2023 Skate America Free Dance | Page 19 | Golden Skate

2023 Skate America Free Dance

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
There is something about this French team that I’ve never connected with… feels like they tend to throw away gestures or something. I don’t know exactly what it is but I never enjoy their programs.
Same here. Boring, or even painful, as during that Piaf FD last season.

Dupayage/Nabais are for me THE French team of the season so far (as they were last year, though they were criminally undermarked at the Worlds).
 

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
This made me so annoyed. He really doesn’t know what he is talking about at all - it ruined part of the performance for me cause I was sure it wasn’t a mistake but then I slightly panicked cause I wanted LaLa do to do well. He needs to just keep his mouth shut during the performances!
I think he is a good, knowledgeable commentator. At least he doesn't yack constantly during performances, pointing out every element as if it's a 'figure skating for dummies' exercise. Belinda Noonan does that and it drives me nuts! And his voice is pleasant, unlike some other commentators.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I think he is a good, knowledgeable commentator. At least he doesn't yack constantly during performances, pointing out every element as if it's a 'figure skating for dummies' exercise. Belinda Noonan does that and it drives me nuts! And his voice is pleasant, unlike some other commentators.
Chris is the perfect hype man for figure skating. But I feel he just lacks understanding in ice dance (and sometimes free skating as well). He needs somebody who is experienced in ID alongside him. It was clear most of the people in live chat didn't understand ice dance rules, GOE system, elements etc. And a lot of people pronouncing incorrect things as correct in the live chat too, as even the "experts" there didn't really understand the scoring system difference to free skating.
 

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Chris is the perfect hype man for figure skating. But I feel he just lacks understanding in ice dance (and sometimes free skating as well). He needs somebody who is experienced in ID alongside him. It was clear most of the people in live chat didn't understand ice dance rules, GOE system, elements etc. And a lot of people pronouncing incorrect things as correct in the live chat too, as even the "experts" there didn't really understand the scoring system difference to free skating.
Ah OK I didn't look at the live chat. I certainly agree that it would be a good idea to have someone to commentate alongside him. Although I like his commentary, I do not always agree with him. Mark Hanretty might be a good choice to co-commentate.
 

throw_triple_flip

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 7, 2023
Country
United-Kingdom
Now watching the free dance and the Koreans have made me properly cry, their perofrmance was so beautiful. And I'm really not a cry-er!

What I like about them is that in terms of performance quality, there's an equality. She's so strong that they could easily have the Chock /Bates dynamic with the guy fading into the background.. but he's so emotive as well.

I've seen it at other competitons and wasn't sure about the chroeography (particularly at the beginning).. but they sold it here.
 

Andrina

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 26, 2023
Chock/Bates. I was extremely sceptical when the music was announced. But when they were getting into that starting pose, my jaw was already slowly dropping. I couldn't get enough of this danse. They are not great skaters, they don't have the speed of Tashler or Brown siblings but they use their strongest suits up to a perfection. They dance. And they get my full attention for all the duration.

Honestly, I'd give them the world gold already now. For bringing in new choreography. For being themselves and not copying anyone. For innovating themselves with every season. Just bravo.
 

throw_triple_flip

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 7, 2023
Country
United-Kingdom
I'm not sure about these lyrical/delicate pieces of music for Lajoie and Lagha. I find it a bit of a mismatch, almost like they skate through it maybe?

If I was unaware what music they were using and I watched that Free Dance for the first time with the sound on mute, I would think they were using a compeletely different sort of music.


I mean, it's clearly working for them in terms of the result here. But could they get better scores with a different approach?
 

throw_triple_flip

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 7, 2023
Country
United-Kingdom
Chock and Bates went out of their comfort zone in terms of the music but in terms of facial expression/general ice presence i find it very similar to previous years. I don't think it's thematically appropriate with the music and found it jarring in some places.
 

labgoat

On special assignment for work, see you in August
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
I, too, noticed the straight-line lift — I was actually kind of scared for Maddie. And a couple of the other lifts looked uncharacteristically laboured.
They took a pretty bad fall at the end of practice on a rotational lift with Madi falling horizontally down hitting her head and Evan straining his back. I'm sure they were a bit stiff and sore and were probably skating a bit slower and carefully just to be safe. There are more details in the practice thread.
 

