane are able to be in action!

If Skate Canada is going to continue to not bother sending skaters to competitions, maybe some more Canadian skaters need to seriously think about whether using family connections to represent a different country would be a better path to take for their careers.

They really are shooting themselves in the foot. Because not giving your skaters assignments has consequences for who you can send to the Senior GP's and the Majors.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Absolutely delighted to see Marilena Kitromilis' name on an entries list. I know I am biased, but I have really missed her. It is just a pity that it is this particular event that she is making her comeback at because, going on past experience, we probably won't be able to watch her. Or anybody else...

And she will be joined by her former sparring partner in the Cypriot Senior Ladies team, Emilea Zingas, who is in the Ice Dance competition with her partner Vadym Kolesnik. And, if I do say so myself, they are probably the favourites.

Sticking with the Ice Dance, it is also good to see India NETTE / Eron WESTWOOD (AUS), entered. Although, I have to admit, I was disappointed that they will not be joined by their Alexandra Palace team-mates Aurelija IPOLITO / Luke RUSSELL (LTU). It is always fun seeing them up against each other, which happened quite frequently last season. But, although not from Ally Pally, there is another London-based partnership in the form of Natalia PALLU-NEVES / Jayin PANESAR (BRA) to provide some local rivalry. And, of course, there is the other Aussie partnership, Holly HARRIS / Jason CHAN.

And speaking of locals, there is my local skater, Dillon JUDGE (IRL), entered in the Men's competition.

Oh, I hope the livescoring at least works...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[saine]

But, you can console yourself that escaping to Ireland means that Carolane and Shane are able to be in action!

If Skate Canada is going to continue to not bother sending skaters to competitions, maybe some more Canadian skaters need to seriously think about whether using family connections to represent a different country would be a better path to take for their careers.

They really are shooting themselves in the foot. Because not giving your skaters assignments has consequences for who you can send to the Senior GP's and the Majors.

CaroLiza_fan

See: Corey Circelli competing at a domestic event in Italy less than a week before the competition for qualifying to Canadian Nationals starts and not having a bye for it.

His appearance on the Anything GOEs livestream today will be very interesting

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Great entry lists for me as a fan of my beloved team Austria. Olga, Maurizio, Sophia/Livio, and maybe we will finally see Giorgia/Luc debut in seniors.
And then there's the Estonians, the Italians, Misha Shaidorov, Polish cactus king Samoilov, and Sadovsky hopefully reunited with his skates and his luggage. Yes, I'm already getting excited for this, even though there probably won't be any streams.

 

[el henry]

I was trying so hard to remember from years past, when Jason was the of Golden Spin, if there was a stream, and I cannot.

Andrew T.

 

[el henry]

And in ice dance, AzuShin and Utana and her new partner

(sorry didn't look at all the entries before my previous post)

 

[Sackie]

With the way Skate Canada is leaving our CAN ladies out in the cold, kind of wish that Maddy has a bad Nationals and ends up off the podium. Not really...but it might teach them a lesson. Cause it won't look good with her going to worlds as # 4 in CAN. And why not send some of our Pairs and Dancers to help them improve their SB results and World rankings.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Deleted

 

[skatingfan4ever]

I'm thrilled Andrew T. is going to Golden Spin. In several disciplines, the competition looks good. I hope somehow there are videos.

 

[Crowdproud]

Aymoz will most likely withdraw as he is most likely going to GPF.
Kimmy is not doing well these days.

good points. there will be opportunities for the Selevko brothers, Jin Boyang, and even Roman Sadovsky, who will be a wild card in the event not having competed this season. they will be helped by the absence of the Japanese skaters.

 

[4everchan]

But, you can console yourself that escaping to Ireland means that Carolane and Shane are able to be in action!

If Skate Canada is going to continue to not bother sending skaters to competitions, maybe some more Canadian skaters need to seriously think about whether using family connections to represent a different country would be a better path to take for their careers.

They really are shooting themselves in the foot. Because not giving your skaters assignments has consequences for who you can send to the Senior GP's and the Majors.

