Skipping Europeans VS 4CC | Golden Skate

Skipping Europeans VS 4CC

Giselle

Medalist
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
I feel that skipping 4CC to prepare/focus on Worlds is widely accepted whereas skipping Europeans is still very much frowned upon and I don't really understand why :scratch2: .

I know that some people feel Europeans is more prestigious than 4CC because 4CC is a "new" competition but it now exists for 17 years!

I've also heard lack of competition but on paper all of the disciplines at 4CC are more competitive than at Europeans IMO, even Ice Dance (Pairs might be a toss-up if we factor K/S and S/K being at Euros).

Travel also comes up often when 4CC is held outside of North America but during the GP series skaters also have to travel to different continents in a short time and there isn't that much complain.

What do you think could improve the "attendance" at 4CC?
 
I feel that skipping 4CC to prepare/focus on Worlds is widely accepted whereas skipping Europeans is still very much frowned upon and I don't really understand why :scratch2: .

I know that some people feel Europeans is more prestigious than 4CC because 4CC is a "new" competition but it now exists for 17 years!

I've also heard lack of competition but on paper all of the disciplines at 4CC are more competitive than at Europeans IMO, even Ice Dance (Pairs might be a toss-up if we factor K/S and S/K being at Euros).

Travel also comes up often when 4CC is held outside of North America but during the GP series skaters also have to travel to different continents in a short time and there isn't that much complain.

What do you think could improve the "attendance" at 4CC?

Maybe it's just the other side, some people feel 4CC is less prestigious than Europeans, and they don't feel the need to go, and skip it. The travel, it could be a reason, but I'm not totally sure. Many European skaters train in Canada or North America, and ALL of them take part in the Europeans, even the year of Olimpics:scratch2: So dunno, for improving the attendance, maybe give more advertising to the competition? But looks quite difficult whereas the Feds don't take an interest in it:confused2:
 
The date doesn't help either. Some feel like there's not enough time to recover and prepare for Worlds, but moving it to be earlier would be too close to Nationals... :no:
 
4CC is very close to US Nationals in comparison to let's say, Japanese Nationals which is in December. I think that's why a lot of US skaters miss 4CC. Also, lately 4CC has been located in Asian countries, where the time zone might be hard to adjust to in a short period of time if a skater is coming from North America. It's too bad that there can't be much done about it, since scheduling 4CC later on would probably be too close to worlds, and it could already scheduled too soon for US Nationals.
 
I'm not sure if it is still the case, but some Euro countries have used EC's as the final selection for their World Team. They send three skaters to EC, only two of whom earn a trip to Worlds. That might be a factor.
 
Time and location of Europe to Europe skaters are more convenient than 4CC to NA skaters.
 
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I agree with many of you posters. 1. For whatever reason 4CCs is not as prestigious as Euros. I looked this up and Euros use to be like a mini worlds when everyone could compete. It is much richer and longer in tradition than 4CCs which was kind of made up for non euro countries 2. Dates the European nations have nationals much earlier for the most part than NA and therefore or well euros are in January with much more time to rest and lead up to worlds whereas Canada and the US nats are later and 4ccs are later. 4. Travel yes there are top euro skaters training in the NA but there is far less in general time zon e issues and trave and of course more time to recoop for worlds 5. Euros are often used to select or part of the selection process for many teams 6. 4ccs for whatever reason people feel they can skip it; it is not uncommon especially during an Olympic year that the top podium finishers from a nationals will all skip 4ccs there is no real penalty for most part 7. skating is more popular in Europe and there are top notch skaters all cross the continent whereas 4ccs is rather concerntrated ladies US and Japan and sometimes Canada; pairs Canada and China and sometimes US, men has the most diverse. Ice dance - Canada and US..
 
High level athletes from all disciplines compete in different parts of the worlds and they ALL adjust to the time zone. Hence, I think the distance and the time to recover are just an excuse. For instance, there have been two Alpine skiing World Cup weekends in Asia now (South Korea and Japan) and the next weekend the World Cup will be back in Europe, yet no one is skipping competitions because of the time change.
I agree with the fact that 4CC is not as prestigious as Euros. Think about this aspect: there are Europeas in every sport but not Four continents. People who don't follow figure skating might just ask: "what are those Four Continents?".The title itself sounds weird because we tend to think about a continental championship and then a world championship. The risk of failure and to lose their momentum going into worlds is much more than the actual reward of a Four Continents title. Plus, North American nationals are very late in comparison to the rest of the planet and athletes train to peak there, not at 4CC. Do we consider Polina Edmunds a better skater because she won last year? Probably not.
The only solution I see is to create two separate championships: Asian and North American (or Pan American). In the end, the rest of the planet isn't really producing enough high level skaters to justify the presence of a continental championship.
 
I get that flying to another continent/time zone before Worlds is not ideal but IMHO it's not as impossible as some people make it sound or else we would not have the GP events so close to each other.