muptgirl

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
They took a pretty bad fall at the end of practice on a rotational lift with Madi falling horizontally down hitting her head and Evan straining his back. I'm sure they were a bit stiff and sore and were probably skating a bit slower and carefully just to be safe. There are more details in the practice thread.
Also noticed Evan had a large bandage on knuckles of one of his hands, guessing they both got a little beat up by that fall. Really amazing how they rebounded. While slower than I've seen them later on in seasons - the layers of detail are already there. I get that they aren't everyone's cup of tea and there is always bashing of them on here it seems - but I really was impressed with them and thought they stood out far ahead of other teams.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
It looks like they were perhaps going to do a transitional move into the spin. They missed the push/lift of that transitional move but then were able to start their dance spin without a problem. They are lucky because they could have lost the dance spin altogether if they had missed the entrance into it. I am saying this without having seen them perform at another event. Maybe someone else can tell us what they are supposed to do.
This is where some commentary, ahem, would have been helpful....
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Chock and Bates went out of their comfort zone in terms of the music but in terms of facial expression/general ice presence i find it very similar to previous years. I don't think it's thematically appropriate with the music and found it jarring in some places.
I found the music itself and program concept good, I just didn't feel it was a balanced program skating wise. Often Evan was on two feet and Madi was in the air, there was less skating skills displayed, and a noticeable lack of speed throughout. Although looking at almost all the teams this season, I think that's the style the judges are starting to reward more over display of SS (perhaps trying to appeal to general public).
That being said, on the other end of the spectrum were the super powerful skaters who lacked the same level of musicality and awareness. I'd still have LaLa and French ahead on the virtue of pure SS value over CB (and in my opinion higher element quality), but other couples also lacked particular features, so I won't say CB are alone in having areas of big weakness. Their program compositionaly played to their strengths quite well.


I think if G/F skated back to back with their FD vs CB, it would highlight more of the technical weaknesses, because as great as LaLa are, their turn technique isn't as consistently precise as the Italians. A lot of teams are stronger than chock/bates in certain areas, but G/F are one of the few teams I'd say are stronger in all of the areas (except outward projection - but their new FD and even controversially disliked RD I think they have bridged the gap here imo). Whether the scores will show this is another question.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
I saw some programs and thank you for the comments, it was interesting to read.

I would like to come back to Madison’s accident. I am glad that couple was OK enough to compete.

ISU has documents about Medical Team - https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...ort-1/memorandum/21610-isu-medical-guide/file

For all practices at the competition/main rink there must be a minimum of two (2) medical personnel at rinkside and one (1) in the medical room, one of whom must be a Physician.
At the practice rink there must be two (2) medical personnel at rink side, one of whom must be a physician, if the practice rink is not located in the same building as the competition rink.

At page 12 there is Concussion Recognition Protocol.


In Madison’s case she was lying on the ice for more than 20 seconds, if Evan wouldn’t help her to stand up, it would be much longer.

I do believe that Medical Team seeing that skater is lying on the ice, not moving, they should immediately enter the ice and go to injured skater. Doctor should check skater and decide whether skater 1) can be helped to get up or whether 2) medical stretcher and fixation of neck should be used with fast transport into hospital for other examinations (to exclude intracranial hematoma, fracture of vertebrae…). Those things above probably shouldn’t be decided by skater’s partner.

Now try to imagine a little bit different situation…skater can fall from lift exit / jump / step because she / he suddenly loses consciousness – there can be many reasons – drop of blook pressure, hypoglycemia, arrhythmia, heart attack, epilepsy...those acute conditions must be solved immediately. Every second matters. In case of certain arrhythmia you need defibrillator, if skater stops breathing you immediately have to start cardiopulmonary resuscitation. And we have skater lying on the ice, not moving....10 seconds, 20 seconds...and the only one who cares is her / his partner. And realise that from behind the board you absolutely cannot see whether skater is breathing and speaking / reacting. Prolonged hypoglycemia leads to brain damage, late start of resuscitation leads to brain damage...

I do realise that such non traumatic cases are rare. But once it happens it is necessary to be ready to react. And rely on the skaters themselves to decide that the situation is serious and (instead of being in shock) start shouting: “Bring defibrilator!” – I don’t take this like the best possible approach.

I do believe that coaches and partners know health state of each other. In case of Montreal coaching team they probably have a notebook...I no way believe that they remember health state and allergy of all of their students.

BUT does Medical Team at competitions has some idea whether any skaters are in higher risk? Having diabetes, epilepsy, allergy at some drug? Probably not. But it could help with differential diagnosis. Some people have allergy on pain killers or muscle relaxers – those drugs can be used by medical stuff for first aid in case of acute pain. Usually an injured skater is in shock so giving information about his anamnesis or allergies is probably the last thing he / she will be doing at the moment.

It would be good to rethink what is the fastest way how Medical Team could be informed about skater’s anamnesis, if it is not done yet. And rethink that Medical Team should enter the ice immediately seeing that skater is not moving.
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
Honestly, I'd give them the world gold already now. For bringing in new choreography. For being themselves and not copying anyone. For innovating themselves with every season. Just bravo.
This is a really unfair thing to say to all the other ice dance teams. Should they all just give up and call it a day for the rest of this season then?

You're essentially saying that what Chock/Bates did at previous competitions in this season and previous seasons matters more than whatever they do on the day at Worlds. A world medal is not a lifetime achievement award. May the best team win in Montreal next spring.
 

muptgirl

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
This is a really unfair thing to say to all the other ice dance teams. Should they all just give up and call it a day for the rest of this season then?

You're essentially saying that what Chock/Bates did at previous competitions in this season and previous seasons matters more than whatever they do on the day at Worlds. A world medal is not a lifetime achievement award. May the best team win in Montreal next spring.
I don't think that's really what was meant. I interpret it more as a strong piece of material that should set them up for a gold at world's assuming that they perform the best on that day.
 