CaroLiza_fan

nope.. not consoled at all...
It is actually extremely sad that Skate Canada is failing all these skaters that they have to switch passports. I mean there is nothing Irish about Carolane.... or anything Austrailian about Jason... Lim and Quan who skated last week... he is Canadian (Chinese ethnicity) born in Iceland so yeah... very very much Korean - not. He speaks perfect French from growing up in Montreal. Skate Canada has this spiel about inclusion and yet, they just let two Asian men from Montreal go represent some other countries.... What kind of message does that send? It's terrible.

And then, Corey Circelli now most likely skating for Italy... Does that mean that I should fear that my son Conrad will represent Poland soon ? Or Roman, Ukraine? I already lost my Edrian... (though in his case, without a 3axel, he may as well be representing another country as he would have never ever gotten out)

How many skaters leaving will it take for Skate Canada to realize that there may be a problem? They let the Duschesnays go back then... so that says a lot about what they have learned or not learned.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

nope.. not consoled at all...
It is actually extremely sad that Skate Canada is failing all these skaters that they have to switch passports.

I do agree there. And good choice of words, because that is exactly what Skate Canada is doing - failing the skaters.

I mean there is nothing Irish about Carolane.... or anything Austrailian about Jason... Lim and Quan who skated last week... he is Canadian (Chinese ethnicity) born in Iceland so yeah... very very much Korean - not.

Hang on. You're confusing the issue here. In all those examples, their partner does have family connections to the country they have switched to. And that is why I support their decisions.

What you are complaining about is an issue for all mixed-nationality partnerships. And that is one of the reasons why I am so strongly against the whole concept of having to represent a country, because one half of the partnership always loses their identity. But that is a completely different issue from what we are discussing here.

By the way, thank you for telling us that Quan Ye is ethnic Chinese. I thought they both had Korean backgrounds.

Skate Canada has this spiel about inclusion and yet, they just let two Asian men from Montreal go represent some other countries.... What kind of message does that send? It's terrible.

Again, you are confusing the issue. This isn't about going against inclusivity drives. This is about doing what is best for the athletes. Skate Canada realise that they can't provide what the athletes need, so they are letting them go somewhere that can. Which I think is pretty good of them. There are other Feds that are not as considerate.

But that does bring us to the heart of the matter. Why can Skate Canada not provide what the athletes need? You keep saying that your taxes go towards it. Well, if other countries' Feds that do not have state funding can support their athletes, how come State Canada is not able to so with the benefit of state funding? It is starting to sound like a really badly run organisation. Which is strange, because it always gave me the impression of being well run. But, then again, many badly run organisations do appear from the outside to be well run. And it is only when it belatedly starts to show on the outside that people realise. So, that may be the case here.

And then, Corey Circelli now most likely skating for Italy... Does that mean that I should fear that my son Conrad will represent Poland soon ? Or Roman, Ukraine? I already lost my Edrian... (though in his case, without a 3axel, he may as well be representing another country as he would have never ever gotten out)

Actually, I would love to see all those happen. Well, except for Corey, because I would much prefer to see him return to the UK than to go to Italy. We need him much more than Italy does!

But, just because Corey is doing a domestic competition in Italy, doesn't mean he is is necessarily going to switch to representing Italy. My youngest kid was entered in a domestic competition in Italy at the end of last season, and she had no intention of switching to Italy. In fact, she had only just switched back to representing Cyprus after a season representing Estonia.

I actually like the idea of the odd international skater entering domestic competitions. It adds a little spice to things. And it helps the domestic skaters, who are used to just competing against each other, get a better gauge of where they are at.

How many skaters leaving will it take for Skate Canada to realize that there may be a problem? They let the Duschesnays go back then... so that says a lot about what they have learned or not learned.

Exactly!

And were it not for how difficult it is to get a Danish passport, I would love to see Laurence and Nikolaj do the same and go back to Denmark, because it was great seeing a small Fed have so much success.

That said, if Skate Canada continue to do things the way they are, it will not be long until they are considered to be a "Small Fed". And that would be the ultimate fall from grace for a country that not too long ago was a real force in all categories.