4CC ends on February 21 and Worlds doesn't start until March 28, that's more than a whole month later...

Russian Nationals is late December/beginning of January usually and European is late January but Russian skaters don't skip Europeans for no reason.

Sinitsina/Katsalapov train in the US and had to fly to Russia in late december for Nationals then to Bratislava in late January and I'm sure skipping Europeans never crossed their mind.
 
As long as people accept it when skaters skip 4CC as being a normal thing to do, then it will continue to be skipped.

THIS! Fans should make it clear that they do not accept people skipping 4CC, that they consider 4CC to be a Championship event that you really should turn up for!

People are saying it's acceptable that Adam would skip it to focus on Worlds - I wonder how many of those same people were advocating for Nathan to do Junior Worlds (in Europe) and Senior Worlds (in the US) only nine days apart?

As far as timezones go...PAH! Suck it up, buttercup! SOME skaters from some countries have no choice but to do that turnaround MULTIPLE times a season!
 
Maybe the 4CC competition should be held immediately or soon after the Europeans? In that case the skaters could have more preparation time for Worlds. If the only reason for current schedule is US Nationals, maybe something should be done about that event to shorten it? The intermediate, juvenile and novice competitions could be held in some other time and have only junior and senior competitions in US Nationals.
 
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Maybe the 4CC competition should be held immediately or soon after the Europeans? In that case the skaters could have more preparation time for Worlds. If the only reason for current schedule is US Nationals, maybe something should be done about that event to shorten it? The intermediate, juvenile and novice competitions could be held in some other time and have only junior and senior competitions in US Nationals.

But the US skaters aren't the only ones skipping (and this year US Nats and Canadian Nats were on the same week). Hanyu's not going and Japanese Nationals were held in the last week of December!
 
Between all the people that have posted so far, I think we have managed to hit pretty much every reason why people skip Four Continents.

Personally, I do think the main reason is the scheduling. But, without extending the figure skating season, there is not much that can be done about that.

Let's be blunt, the big four nations in figure skating are Russia, Japan, America and Canada. And the majority of skaters that compete in the Senior grand Prix Series are from these four countries.

So, whereas other countries can afford to hold their National Championships during the GP Series, these countries cannot. They have to hold their Nationals later. Russia and Japan can get away with holding their National Championships during Christmas week, because it is not a holiday there. But, in North America, they have to wait until the holiday period is over.

The problem is that Europeans are held in mid to late January, and because they are so prestigious and have so many top skaters competing, the North American fans want to see them. So, American and Canadian National Championships are arranged around them. And, to give the American and Canadian skaters a chance to rest and then prepare, Four Continents have to be held later. Which means that the skaters that go there have less time to rest and prepare for Worlds than their European counterparts.

Do you remember the time I attempted to make out a calendar where the figure skating events would be better distributed both throughout the calendar and throughout the world? (See this post onwards). And in the end I gave up, because it was next to impossible to achieve.

Well, I do still think that starting the Junior and Senior GP's earlier in the calendar year could help. Hold all the Junior GP's during the school holidays in July and August, and then start the Senior GP's in September. Depending on how things are arranged, this might enable the GP Final to be held earlier.

But the main thing is that American and Canadian Championships need to be held near the start of January. That way, it will not be too long after the Japanese have their National Championships, so the American and Canadian skaters would be at less of a disadvantage. But, more importantly, it would enable Four Continents to be held earlier, perhaps even the week after Europeans.

This would undoubtedly make Four Continents more attractive to the top American and Canadian skaters.

Four Continents was a good idea in principle, to give skaters outside of Europe a chance to compete at a major international Championships before the World Championships. However, I do think mawamasha has hit the nail on the head.

The term “Four Continents” does not mean anything to people who are not die-hard figure skating fans. Being pedantic, there are 7 continents in total. And if you take away Europe, that leaves 6. So, it would not be unreasonable for the layman to be confused. Of course, the number four is arrived at by counting the Americas together, and discounting Antarctica, which is pretty much uninhabited. But, you have to think about it. It is not an instant answer.

Same with “Four Nationals”. Like, how many people in the street would be able to work out that that refers to the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary?!

Personally, I would be more in favour of getting rid of Four Continents and replacing it with three championships which are based on more specific geographic areas:

Pan-American Championships
Asia-Pacific Championships
All African Championships

Admittedly, there are not a great number of skaters in Africa. But, what could be done is to have the All-African Championships work like Four Nationals. Essentially, it would be all the National Championships in Africa held within a single competition. It would enable to skaters to have more opposition, and allow them to gauge themselves against skaters from other countries.

Again, the problem with having 3 championships would be where to fit them into the calendar.

I don’t know about other African countries, but South Africa normally holds their National Championships in May. Now, I am not too keen on having Championships that decide who goes to Worlds that far in advance. Like a lot of things can happen in 10 months. For example, a whole pregnancy!

But, given that we have never had African skaters compete in the Senior GP Series, the All-African Championships could be held any time between September and February.

