2024 JGP Riga Cup Men's Free Skate

[CrazyKittenLady]

 

[TallyT]

I'm not big into junior skaters, but I remember Anthony from Canadian Nationals, so I thought I'd check in on him today to see how he's developed.

I don't understand the hype. He's at an age where he should be honing his technical talents if he's going to be a force in the future. A little more of that, and a little less pretentious drama, please.

The first time I saw him, he was so fresh and cool, but I think here, next to other skaters of similar age, the glitter just wore off. Kinda like Las Vegas in bight morning light. You can just see the fake better and the glide doesn't save it.

"Pretentious drama" aka "stuff I don't like so how dare other people like and appreciate for themselves." At least it's a complete program, unlike the rash of "let's throw together a heap of tiktok moments and pretend it's artistic because quads!!!" or the callow beautypagent mugging of the latest parade of nameless and utterly replaceable Russian girls. Very few skaters manage both sides - and none of the ones I see either of you praising do it - so this level of cheap snidery only hurts the sport (and it's clear who fastforwarded through the 'hearts' promos about respect and support).

 

[4everchan]

Re Anthony.

It's bound to happen when a skater is trying to upgrade his/her content that there will be jump issues. The focus to acquire a triple axel can mess up with the timing of the double for instance. Stabilizing a 3lz-3t can also create a lot of timing issues. Let alone the time spent on training the new jumps which means that there is less time for the rest.
Also, what is the problem with a skater getting the points they can get : Anthony's care for choreographic content and special moves (like the unique variation on his cantilever) will reward him. Why say, " I am not going to do anything about this program because I should be aiming for better jumps... " Seriously ?

Let the boy be. If he doesn't improve his consistency, he can join other great skaters who do show skating for a living and he will be a sensational hit.

And finally, please let's not belittle him : he has technical elements that are better than anyone else like his spins for instance... his choreo sequence... his steps.... Those are TES elements. He also landed a triple lutz-triple toe in his LP. It's not like he absolutely has no jumps. He popped his 3a.... and had issues on the flip. The rest is not that bad... sure, he didn't have stamina for his last combo... but he fought hard.

I look for balanced skaters. Anthony is still a junior skater and I'd give him a couple seasons more before making such harsh comments. BTW : there are a few seasoned senior men with good results without a quad... so why not wait before crucifying him ?

I say this and I am definitely not a huge fan of make-up and nail polish and dramatic style of performing... Come on, I am the fan of two skaters well-known for wearing HnM outfits (Chen and Chan) and staying very pure in their interpretations... but you gotta give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar... Anthony is different, and this is why we watch the sport... If there were 32 Ilia Malinins on the circuit.. we would ALL be bored.

 

[labgoat]

Re Anthony.

It's bound to happen when a skater is trying to upgrade his/her content that there will be jump issues. The focus to acquire a triple axel can mess up with the timing of the double for instance. Stabilizing a 3lz-3t can also create a lot of timing issues. Let alone the time spent on training the new jumps which means that there is less time for the rest.
Also, what is the problem with a skater getting the points they can get : Anthony's care for choreographic content and special moves (like the unique variation on his cantilever) will reward him. Why say, " I am not going to do anything about this program because I should be aiming for better jumps... " Seriously ?

Let the boy be. If he doesn't improve his consistency, he can join other great skaters who do show skating for a living and he will be a sensational hit.

And finally, please let's not belittle him : he has technical elements that are better than anyone else like his spins for instance... his choreo sequence... his steps.... Those are TES elements. He also landed a triple lutz-triple toe in his LP. It's not like he absolutely has no jumps. He popped his 3a.... and had issues on the flip. The rest is not that bad... sure, he didn't have stamina for his last combo... but he fought hard.

I look for balanced skaters. Anthony is still a junior skater and I'd give him a couple seasons more before making such harsh comments. BTW : there are a few seasoned senior men with good results without a quad... so why not wait before crucifying him ?