Skate Canada really need to get their act together and give their skaters the opportunites they deserve if they want to avoid that.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

@CaroLiza_fan

I am not confusing anything I am well aware of your arguments. I am aware that the partners have more or less distant family ties abroad but so do most Canadians unless you are Nathan Lickers, a First Nations member. So where does it end? If I were a skater, I could represent a few nations myself... yet, I am born and raised in Canada The points you make may make sense to you but I cannot agree with them in their whole for various reasons. Lim and Quan btw are both young skaters who grew up in Canada. It's not like Holly and Jason or Laurence and Nik who partnered up internationally, because the fit was there. It's different here, very different.

I stand by what I wrote 100% about inclusion. The message matters here. In appearance, two talented Asian men ice dancer have decided to represent federations with very little ice dancing background, if any. Why? As a skating fan,I can comprehend somehow a few reasons why it makes sense. As a "casual viewer" it can send a bunch of different messages, including negative ones.

And sorry, but you are missing a very important point, Skate Canada is already not having enough money to support their skaters - they cannot even send them to Challengers and Series B, if the elite ones keep leaving, they will have even less money...(our tax money, does contribute to sport but it's a running gag.. sport is very underfunded in Canada) There has been enough talent leaving in the last few years, we don't need more. Why would Skate Canada keep receiving any funding if the skaters leave, especially top talent like Lim and Quan? Sports money is allocated when good results happen. For instance a gold medal in the Olympic team event brought dough to Skate Canada (mentioning it on purpose because I know you dislike the team event ) At WTT last year, Korea outperformed Canada. Their pair skaters and ice dancers are/were products of Skate Canada. (okay, I will give you that Adcock is British but he did represent Canada and develop in Canada) BTW, if someone needs to be sympathetic to country swaps, it should be someone from the UK. How many Peter Beaumont are you guys going to let go? There is another one who just came to Canada Billy Wilson-French who is apparently a huge talent. Doesn't that weaken skating in the UK if the young talented skaters move to a larger skating nation?

ETA I am all for the sport growing in smaller skating countries... but I don't believe the solution is by sending them Canadian and/or American skaters to represent them a few seasons and then buh bye. I don't believe the solution for growing the sport in smaller feds comes by diluting the talent from a larger skating country. There are other ways... for instance having talented ice dancers from all over the world train in big centers like IAM and then, these skaters going back to their home country and coaching. I could see Wang Liu do this in China for instance. But sending Canadian grown talent to represent other countries : in my opinion, it's very unlikely that these skaters like Lim and Quan or Celestino will become coaches in their new passport country. So there is no permanent growth in those smaller feds.

Sorry, I typed this in one go and keep editing it. Your post upset me and got me emotional. I will calm down. We are on polar opposite of our visions of the sport. That's all good I accept that.

 

[lambielfan]

I'm thrilled Andrew T. is going to Golden Spin. In several disciplines, the competition looks good. I hope somehow there are videos.

I was also so over the moon to see him on the list as he is a huge favourite of mine and I’ll go to Zagreb. But in a few hours I found myself falling from heaven to earth as he replied to my message I sent him yesterday he won’t come to Golden Spin, his next event will be Nationals.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

@4everchan - I am so sorry that I upset you. At the end of the day, we both want the same thing - for the skaters to get the opportunities that they deserve. We are just coming at it from different angles.

Don't worry, I know that I am the oddity on this. I have never been able to get my head around why somebody would have strong feelings towards a country or a flag. I know that this is because, being where I am from, I can see where it can lead. And, frankly, I don't like what I see.

That is why I always place more importance on family and heritage than on where you happened to be born. And why I feel that sportspeople should be representing their coaching team rather than representing a country.

Anyway, I didn't realise that you were actually having a jibe at your government with your comments about taxes, and that sport in Canada in general was experiencing funding issues. That would certainly explain a lot about why Skate Canada are not giving the skaters the support they deserve. And I can relate on that - practically everything in NI that gets state funding is having to make massive cutbacks at the moment due to insufficient money being allocated.