My proposal would be to hold the remaining international championships on consecutive weeks at the end of January / start of February, with the order determined by when the countries involved traditionally hold their Nationals.

Last week of January: European Championships
First week of February: Asia-Pacific Championships
Second week of February: Pan-American Championships

Even with holding Europeans on the same week and 2 new championships on the subsequent weeks, they would all be over by the time Four Continents traditionally starts.

And, if they were all held a week earlier, it would be even better!

Oh, and if you are wondering where I got the idea of these sorts of championships from, it is derived from a thread that I started back in July, but which nobody was interested in. :disapp:

Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

CaroLiza_fan
 
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The problem is that Europeans are held in mid January, and because they are so prestigious and have so many top skaters competing, the North American fans want to see them. So, American and Canadian National Championships are further delayed until Europeans are over. And, to give the American and Canadian skaters a chance to rest and then prepare, Four Continents have to be held later. Which means that the skaters that go there have less time to rest and prepare for Worlds than their European counterparts.

What? This year's US and Canadian Nationals were held the week BEFORE Europeans. I'm pretty sure it's at least one week or two before Euros every year.

There is still a month until Worlds. I am calling bogus on the excuses. This is a bloody Championship event and it's time it was treated like one - by everybody, the fans and skaters included.
 
What? This year's US and Canadian Nationals were held the week BEFORE Europeans. I'm pretty sure it's at least one week or two before Euros every year.

Sorry. That was a typing mistake which I just spotted and corrected myself.

Too many things going around in my head at the moment (i.e. thinking about Four Continents Predictions! ;) :biggrin: ), and I got mixed up in what I was saying. :o:

CaroLiza_fan
 
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It's gonna be interesting as to how the top countries will treat next year's 4CC :think:
 
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I do not think that splitting 4CC into smaller continental events is a good idea. It would cause even further "dilution" of prestige. I guess it would cause even less interest for elite skaters too - hence more skipping. And it would be much less attractive for fans too. How fun would the pairs in Asian Championships be? Or ice dance? Not to mention the whole African championship. No one would give a damn.
4CC is fine! Even if some skaters skip - alternates are often fun to watch and high level skaters. But something could to be done to make it more attractive for skaters. For example: how about a wild-card for Worlds for top finishers who failed to qualify nationally? Not that it would help skipping by those who qualified already ;). Otherwise, ISU could figure something out to "attract" National Federations to send best skaters.

I also do not believe the time differences excuse: example - Russian Nationals. Around 10 days after GPF. And GPF is often held outside Europe. Somehow it is not a problem for skaters. I think that 4CC timing is ok: app 3 weeks after US/Can Nationals and over one month before Worlds. Come on! And the name 4CC is fine. Casual sport viewers dont care about figure skating anyway and will never bother.
 
There is still a month until Worlds. I am calling bogus on the excuses. This is a bloody Championship event and it's time it was treated like one - by everybody, the fans and skaters included.

I agree. I think all of the reasons cited are just excuses, sorry...

7. skating is more popular in Europe and there are top notch skaters all cross the continent whereas 4ccs is rather concerntrated ladies US and Japan and sometimes Canada; pairs Canada and China and sometimes US, men has the most diverse. Ice dance - Canada and US..

I really doubt skating is more popular in Europe than in North America. And at Europeans there's really Russia and Russia :laugh:. Sometimes France and Italy have strong teams (ie medal potential in 2 events) but the depth is just not the same. Germany and the UK have one strong skater here and there.
It's not like there's never any surprise skaters from 4CC countries at all: Yuna Kim, Takahashi/Tran, Denis Ten, Li Zijun...

Watching Obscure European skaters is the best part of Euros for me! Trying to spot future talents like this 15 year old Spanish guy called Javier Fernandez who finished 28th in the SP at 2007 Euros, or Tomas Verner who finished 14th in 2002. There are a lot of skaters who came from smaller countries and who learned a lot from competing in a big competition such as Europeans!

I like the idea of having an "Asian Championship" instead, maybe it will force Asian countries to focus on all the disciplines. With so much talent in singles it stills baffles me that Japan is so weak in Pairs!
Don't bother with a North American one since they are the one complaining it's an inconvenience because it's too close to their Nationals which they will never move earlier :p . Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan skaters can come skate at Europeans :hap10: .
 
Yay, I also think that 4CC should be treated as the proper championship event that it is. It's also unfair to fans who book (not exactly cheap) tickets for flights and the event, just to find that one of the headliners decides not to turn up. Asia could well do a continental championship, but with North America...well, their Nationals are such big events, there is no need for a head-to-head between Canada and US.
Europeans are a big thing in the calendar and 4CC is just presenting a similar stage to other Nations. I find it quite important for skaters/teams that might have won a medal at their Nationals, putting someone off the podium, who is usually regarded as much better, as they can proof that they actually deserve going to Worlds.
Onwards and upwards. I'm looking forward to it, despite the abysmal TV coverage.:popcorn:
 
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