2024 Worlds: Pairs' thoughts and comments

[Mathman]

Math - was there some reason you left out Brandon Frazier and Alexa Scimeca?

Np, no reason at all. They were great.

By he way, I just noticed that the U.S pair of Karol Kennedy and Peter Kennedy also won a world championship (1950), as well as four world silvers and the1952 Olympic silver.

 

[4everchan]

Moore-Towers/Marino did not have worse lifts at their best and the SBS jumps were hardly the only better thing. Their throws were better, their SBS spin was better, their speed was better, their edges were better on the whole, they skated closer together, they had better transitions, and more cohesion as a pair. Deanne/Max are better on the Triple Twist, but that's it.

Having seen both teams live a few times, nobody will make me ever believe that MTM have good lifts. They were OKAY at best. Max and Deanna have fabulous lifts, creative and unlike any other team. She likes being in the air and always looks good doing so. Their throws (MTM) were good but in that realm, Deanna and Max are pretty close to MTM and both teams are not as good as the best throwers in the game. The unison on DSD's SBS spin at worlds was flawless. Look at the score card if you don't believe me. I also find it a bit weird that there is no mention of DSD's creativity in lifts, in programs, in pushing the death spiral difficulties etc... Also, yes, the twist is a huge game changer, especially in the pairs short program.. and having seen a live crashy twist from MTM, was enough for me. Once in a lifetime experience that I don't wish it on anyone. I liked MTM a lot, especially Moore-Towers, but they were very cookie cutter. Kirsten is an absolute star (Deanna is a star too, perhaps even brighter !) but their material was never very interesting. As a matter of fact, I have a hard time remembering any of their programs and they only retired a few years ago.

I also find it a bit weird to compare 2024 to late 2010s... rules have changed a lot. I was never a fan of James/Cipres... so I will pass on commenting on these two. The kiss and cry shenanigans was a huge turn off for me and that was enough...

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I'm not interested in moving the goalpost on the definition of "the level has dropped across the board". I've clearly been talking about the top level of pairs competition and for me this past season was one of the weakest ever.

You do know that "across the board" actually in fact by definition means "applying to all" or "happening or having an effect on people at every level and in every area"? I'm not moving the goalpost, you are.

That's your own personal problem. The work exists on its own and should be judged as such. How you want to feel about Elvis himself is something else, or for example a scientist who discovers the cure for cancer and also happens to be a supporter of Putin. The notes of the music and the molecules of the medicine will always remain what they are, regardless of what you feel about a separate entity. And you of course would choose to be cured of cancer, regardless of disliking the person who invented the cure.

Interesting how you chose to equate medicine necessary for survival to entertainment. Sane people, people who have never in their life hurt anyone, would kill to ensure their own survival or that of their loved ones. No sane person would kill for entertainment, and yes that's actually exactly what figure skating, music, art, etc. are - Entertainment. They cannot be equated in any way shape or form.
Apart from that, there will not ever be one scientist who discovers the cure for cancer, because cancer is not one disease but an umbrella term for many diseases that could not be more varied in cause, symptoms and response to treatment. The only thing they have in common is that the cell cycle control is in some way disturbed, but how, why and what is very different in each individual case?

As for the actual incident involving Cipres, the teenager in the case said they initiated the sexting themself and did not want to press any charges and did not feel like anything wrong happened; they also gladly kept the picture. What would you be saying if another teenager was the one who sent a picture, as happens millions of times per day in the world? Legally, all of these youngsters who are even just keeping sexts on their devices from other youngsters are breaking the law, but that's not logical. As for asking "what if it was me", before 13 years old I was more than curious and actively seeking out "mature" material, as were other kids around me. It's human nature and it's only gotten more overt in recent decades with technology. Anyway, the more important point is how wrong it is for you to use the word "predator", as if Cipres was hanging around school yards and trying to lure young people into illicit activities, or worse. That's a gross mischaracterization of what should be viewed as a misdemeanor in my opinion.

Cipres knew that she was 13 and chose to respond to her with multiple sexual pictures and texts. This is very much textbook behaviour for predators, if you like it or not. He was also not charged for having her picture on his phone, but for sending her his pictures - Which is definitely not a misdemeanor but a literal crime.
I really don't care who initiated the conversation (not that we actually know that for sure, considering there have also been allegations of him acting inappropriately towards young girls in training), but as a 26-year-old, a grown adult, Cipres had both the legal and moral obligation to not engage in it. It is incredibly easy to simply block somebody on IG, and inform their parents about their unsafe internet practices - Easy as that. Certainly much easier than taking and sending pictures of yourself, and writing sexual texts.

Either way, this is completely off-topic, and honestly, this thread has served its purpose at this point.

 

[labgoat]

The only truly outstanding pairs skaters that the U.S. ever produced were Tai Babilonia and Randy Gardner (altho we have had some good ones, such as Kitty and Peter Carruthers, Ina and Zimmerman -- though I liked Ina with Jason Dungeon better,

Several other pairs were missed - Carol & Peter Kennedy, Nancy & Ron Ludington, Vivian & Ron Joseph, Cynthia & Ronald Kauffman, JoJo Starbuck & Ken Shelley, Jill Watson & Peter Oppegard, Jenni Meno & Todd Sand who were all world medalists.