I say this and I am definitely not a huge fan of make-up and nail polish and dramatic style of performing... Come on, I am the fan of two skaters well-known for wearing HnM outfits (Chen and Chan) and staying very pure in their interpretations... but you gotta give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar... Anthony is different, and this is why we watch the sport... If there were 32 Ilia Malinins on the circuit.. we would ALL be bored.

I am still in Anthony's camp. He is interesting and creative and I love that. It sounds from his own comments as if a small fire has been lit in his heart for the technical side and I look forward to improvements as he becomes a more balanced skater. In some ways he reminds me of Shawn Sawyer - like Shawn slow and steady may help him achieve his goals. All I know is that I want to continue watching his story unfold. Go Anthony!

 

[Skating Bobr]

I support this, but can we also keep this mind when the technical skaters aren't as artistic? I've noticed there's this double standard when it comes to people criticizing technical skaters for lack of PCs (e.g. "he's a good jumper, but kinda boring to watch") and no one gets called out for making such demeaning comments. The technical skaters know that their PCs aren't at the level of Paradis, they know they need to work on them, but as Ted said, at the junior level, skaters have to pick what they prioritize, jumps or PCs. Some skaters are naturally athletic so they like to jump and focus on that first. Others, like Paradis are artistically inclined and develop that first. Let's show love to both.

Also, I don't think this applies to this forum, but I lurk on skating Twitter as well and I noticed that Paradis gets significant attention from the skating community on there, even more than the boys who made it on the podium, and I don't know how healthy/unhealthy for self-esteem that favouritism is for him and other skaters. These are teenage boys after all and are in a mentally vulnerable time period and I find that many skating fans do forget that. I wish everyone was conscious of that at all times, but the world doesn't work that way, so I really hope the skaters avoid forums and Twitter lol

 

[FlossieH]

I think it is also worth remembering that it has taken time for Anthony Paradis to regain his jumps post injury. A slow and steady rebuild (as he has been doing) is better than pushing the technical elements too far and re-injuring. His long-term health is more important than instant technical success.

 

[4everchan]

I think it is also worth remembering that it has taken time for Anthony Paradis to regain his jumps post injury. A slow and steady rebuild (as he has been doing) is better than pushing the technical elements too far and re-injuring. His long-term health is more important than instant technical success.

and furthermore, his training buddy, Eddy Vasiil has also had an injury and took a full year off to rebuild. Yvan is being careful with his junior skaters and I appreciate this very much. He does have experience considering he helped Nic Nadeau come back from a very major ankle injury. So, there is no rush.

And yes... not just skater but anyone should avoid twitter. I am not on it.. and i am glad for it

 

[4everchan]

I support this, but can we also keep this mind when the technical skaters aren't as artistic? I've noticed there's this double standard when it comes to people criticizing technical skaters for lack of PCs (e.g. "he's a good jumper, but kinda boring to watch") and no one gets called out for making such demeaning comments. The technical skaters know that their PCs aren't at the level of Paradis, they know they need to work on them, but as Ted said, at the junior level, skaters have to pick what they prioritize, jumps or PCs. Some skaters are naturally athletic so they like to jump and focus on that first. Others, like Paradis are artistically inclined and develop that first. Let's show love to both.

Also, I don't think this applies to this forum, but I lurk on skating Twitter as well and I noticed that Paradis gets significant attention from the skating community on there, even more than the boys who made it on the podium, and I don't know how healthy/unhealthy for self-esteem that favouritism is for him and other skaters. These are teenage boys after all and are in a mentally vulnerable time period and I find that many skating fans do forget that. I wish everyone was conscious of that at all times, but the world doesn't work that way, so I really hope the skaters avoid forums and Twitter lol

I agree with all of this, especially at the junior level. Later on, though, I think the "he's got the jump but needs to work on the rest" becomes less offensive to me simply because at the senior level, with quads in the SP and so much focus on jumps, the quadsters are indeed favoured heavily compared to the PCS skaters. So i am all for being patient with the younglings who do not perform at a high level and are focused on jumping during junior years. A senior skater though, should be aiming to be very balanced. The reality is that a skater like Anthony would not earn tech minimums to participate in major competitions as a senior so we won't even see him likely competing at that level UNLESS he gets well rounded... which is not the case the other way around... A strong technician can at least get his minimum scores.