IceDancingQueen

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
I think he is a good, knowledgeable commentator. At least he doesn't yack constantly during performances, pointing out every element as if it's a 'figure skating for dummies' exercise. Belinda Noonan does that and it drives me nuts! And his voice is pleasant, unlike some other commentators.
He used to comment on the Eurosport feed so I think I’m just over him cause he has literally been saying the SAME four or five phrases for like 10 years now. But I understand why other people like him as at least he isn’t mean and he also doesn’t yap as much as others throughout the performances. But after listening to Mark Henretty comment on ice dance it just really sticks out to me when the commentators clearly have no idea what they are talking about in comparison.
 

Andrina

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 26, 2023
I don't think that's really what was meant. I interpret it more as a strong piece of material that should set them up for a gold at world's assuming that they perform the best on that day.
Thank you. This is exactly what I meant.

I haven't seen Piper and Paul yet, so perhaps their dances are even more innovative and trend-setting. But from what has been shown so far, C/B seem to have the strongest, the most sophisticated and also the most coherent with their abilities material.

As for the other dance teams, they should certainly not give up as there are still silver and bronze medal in play 🤷‍♂️

I'd also like to say a few words about L/L. I love this team and I've been following them for years. But I find that they deserve better programs. Those that will put their wild nature, crazy speed, and good technical base in light. Their FD seems too sterile for their sparkling personalities.
 

throw_triple_flip

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 7, 2023
Country
United-Kingdom
I'd also like to say a few words about L/L. I love this team and I've been following them for years. But I find that they deserve better programs. Those that will put their wild nature, crazy speed, and good technical base in light. Their FD seems too sterile for their sparkling personalities.
I agree. Their style of skating just doesn't gel with that music.

Sure, the most dominant team of the last Olympic quad were very succesful with the lyrical style. But not because of it. I think Lajoie and Lagha need to develop their own style.
 
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sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Katerina & Daniel – ice coverage in the First set of Twizzles is almost third of ice surface, in Second Set almost third of ice surface, in the Third Set around one fifth of ice surface, that is great. I think Free dance is more polished than Rhythm Dance.

Daniel has ballet presentation on good level in my opinion, in my understanding he is prince for the most of the dance, at the end he transforms into Rothbart…in Katerina’s case it is more complicated…her posture improved, there are still head forward moments here and there. For me her presentation contains three parts – 1) ballet like swan arms, 2) just swan arms (usually those very dynamic / dramatic / wild arm movements, because you don’t see such intensity and strength in female ballet dancers), 3) ballroom arms – during Step Sequence and since spin to One Foot Turns Sequence she is completely missing any swan like movements. In my opinion it changes the story line. Which is not wrong, it only changes original story.

Caroline & Michael – the dance is interesting, but subjectively it didn’t catch my attention. I don’t understand what it means…?

Evgenia & Geoffrey – for first two thirds of free dance I saw Gabriella & Guillaume’s dance style and I didn‘t like it. Gabriella & Guillaume had unique presentation, in some of their dances they were league of their own, they are unrepeateble. For the next 15 years I prefer not to see any couple doing THEIR style. The third part of Evgenia & Geoffrey’s dance was a little bit different, a little bit less expressive for me with some imperfections, but more about this young couple.

I think that Evgenia & Geoffrey are good quality couple and they are improving, so I do believe they can develop their own style. Their style (in my opinion) is less romantic than in case of G & G, but a little bit more dramatic and extraordinary. I can definitely see them in Fifth Element Soundtrack, Blues For Narada, Cool from West Side Story, Shostakovich’s Waltz No. 2.

Natalie & Filip – wonderful presentation of the dance, they are giving it ALL and their ALL in presentation is so strong. Thanks to knowing their father’s story I also have tears in eyes. But even when I put story aside and feel how they express the music, the presentation is equally strong.

The way Natalie enters combination lift is very effortless…position of Filip’s head in the Rotational Lift is not making me happy but what I can do.

I have one criticism and it is lack of dance and close holds. They are definitely top 5 European couples. In terms of presentation and Skating Skills (NOT levels) they are even European top 2 for me. But being top level couple overall I think they need to create dances with dance holds and skating closer to each other.

There are people who doesn’t like their style and I will not argue with them, but I don’t believe that there is a single one person who can say that Taschlers are missing engagement, commitment and involvement in their Free Dance (which is defenition of Presentation score). I would wish judges to award Taschler‘s skills in high enough Presentation score despite lower Levels and despite lower Composition score thanks to open holds.

Madison & Evan – I visually like program till Choreographic Assisted Jump Movement, there are so many creative movements reminding me watches and time. I also don’t see the dance yet. It is visually creative and kind of magic program, but program, not dance.

They looked slow and Evan looked tired at the end. For me they are confirming that it is better to compete at Challenger Series to get used to new programs before entering Grand Prix. The programs are more polished and couples less tired if they do.

Marjorie & Zachary – when I saw their Free Dance for the first time I thought that it is similar to last year’s one. I rewatched and I have to say that it is a great dance. In comparison with French dancers they have their unique style. I would wish them to improve Skating Skills, for me they are still rather average technicians. But dance was beautiful and touching in some way. I am courious to see how much will dance grow during season.
 
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