2024 Worlds: Pairs' thoughts and comments

[gsk8]

Stellato-Dudek and Deschamps golden in Montreal

2024 World Figure Skating Championships: Pairs Deanna Stellato-Dudek and Maxime Deschamps of Canada claimed the Pairs gold on home ice in Montreal on Thursday night in what was an exciting […]

www.goldenskate.com

I have to say this is one of the most exciting Pairs' event we've had in a while the scores after the short were so close! There were lots of "gasps" and "oohs and ahs" in this one!

Note on Miura and Kihara: Coach Bruno Marcotte spoke to the press about his team as they were unable to attend the press conference.

“They were extremely proud of their performance,” he said. “After their performance. Ryuichi started to cough. He hyperventilated, had low sugar and was dizzy. He tried to stand up a couple of times but couldn’t keep his balance. The medical team took care of him and gave him some fluids. When I just saw him, he started feeling a lot better. He felt bad to not go and do his duties (attend the ceremony), but he also felt very bad that he couldn’t go congratulate Deanna and Max. So, I want to congratulate them on behalf of Riku and Ryiuchi.”

What are your thoughts?

 

[rain]

This was an incredible pairs event, with tremendous depth demonstrated throughout the field.

Deanna and Max were amazing and deserving winners and delivered under tremendous pressure. They've made history, and it was a triumph.

The Japanese team surprised me with the level they've managed to regain after missing virtually the entire season. Can someone get them some better programs though? Their material always seems so weird and such a mismatch with their general demeanour.

Hase/Volodin have the most classic pairs look I've seen in a long time. They also need material to make them stand out. It's understandable that they didn't this season, with them being so new, but next season I'd like to see more interesting choreography and some more personality.

 

[Anna K.]

The audience greeting Miura/Kihara when they stepped on ice to challenge Canadians for gold

After so many counts of toxic fandom online I've been left thinking where the real figure skating fandom was hiding. Now I know where: in Montreal

 

[TontoK]

Hase/Volodin have the most classic pairs look I've seen in a long time. They also need material to make them stand out. It's understandable that they didn't this season, with them being so new, but next season I'd like to see more interesting choreography and some more personality.

I haven't followed European pairs very much this season, so they were fresh for me. I was very impressed.

The top end of this event was spectacular. The best pairs competition I've seen in a long time. Many memorable moments.

 

[4everchan]

The audience greeting Miura/Kihara when they stepped on ice to challenge Canadians for gold

After so many counts of toxic fandom online I've been left thinking where the real figure skating fandom was hiding. Now I know where: in Montreal

Canadians are true lovers of figure skating. We are also famous for being "that nice". Thanks for this comment. It makes my day! I hope we will be as kind if Piper and Paul do not win... (and of course, we will be). and I realize I am over generalizing

 

[TontoK]

The US pairs program needs some sort of overhaul.

I just gave the protocols a hard look.

Three US pairs. 1 jump and 1 throw in the SP. 2 jump passes and 2 throws in the LP.

Grand total of these 18 elements with positive GOE: 3

Ellie and Danny: SP jumps
Emily and Spencer: SP jumps
Valentina and Max: LP throw

Overall success rate: 17%. And that's not defining success as "great element!" It's defining success as "not negative." I didn't count the outright falls, but you all saw the same competition as I did.

I know that jumps and throws aren't all there is to pair skating, but they're important. And with the rest of the world is managing them, we end up with all three of our best teams out of the Top 10. And deservedly so.

So, I'm standing by for comments about Emily and Spencer's injury issues (and I do cut them some slack) and Danny's partnering skills (and I freely acknowledge them), and Val and Max's connection (which I see, too).

But the math speaks for itself. Unless our pairs find a way with high impact elements, we're going to continue to languish in the lower-middle pack, fingers crossed to keep two spots. Speaking of which... how would this event have suffered if only two US pairs were there? Or even just one?