In a way, if you look it purely from a purely financial point of view, I can see what the people allocating the funding to sports are getting at. "You don't have as many top athletes, so you don't need as much money". That is the same approach that the British government takes, with funding only going to those sports where the athletes are most likely to win. But, from a sporting point of view, that is totally the wrong way to look at things. You need funding to develop top athletes and grow the sport.

I know you are not interested in motorsport, but the effects of the different approaches are clear to see in it. In Formula 1, when the promoter is dividing the money up amongst the teams at the end of the season, it is done based on results. So, the top teams get the most money, and the bottom teams get the least money. And, as a result, the top teams, who are mostly factory teams with manufacturer support and lots of sponsors, have more money to spend on making their cars even better, and so stay at the top. Meanwhile the bottom teams, who are mostly independent teams without manufacturer support and with fewer sponsors, do not have enough money to improve their cars enough, and so stay at the bottom. And, in many cases, struggle to even survive.

In MotoGP, the Championship promoters take a different approach. Most of the funding goes to the independent teams, which helps them improve. The factory teams get less money from the promoters, because they are getting lots of money from elsewhere. It helps to level the playing field. And the success of this approach is shown by the fact that, for the first time ever, an independent team won the Team's Championship this season. And we are going into the final round of the season this week with an independent team rider and a factory team rider fighting for the Rider's Championship title.

I wish this approach was taken in most sports. Where the money goes to those that most need it, rather than those that are already at the top. But, before you can do that, there needs to be money in the first place.

I have been critical in the past about the number of British Ice Dancers that are now representing Canada. But, knowing how little funding that ice skating gets in the UK, I could undertand it. Let's face it, training with top coaches in Canada (or anywhere!) is not cheap, so if your partner's Fed is offering to help more than your Fed, you can see why they would switch. But, the other side is that there is a bigger pool of competition in Canada, so there is less chance of getting international assignments.

But now that I hear that Skate Canada isn't getting as much funding as I thought, and they aren't sending skaters on as many international assignments as a result, it does make you wonder whether they would be better coming back to representing the UK. Having, for example, Lilah / Lewis, Nadiia / Peter, and Molly / Dmitre on the team would certainly bring the results that would attract more funding.

And on that note, don't forget that Lilah is Canadian. So, although the traffic is mostly in one direction (westward), it can go the other way (eastward). And it's a good job it did because if it wasn't for the results of Lilah and Lewis, British Ice Skating wouldn't be getting what little funding it does get. (Not that the Fear family needs any help when it comes to money. But the other skaters in the team do).

It is sad that there is not enough money in the sport to be able to give everybody the opportunities they deserve. But, to get money in, the sport needs to become more popular. And to become more popular, it needs to be easier for the general public to access.

Which brings us back to the issue of broadcasting. Every event needs to broadcast, be it on TV, online, or preferrably both. The sport is not going to get new fans, and maintain existing fans, if they are not going to be able to watch it. Skate Canada is good at this, but the ISU is not.

And there is no use in having a series of events if nobody is able to follow what is happening at the final event of that series. So, the Golden Spin really need to get their act together and make sure that they have livestreaming and livescoring this year.

Sorry for this being such a long off topic post. I wasn't intending on writing anywhere near this much, but what @4everchan said about the funding in Canada started me thinking, and I got carried away exploring those thoughts.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[skatingfan4ever]

I was also so over the moon to see him on the list as he is a huge favourite of mine and I’ll go to Zagreb. But in a few hours I found myself falling from heaven to earth as he replied to my message I sent him yesterday he won’t come to Golden Spin, his next event will be Nationals.

Interesting.

 

[4everchan]

@CaroLiza_fan
1) thanks for your post
2) the country/flag is not a question of pride for me but a question of funding... if it weren't important then even less funding would be given by the gvt.
3) i had no idea that lilah is Canadian. Doesn't make me like their Rocky FD more though

 

[Crowdproud]

Apparently, Golden Spin did not have a livestream last year, so it's not looking good for a stream this year. They should follow Warsaw Cup's example which not only had a free livestream, but a knowledgeable commentator as well.

Oh well. This is a bummer because there will be interesting matchups this year.