Replay Lounge 2025 GP Finlandia Trophy

[Mathman]

I remember this very well. But I recall it as being about Drobriazko/Vanagas (representing Lithuania) as part of the controversy and less with Denkova/Stavitsky, but the Israeli certainly were part of it!

Corrected, thanks.

 

[sisinka]

I do not understand this at all. Doesn't the skater's coaching team submit the music that they want played? How can some "application" decide, no, we don't e\want to play the music that you submitted, we will play something else instead?

If there are the tracks with the same title - old version and new version and system is programmed to take tracks based on names....which track will be chosen? New one or old one?

If you listen to music from Spotify for example, it is application choosing songs (based on programmed criterias).

 

[sisinka]

Does anyone remember the protest at -- was it 2002 Worlds? -- when the Israeli team of Chait and Sakhnovski was placed above Lithuanians Drobiazko and Vanagas? The issue was that Galit Chait's father had just been elected President of the Israeli Skating Federation and was widely believed to have -- um -- considerable influence in ISU circles and friendship with -- um.-- federation heads of certain other countries.

As I recall, the skaters themselves got up a petition about it, but nothing came of it. The petitioners were accused of anti-semitism.

I remember this version as well.

I also remember Lithunian Federation making protest at 2002 Olympics. Because dancers finishing at 3rd and 4th place had a fall in the Free Program while M. Drobiazko & P. Vanagas were clean, but finished at 5th place.

 

[sisinka]

Our friends at Anything Goes have published quite an interesting article about the judging, especially the Technical panel, at the ID event. The ISU is going to look into it:

Finlandia Trophy is over; the ice dance controversy is not - Anything GOEs

The ISU will be reviewing the ice dance event from Finlandia Trophy after skaters object to tech panel decisions

anythinggoe.com

I would like to see the result of this investigation.

I do not expect they will find anything what would allow to make some sanctions.
Yes, one couple was probably judged more kindly by Technical panel, but I suppose that "camera angle" and "it looked quite OK from normal speed" can explain it very nicely.

I have experience that Technical panel never puts down what is indeed executed correctly. Which means that I suppose that all those Level 1 were thanks to not met requirements seen by Technical panel in normal speed or slow motion.

Still there is the difference between:
1. It looks "OK" or "so so" and Technical panel let it go not putting too much attention to details.
2. Technical panel takes time and review more elements LOOKING FOR some imperfection which would allow to put down the level or give "!"...

Since the beginning of new judging system multiple couples were judged harshly comparing to others. It happened sometimes only...or quite often.

It was around 2014 when during one competition two couples from different country (I believe they even skated in the same warm-up group) made the same mistake - not fixed position in layback spin for 3 turns - one couple stayed with Level 4, the other got Level 2.

One couple competing at different competitions having trouble to keep 3 seconds in lady's difficult position during Lift - it was less than 3 seconds. At one competition it was no problem - Level 4, at another competition Level 2.

Two years back two Czech couples got "!" for too big distance from each other in Choreographic Character Step Sequence. It happened at Skate America 2023. One week later at Skate Canada 2023 E. Pate & L. Bye did the same mistake, but Technical panel overlooked it.



If you are one of those couples who are "hunted" by Technical panel, it is for sure different level of stress, much higher level of stress. Because you know that "somehow around 45 degrees" is not enough, you have to be REALLY CLEARLY OVER 45 degrees to not allow Technical panel to put level down.
For example...elbow below shoulders? Even at Skate Canada 2025 during Twizzles in Rhythm Dance Piper had one elbow VISIBLY below shoulder in the first Set, in the second Set her free leg position was sometimes "around" 45 degrees, NOT CLEARLY ABOVE. Even Paul had one elbow a little bit below shoulder. Technical panel didn't mind it, both got Level 4.

So, while some couples are getting high levels because their positions are "around", "probably", "I hope so" with requirements....other couples must be CLEARLY fullfiling those requirements, because Technical panel will go after them with reviewing elements with slow motion.

I am not angry at those "chosen ones" whose sport life is more easy comparing to other couples.
But I would like them to realise that it is a BIG GIFT from Technical panel. And I would like to see top couples to take their power... not only for protecting themselves when such strictness happens to them (let's say once in past 6 years)...I somehow expect them to protect other couples as well, who doesn't have such possibilities to speak loudly. Maybe not today...maybe in future, who knows.

 

[sisinka]

CHOREOGRAPHIC RHYTHM SEQUENCE of G. Cizeron & L. Fournier - Beaudry

This is interesting and surprising thing to see.

Let's look on it more closely, as it is a great example of rules which can be readed "differently" from case to case.

1. The minimum requirements for calling Choreographic Rhythm Sequence is: "Both partners perform steps around the short axis and must proceed from barrier to barrier". In Communication No. 2704 is written that: "The requirement for barrier to barrier is fulfilled when at least one of the partners is not more than 2 meters from each barrier."

2. Communication No. 2716:
"!" is applied when:
...both of the partners are more than 2 meters from one of the barriers
... partners are not in contact more than once
... distance between partners during the permitted separation is more than 2 arms length ....

It means that rules are saying that you can identify Choreographic Rhythm Sequence ONLY WHEN ONE PARTNER IS NOT MORE THAN 2 METERS FROM EACH BARRIER.
BUT...rules are also saying that Choreographic Rhythm Sequence can be identified with "!" when BOTH PARTNERS ARE MORE THAN 2 METERS FROM ONE OF BARRIERS.

This is contradictory.
One partner cannot be less then two meters from each barrier (for minimum to get element counted) AND more than 2 meters from one of the barriers in the same moment to get "!".

So it looks like the main thing for calling the element is choreography going on short axis. And let's take a look how many Choreographic Rhythm Sequences we would get then...



O. Smart & T. Dieck after Pattern Dance Type Steps, P. Gilles & P. Poirier before and after Pattern Dance Type Steps, Y. Orihara & J. Pirinen before Pattern Dance Type Steps.

I don't agree with such calling by Technical panel, but once again they didn't cross the rules in my opinion. Despite the fact it doesn't give sense to decide like they did.

My personal advice for all ice dance couples. Don't do anything on short axis until your Choreographic Rhythm Sequence is done.

 

[ManyCairns]

The issue I associate with Staviski is the fatal car crash he caused while driving drunk, well over the blood alcohol limit, and shortly after being pulled over and cited by the police,

Anyway, all these concerns are reminding me of how much controversy there is and always has been around skating. And most/every judged endeavor, I'm sure.

 

[Mathman]

The issue I associate with Staviski is the fatal car crash he caused while driving drunk, well over the blood alcohol limit, and shortly after being pulled over and cited by the police.

Yeah, that tragic event ended Staviski's career and sent him to jail, in a case that had several appeals and reversals. It was unrelated to the sport of ice dancing, however.

 

[Mathman]

That's so pretty. How can anyone not like this sport, scoring controversies and all.