 

[4everchan]

@TontoK : I think that the US program needs to make partnerships that are closer in age and taking stronger single skaters. It seems to me that the focus is still on big lifts and thus, making partnerships with great height differences. It may help on some elements but in the end, it does make it harder on SBS jumps. At this point in the pairs's discipline game, every single element counts. All teams are more or less doing the same tricks... So a fall is very costly, especially in the LP. Regarding spots, USA will have two next year and building back up to 3 may take a little while, so if that's annoying for the athletes, it may give them more motivation. There are also a bunch of new partnerships in the USA that will be in the fight for Boston worlds. US Nationals will be a blood bath in pairs next year.

 

[TontoK]

@TontoK : I think that the US program needs to make partnerships that are closer in age and taking stronger single skaters. It seems to me that the focus is still on big lifts and thus, making partnerships with great height differences. It may help on some elements but in the end, it does make it harder on SBS jumps. At this point in the pairs's discipline game, every single element counts. All teams are more or less doing the same tricks... So a fall is very costly, especially in the LP. Regarding spots, USA will have two next year and building back up to 3 may take a little while, so if that's annoying for the athletes, it may give them more motivation. There are also a bunch of new partnerships in the USA that will be in the fight for Boston worlds. US Nationals will be a blood bath in pairs next year.

I appreciate what you're saying, but we've all heard "just wait til next year" too many times.

We lucked out with Alexa and Brandon giving us a season or two of glory, but other than that, the highlights have been few and far between for about 50 years.

I think the talent is there, but something isn't, and I don't know what that might be. But tinkering around with whatever we've always done isn't going to cut it. Something drastic needs to change, and it's been needed for a long time.

 

[Arriba627]

The audience greeting Miura/Kihara when they stepped on ice to challenge Canadians for gold

After so many counts of toxic fandom online I've been left thinking where the real figure skating fandom was hiding. Now I know where: in Montreal

It has been a very encouraging and supportive audience at all competitions. I have been hoping that it is coming across on tv and online.

 

[4everchan]

I appreciate what you're saying, but we've all heard "just wait til next year" too many times.

We lucked out with Alexa and Brandon giving us a season or two of glory, but other than that, the highlights have been few and far between for about 50 years.

I think the talent is there, but something isn't, and I don't know what that might be. But tinkering around with whatever we've always done isn't going to cut it. Something drastic needs to change, and it's been needed for a long time.

That's why I propose building teams that are closer in age, with strong single skaters that are interested in doing pairs long term together I think that's not what they are doing right now... and stop with the musical chairs you know ? I agree that pairs has been the weakest discipline for the USA at least, for as long as I lived

 

[mrrice]

I will admit that I didn't watch the pair. I wasn't expecting the US to medal but...... Yikes, it appears things did not go well for them

 

[skylark]

Speaking of which... how would this event have suffered if only two US pairs were there? Or even just one?

You may as well ask, how would this event have suffered if Peng/Wang weren't there? Or Laurin/Ethier? Or Danilova/Tsiba? Their final placements were 16th, 15th, and 14th. And the US pairs, lest we forget, came in 11th, 12th, and 13th.

My answer to your questions and mine are the same: This event would have suffered ... A lot ... without those 6 teams. Cheng Peng has charmed me since her early days with Yang Jin. She and her new partner, Lei Wang, are working out challenges that come with a fairly new partnership. You might compare them with Kam/O'Shea. K/O have been skating together longer, but Peng and Wang each have many, many years of pairs skating under their belts. Wang skated pairs since 2007-8; Peng since 2012-13.

The team from Netherlands, Danilova/Tsiba, gave one of the most rousing performances of the FS. Skating clean and beautifully, performing better than some may have expected.

As for Laurin/Ethier, they are simply adorable and very accomplished. This is their first Worlds. Do you question why Canada needed to send 3 pairs, just because L/E came in 15th?

Figure skating isn't just about the numbers; it isn't just about the elements, or the wins/placements. In my humble opinion.

