A fair way to pick GPF finalists?

[Pamigena]

If you want to assume that everyone skated their PB in the FS, you might as well assume that everyone could have reached a new personal low. Given the circumstances, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that many wouldn't have had the nerves to put out a decent skate (and understandably so if you ask me). So instead of their PB, why don't we take their worst FS scores of this season? Or if it was their first competition of the season, the worst score of last season? Or maybe we can take their worst score ever, plus their PB, and then we calculate the average score and add that to the SP? All those made-up numbers make as much (or as little) sense as anything else.

and of course this was me being totally serious and not sarcastic at all. Just to be clear about that :sarcasm:

 

[moriel]

I want to mention that if Patrick and Elizaveta would have done well in the SP we wouldn't have this discussion. Then nearly everyone would be fine if they were just using the results from the SP. Just think about it.
And Patrick is an old pro, I bet he could live with it and I honestly think that Elizaveta needs a couple of smaller competitions before Nationals. I don't want her to miss Europeans and Worlds!

No, Id still butthurt about pairs:

2 Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA 65.75 36.40 29.35 7.43 7.11 7.46 7.36 7.32 0.00 #5
3 Julianne SEGUIN / Charlie BILODEAU CAN 64.95 36.00 28.95 7.25 7.07 7.29 7.21 7.36 0.00 #2
4 Cheng PENG / Hao ZHANG CHN 64.10 34.07 31.03 7.96 7.57 7.57 7.93 7.75 1.00 #8
5 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 64.08 35.43 28.65 7.14 6.96 7.36 7.14 7.21 0.00 #6
6 Marissa CASTELLI / Mervin TRAN USA 62.63 34.97 27.66 7.04 6.64 7.00 7.04 6.86 0.00 #1
7 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 62.32 33.12 30.20 7.75 7.46 7.32 7.64 7.57 1.00 #7


I mean, srsly, those 2 to 7 placements... Picking the top 2 is like flipping a coin.

 

[QuadThrow]

Maybe that is the easiest way, but I must say not really fair.

Take the nest 5 pairs for GPF and add V/T.
Take the best 4 women and add Gold and Tuktamysheva.
Take the best 4 men and add Chan and Uno.
Take the best 6 dance pairs and ignore TEB.

 

[HanDomi]

Maybe that is the easiest way, but I must say not really fair.

Take the nest 5 pairs for GPF and add V/T.
Take the best 4 women and add Gold and Tuktamysheva.
Take the best 4 men and add Chan and Uno.
Take the best 6 dance pairs and ignore TEB.

Then maybe we should already choose a winner for GPF ? It will be even easier way

 

[Jombi]

Regarding using SP scores, doesn't it establish a dangerous precedent? It could give ammunitions to those determined to revolutionize the sport by eliminating one segment of the competition (if I recall correctly there were some rumours last summer regarding this subject).

 

[Sugarpova]

The only relatively fair way I see is to let skaters skate their FP/FD at different country/city/place at the same time. Everything else will not be 'fair'.

yep
thats my opinion also

I want to mention that if Patrick and Elizaveta would have done well in the SP we wouldn't have this discussion. Then nearly everyone would be fine if they were just using the results from the SP. Just think about it.

I still would say its unfair even if my faves did good

 

[Icey]

Let every skater who has competed in a grand prix event, compete in the final.

 

[cruzceleste]

Let every skater who has competed in a grand prix event, compete in the final.

Cost will sky rocked

 

[solani]

No, Id still butthurt about pairs:

2 Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA 65.75 36.40 29.35 7.43 7.11 7.46 7.36 7.32 0.00 #5
3 Julianne SEGUIN / Charlie BILODEAU CAN 64.95 36.00 28.95 7.25 7.07 7.29 7.21 7.36 0.00 #2
4 Cheng PENG / Hao ZHANG CHN 64.10 34.07 31.03 7.96 7.57 7.57 7.93 7.75 1.00 #8
5 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 64.08 35.43 28.65 7.14 6.96 7.36 7.14 7.21 0.00 #6
6 Marissa CASTELLI / Mervin TRAN USA 62.63 34.97 27.66 7.04 6.64 7.00 7.04 6.86 0.00 #1
7 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 62.32 33.12 30.20 7.75 7.46 7.32 7.64 7.57 1.00 #7


I mean, srsly, those 2 to 7 placements... Picking the top 2 is like flipping a coin.

I correct myself: we wouldn't have this 50+ page discussion.