 

[Jeanie19]

I support this, but can we also keep this mind when the technical skaters aren't as artistic? I've noticed there's this double standard when it comes to people criticizing technical skaters for lack of PCs (e.g. "he's a good jumper, but kinda boring to watch") and no one gets called out for making such demeaning comments. The technical skaters know that their PCs aren't at the level of Paradis, they know they need to work on them, but as Ted said, at the junior level, skaters have to pick what they prioritize, jumps or PCs. Some skaters are naturally athletic so they like to jump and focus on that first. Others, like Paradis are artistically inclined and develop that first. Let's show love to both.

Also, I don't think this applies to this forum, but I lurk on skating Twitter as well and I noticed that Paradis gets significant attention from the skating community on there, even more than the boys who made it on the podium, and I don't know how healthy/unhealthy for self-esteem that favouritism is for him and other skaters. These are teenage boys after all and are in a mentally vulnerable time period and I find that many skating fans do forget that. I wish everyone was conscious of that at all times, but the world doesn't work that way, so I really hope the skaters avoid forums and Twitter lol

Welcome to Golden Skate. Post often.

 

[el henry]

I support this, but can we also keep this mind when the technical skaters aren't as artistic? I've noticed there's this double standard when it comes to people criticizing technical skaters for lack of PCs (e.g. "he's a good jumper, but kinda boring to watch") and no one gets called out for making such demeaning comments. The technical skaters know that their PCs aren't at the level of Paradis, they know they need to work on them, but as Ted said, at the junior level, skaters have to pick what they prioritize, jumps or PCs. Some skaters are naturally athletic so they like to jump and focus on that first. Others, like Paradis are artistically inclined and develop that first. Let's show love to both.

Also, I don't think this applies to this forum, but I lurk on skating Twitter as well and I noticed that Paradis gets significant attention from the skating community on there, even more than the boys who made it on the podium, and I don't know how healthy/unhealthy for self-esteem that favouritism is for him and other skaters. These are teenage boys after all and are in a mentally vulnerable time period and I find that many skating fans do forget that. I wish everyone was conscious of that at all times, but the world doesn't work that way, so I really hope the skaters avoid forums and Twitter lol

Welcome to Goldenskate!

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with the term "favoritism"

I adore Anthony. I would rather watch his skates than skaters who have made the podium. That is not demeaning to other skaters, that is my opinion based on what I value and I would like to watch. The judges and scoring system may disagree with me, but that doesn't change my opinion.

I have seen no evidence that Anthony is not working on his jumps simply because he is becoming a fan favorite. Senior skaters who I follow closely, (OK one skater in particular )who have been unable to master jumps despite nonstop work, have still received (IMO well deserved) praise and appreciation for their non jump elements. And dedicated fans like me. It hasn't stopped their desire to master jumps, but it has supported them when they cannot.

The skaters know what they need to do and every single one is working on it. But if a skater whose strength lies somewhere other than jumps does not make podiums but can take comfort knowing they have vocal fans who love their strengths, then I am glad to contribute to that.

 

[Skating Bobr]

I agree with all of this, especially at the junior level. Later on, though, I think the "he's got the jump but needs to work on the rest" becomes less offensive to me simply because at the senior level, with quads in the SP and so much focus on jumps, the quadsters are indeed favoured heavily compared to the PCS skaters. So i am all for being patient with the younglings who do not perform at a high level and are focused on jumping during junior years. A senior skater though, should be aiming to be very balanced. The reality is that a skater like Anthony would not earn tech minimums to participate in major competitions as a senior so we won't even see him likely competing at that level UNLESS he gets well rounded... which is not the case the other way around... A strong technician can at least get his minimum scores.