Emily and Spencer were 5th at 2023 World championships. Fifth!! I'm not going to disregard them. Even more importantly to me, they have gorgeous performance ability, having as their priority expression, connecting with their music and with the audiences, showing their love for skating. Many fans value those qualities. I want to keep seeing them skate, and let them shine at Worlds.

Ellie and Danny have great lifts, great programs, and the ability to shine through them. Plus, their throws are progressing. And Ellie's landing of the SBS jumps improved significantly this year, lest we forget. They have great potential.

Valentina and Maximilian earned their spot at this worlds, fair and square. At times, Valentina reminds me of Katia Gordeeva, in that she looks ethereal, like she can see heaven from those heights that Max gets her to. Max is a great lifter and you can see he loves skating.

All 3 pairs, but especially Emily & Spencer, showed such valiance. And if you look at a figure skating competition through the lens of what special qualities each pair expresses and possesses -- not just the Americans, but all the skaters -- there's so much to enjoy about them all.

Rant over. Apologize if my strong feelings caused offense; you can see I'm passionate about this.

 

[skylark]

We lucked out with Alexa and Brandon giving us a season or two of glory, but other than that, the highlights have been few and far between for about 50 years.

The way I see it, we didn't luck out with Alexa and Brandon. US skating and fans kept faith with Alexa and Chris, and with Haven and Brandon, for many years. I think that the lessons learned, the mistakes made, the passion for skating that saw them through, all had a place in their development as a team. Maybe even their longevity. Who knows, if they'd both ditched their former partners five years earlier and teamed up then, whether they would have the same results.

 

[TontoK]

@skylark I appreciate your passion.

I just want more. I've wanted more for a long time.

I don't judge the character of these skaters - that's impossible for me since I don't know them. But I can evaluate the results.

This wasn't pretty for US pairs, and there's really no way to dress that up.

But, hey, I'm sure it will all be better next year.

 

[ladyjane]

I missed out on the SP (which, according to what I read about it, was fantastic) but the FS was great too, even at the lower levels. Wonderful to see Ioulia's smile again, even if there were some mistakes. The partnership is new, lots of time to improve. I thought Daria and Michel were great, and not only because I'm Dutch and I loved the music, but that did also play a part of course. I thought Emily and Spencer did quite well after being out of the picture for a long time due to injury. Lei Wang charmed me when he reached out his hand when Cheng Peng fell against the boarding (I do hope this partnership gets the time to develop further), I was thrilled to see a Finnish pair doing the FS. I always enjoy seeing Ellie and Danny - his smile, her beautiful skating, having problems with throws or not. Both German pairs did well, I was pleased to see the Japanese back on track (even if there were some problems afterwards of which I hope they will not be longlasting), I loved all three Canadian pairs, but Deanna and Max especially - so joyful for them. I like watching Valentina and Maximliano (pleased for them they were here), the Italians (still two top 10 finishes), the Australians....I can go on.

The best bit to me was the audience. Sure, they were clapping loudest for Canadians (and that's where we were after all), but all skaters were applauded when doing well, encouraged and supported if there were mistakes, and the crowds were very knowledgable about the skating too. The kind of audience I adore. Just great.

 

[gsk8]

The Canadian audience is FANTASTIC!!!!

 

[moonvine]

@TontoK : I think that the US program needs to make partnerships that are closer in age and taking stronger single skaters. It seems to me that the focus is still on big lifts and thus, making partnerships with great height differences. It may help on some elements but in the end, it does make it harder on SBS jumps. At this point in the pairs's discipline game, every single element counts. All teams are more or less doing the same tricks... So a fall is very costly, especially in the LP. Regarding spots, USA will have two next year and building back up to 3 may take a little while, so if that's annoying for the athletes, it may give them more motivation. There are also a bunch of new partnerships in the USA that will be in the fight for Boston worlds. US Nationals will be a blood bath in pairs next year.