100%
I used to skate and I remember that I preferred jumps when I was a junior. Now that I am older and retired, I got more mature and developed an appreciation for the artistic aspects of programs, something I didn't have when I was a junior. In my case, that came with age, so yes, by the time the younglings get to the senior level, I expect a well rounded program with TES and PCS being pretty level. Just reflecting on Senior Men last year, Selevko the Elder's (sorry, I forgot his first name!) short program stands out to me even though he only had one quad, as does Adam Sao Him Fa's redemption free skate at World's (Benoit created a masterpiece). Also Malinin's free skate stands out cause it was clean and largely cause I really love Succession and the soundtrack, so I was vibing, but I digress.

Oh, I totally forgot about tech minimums for seniors (is it now easier or harder to get them compared to last year?) cause Paradis still has some time before he ages out, unless I'm mistaken. Also for juniors, they are just getting international experience so everything is still new to them, whereas seniors have more competitions under their belt so our expectations are different. I used to train with some international level junior skaters and I remember how sensitive they got when they read online comments, for some its additional motivation, for others, it was quite debilitating. In addition, I think for seniors its easier to multi task between focussing on being emotionally present during the choreography and then switching to getting a jump or spin done because you should have a strong technical foundation by that point and should require less active thinking/focussing. So, I'm pretty impressed that Paradis can be so artistic and do a triple lutz triple toe after that, cause it does take a lot of mental effort to switch focus so quickly. I know I couldn't delegate my focus as effectively at his age.

 

[Skating Bobr]

Welcome to Goldenskate!

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with the term "favoritism"

I adore Anthony. I would rather watch his skates than skaters who have made the podium. That is not demeaning to other skaters, that is my opinion based on what I value and I would like to watch. The judges and scoring system may disagree with me, but that doesn't change my opinion.

I have seen no evidence that Anthony is not working on his jumps simply because he is becoming a fan favorite. Senior skaters who I follow closely, (OK one skater in particular )who have been unable to master jumps despite nonstop work, have still received (IMO well deserved) praise and appreciation for their non jump elements. And dedicated fans like me. It hasn't stopped their desire to master jumps, but it has supported them when they cannot.

The skaters know what they need to do and every single one is working on it. But if a skater whose strength lies somewhere other than jumps does not make podiums but can take comfort knowing they have vocal fans who love their strengths, then I am glad to contribute to that.

If having dedicated fans was as harmless as you say it was, I would have zero problems with it. My main issue with what I call favoritism, is that it has an impact on the judging that happens in National Championships of a number of skating federations. And that causes scandals on occasion. I am a very merit oriented person, so I give credit where credit is due and it does bother me when skaters are under or over scored. I've watched skating for over a decade and I've noticed that there is a positive correlation between level of fanbase and scores (exception being Yuzuru Hanyu cause he deserves the overwhelming amount of love that he gets). I say this as someone who trained with some skaters who were technically really good and imo underscored and didn't really have any fanbase, so I've seen how fanbases can be toxic for those without them, cause they felt like they didn't have public support and that no one wanted to see them skate since no one posted videos of them or talked about them. That's why I try to be as objective as possible considering this is a very subjective sport and have only joined now even though I've been on this forum for a while now

 

[saine]

Oh, I totally forgot about tech minimums for seniors (is it now easier or harder to get them compared to last year?) cause Paradis still has some time before he ages out, unless I'm mistaken.

I think the senior minimums for Senior Men for Worlds will be harder to get without a triple axel. None of the Senior Men gained the minimums for Worlds with the move to CTES, unlike the Senior Women. Seven men lost the minimums with the move. He'll definitely need to get the 3A if he wants a chance at a Senior international, so I'm interested in watching how he does with it at as the season progresses.

 

[el henry]

If having dedicated fans was as harmless as you say it was, I would have zero problems with it. My main issue with what I call favoritism, is that it has an impact on the judging that happens in National Championships of a number of skating federations. And that causes scandals on occasion. I am a very merit oriented person, so I give credit where credit is due and it does bother me when skaters are under or over scored. I've watched skating for over a decade and I've noticed that there is a positive correlation between level of fanbase and scores (exception being Yuzuru Hanyu cause he deserves the overwhelming amount of love that he gets). I say this as someone who trained with some skaters who were technically really good and imo underscored and didn't really have any fanbase, so I've seen how fanbases can be toxic for those without them, cause they felt like they didn't have public support and that no one wanted to see them skate since no one posted videos of them or talked about them. That's why I try to be as objective as possible considering this is a very subjective sport and have only joined now even though I've been on this forum for a while now

Well, I have been a skating fan, although never a skater, for some 50 years now, and I cannot say I have seen what you have seen.

Indeed, in the case of my favorite skater (why be coy, Jason Brown) far from being overscored, I believe that he is underscored for what he brings to the ice. Particularly at Nats. Only in 2015 and last year did I see any indication of "high" scores, and he certainly has never been a USFS favorite. So having a devoted fanbase there has been little or no help.

Yet I have never seen Jason's fanbase (or Christopher Bowman's fanbase or Robert Wagenhoffer's fanbase or Toller Cranston's fanbase, to name some of my past faves) be so toxic that it affected other skaters. In fact, I have not seen toxicity at all from those fanbases, just love for the skater involved.. Toller himself tended to the sarcastic and the arch, but back in pre-internet days, I had no idea. And of course Toller's gifts were hugely overlooked by the scoring of the time and the emphasis on the "tech" of the time. (figures).

Now of course I am talking as a whole, of people I know either online or IRL, not internet trolls who may or may not be bots.

I become very disappointed when I see the "quad bonus" in PCS applied to skaters who IMO should not be as close to a skater like Jason in PCS, but it's not the skaters' fault, and I always try to direct my ire to the judges.

To return to this comp, I think the judging was fair, I hope Anthony can develop the jumps he needs just to qualify for senior comps. IMO, it would be a shame if we were deprived of his gifts at that stage because he cannot.

ETA: And I do hope that skaters avoid online criticism that is not measured, and read any criticism through the lens of "I know what I am doing". But by the same token, do not read comments about other skaters, or become envious of those who they perceived are "loved.". Fandom isn't "fair", it isn't dependent solely on results, and never has been in any sport ever.

 

[TallyT]

I think favouritism, either from TPTB/judges or from the number of fans and therefor exposure a skater gets (the two are definitely not the same, being driven by different non-objective... stuff, and you can pretty much always tell which skaters are politically 'in' and 'out') has always, will always, be there. Jason and his popular appeal and wonderful skating skills has been mentioned, on the other side (waaaaaay over) there is Sasha Trusova and her quads, she was and is a massive fan favourite eclipsing pretty much all of her teammates (I vaguely recall saying with a few golds under her belt she could be the next Kwan/Yuna/Yuzu superstar, shows how crap I am at predictions folks).

Anthony got high marks for the artistic and skating-skill-driven aspects of his performance, as he definitely should (he also, though only 15 remember!, comes over as more mature as many of the others even those several years older than him), and an increasing number of people find him wonderful to watch but it's still not a massive number yet. And at the minute though, his technical lapses keep him back, I think he knows it and will work on it - but hey, no bad thing to lean on his strengths while he does! - just as others who are great at the jumps but still tentative in the artistry and musicality will work on that (as Malinin says he is doing).

 

[TallyT]

it does bother me when skaters are under or over scored

I think, to be fair even to people who see the sport in with glasses a completely different rose-colour to me, we all are bothered by them. We may not agree on which skaters and which scores, but the arguments up and down are proof. It sounds like you have personal knowledge and experience I can't even pretend to, and I'd love to hear more from people like you when you feel the urge to post

I've seen how fanbases can be toxic for those without them, cause they felt like they didn't have public support and that no one wanted to see them skate since no one posted videos of them or talked about them.

That is sad... it's not a huge sport, and given no one (not even the ISU and feds and god knows they try!) can make fans choose to love this or that skater, this or that performance, this or that anything. and I can see how it would be demoralising

 

[gsk8]

 

[gsk8]

 

[gsk8]

 

[gsk8]