“The US Program” doesn’t make partnerships that I’m aware of. AFAIK the pairs make themselves. They get envelope money based on performance and Valentina got the $25,000 Mabel Fairbanks Award money.

I think part (most?) of the problem is that if I am a young skater and want to give pairs a try, I better hope I live near Todd and Jenni, Colorado Springs, Norwood, or now Illinois. Dance is very popular and a rink can usually be found close by where one can give dance a try. Pairs is not as easy.

There are lots of things to be taken into account when forming a pair - height, living in the same location (or willing to move), experience and a bunch more. I don’t think age to not squick people out should even be a fleeting thought.

As far as staying together, I wish this also. But there’s one having a growth spurt, someone getting injured, someone wants to go to college and the other doesn’t…

I hope Ellie and Timmy can skate seniors next year but I fear it is the year after.

 

[4everchan]

“The US Program” doesn’t make partnerships that I’m aware of. AFAIK the pairs make themselves. They get envelope money based on performance and Valentina got the $25,000 Mabel Fairbanks Award money.

I have no idea how the USFED deals with their skaters. There are Pairs "made" in Canada. Strongly suggested by coaches etc.. it's not just based on Hi ? What's your name? Wanna do pairs ?

I think part (most?) of the problem is that if I am a young skater and want to give pairs a try, I better hope I live near Todd and Jenni, Colorado Springs, Norwood, or now Illinois. Dance is very popular and a rink can usually be found close by where one can give dance a try.

Do you think it's easy in Canada ? Have you ever heard about pairs coming from let's say, Vancouver or Halifax? If you want to do pairs, you better be in Oakville or Montreal.

Pairs is not as easy.

There are lots of things to be taken into account when forming a pair - height, living in the same location (or willing to move), experience and a bunch more. I don’t think age to not squick people out should even be a fleeting thought.

As far as staying together, I wish this also. But there’s one having a growth spurt, someone getting injured, someone wants to go to college and the other doesn’t…

growth spurt : less of a factor if pairs "grow together" rather than having a grown up picking up a girl who hasn't gone yet through puberty. Same with education... If the pairs are closer in age, it may be easier to manage education for both partners.

I hope Ellie and Timmy can skate seniors next year but I fear it is the year after.

I am going to be candid here : Who are Ellie and Timmy ? Yes... I have heard of them.. But as far as the skating world is concerned, they are too old for juniors and too young for seniors... so they don't really exist for us, international fans right? DId they compete this year at US Nationals ? junior or senior ?

 

[2sk8]

I have no idea how the USFED deals with their skaters. There are Pairs "made" in Canada. Strongly suggested by coaches etc.. it's not just based on Hi ? What's your name? Wanna do pairs

USFS does the same at higher levels- strongly recommend to skate with X and sometimes so far as to say you will move to train with Y. Others may disagree but I do not think what we just saw should be considered successful for USFS in this discipline, and that is not against any of these individual skaters. Deanna being in Canada says a lot though.
I noted in another thread- the event and US pairs season ought to be a huge wake up call for their whole approach to the discipline- from how teams are formed, to their training location non-choices, to the politicking and selection process, to those making those decisions and those rubber stamping them, etc. But, having a very real understanding of what goes on, I am under no illusions much will change.

 

[Skating91]

USFS does the same at higher levels- strongly recommend to skate with X and sometimes so far as to say you will move to train with Y. Others may disagree but I do not think what we just saw should be considered successful for USFS in this discipline, and that is not against any of these individual skaters. Deanna being in Canada says a lot though.
I noted in another thread- the event and US pairs season ought to be a huge wake up call for their whole approach to the discipline- from how teams are formed, to their training location non-choices, to the politicking and selection process, to those making those decisions and those rubber stamping them, etc. But, having a very real understanding of what goes on, I am under no illusions much will change.

USFS strategy seems to be undermine age rules by having younger children compete with adults.

While the USFS aim to put 16 year olds in adult comps presumably to improve USFS's chances, Canada just won with a 40 year old.

Well done Canada!