I still would say its unfair even if my faves did good

Yes, but there is no fair solution to this.

I'm sure that there won't be a new algorithm to select the finalists. There's no time for this an all federations have to agree. I don't see that happen.

 

[HanDomi]

Still think this will end with SP's standings. There is no fully fair way to do that and isu will have to take hard decision and there will be a lot of hate on them as I expect.
This should end with what was put on the ice, not with delusional added PB's or something. You just don't know what would have happened in free. Now Chan is going to GPF with just SP. Maybe he would have bombed that much that he would have thrown himself out of top5 and bye bye final.

This will end with SP likely.

 

[Icey]

Cost will sky rocked

That is probably going to happen no matter how this is handled. Do the feds or ISU not have an emergency fund?

 

[moonprizm]

Honestly.. People keep throwing out fair and unfair.. I don't understand that. I feel you should always skate like it's your last skate. Who knows what will happen tomorrow.. I think people are upset because the "favorites" skated poorly. That is unfortunate, and it may be a tough pill to swallow..I know these events are not their fault at all. I'm sure they learned a tiny lesson here. Anything could happen.

 

[Moxiejan]

Here's my suggestion; I've seen similar in this thread but perhaps not the exact one. I would use only the SP from TEB for TEB points, because any other method (later freeskate, PB for freeskate, other event for freeskate) would introduce factors that would violate the "sameness" in day/ice conditions/judges that is essential for a consistent competition. THEN:

1. As always, calculate the Top 6 (and order of alternates) using results from the 6 events.
2. For TEB skaters only, ADD to the Top 6 field (but not alternates) anyone who did not make the Top 6 but did get a medal in one of the other Grand Prix events.

For ladies at TEB: Gracie makes the Top 6 based on Rule 1. Added due to Rule 2: Elizaveta. Possibly added: Roberta, if she medals at CoR. All others already have had their other event or don't have a 2nd event. Result: GPF field is expanded to 7 or 8.

For men at TEB: Shoma makes Top 6 based on Rule 1. If Patrick does not make it on Rule 1, he makes it on Rule 2. Daisuke and Max make it on Rule 2. If Maxim medals at NHK, he could make it on either rule. Result: GPF field is expanded to possibly 10.

For pairs at TEB: S/B and T/M make it on Rule 2 (and S/B possibly on Rule 1). These would need their 2nd event to make it on either rule: V/T, J/C, P/Z. So this could go up to 11, but likely no more than 9.

For dance at TEB: G/P make it on Rule 2 (and possibly Rule 1). H/D and S/B would need their 2nd event to make it on either rule. Result: GPF field is expanded to possibly 9, but likely no more than 8.

So really, this doesn't expand the GPF by large numbers. And, more importantly, doesn't reduce in any way the chances of skaters not at TEB to make the final.

 

[uhh]

Adding even 1 skater to the field at GPF for the men & ladies means an extra warm up group, which means longer competition time (roughly 10 minutes per skater) & an extra 40 minutes at least per discipline for practice. Slightly more room for dance & pairs because they already split the groups, but still adding a lot of extra time to the schedule. So under Moxiejean's idea, you would need about an extra 50 minutes per day for ladies, over an hour for men, potentially up to 2 hours for pairs, and 30-40 minutes for dance. Around 4 hours in total per day, and that's not accounting for the extra ice resurfacing that might be needed. But if you look at the schedule, the rink is already in use from 6 am every day to 10/10.30pm with barely any breaks. I don't see how they can add any more skaters.

 

[Seren]

The fairest thing is using the SP. Of coarse it stinks for the skaters that didn't get a chance to come back in the free skate and improve their ranking but everyone had the same shot in the SP. Conditions were the same and judging was the same. They all had the same shot at the SP. There is no way to know how anyone would have skated in the freeskate and thusly taking seasons best scores isn't fair to other skaters both in TEB and in other events. Is Liza capable of a knock out free? Of course she is but no one knows how she actually would have skated. The SP is the only objective information we have and thusly it is what should stand.

Having skaters do their programs at home isn't fair because conditions, judging (even if they did it remotely camera equipment and angles would not be the same) are not the same.

That said this whole mess could have been prevented if the ISU had rules about what should happen in scenarios where the event has to be cancelled partway through. I was actually surprised they didn't given how long the figure skating rule book is.

 

[Pamigena]

I saw a video of an interview with Gailhaguet (can't provide a link, sorry) where he talked about how they would propose to use the SP results for the final placement, so that the skaters wouldn't suffer under the cancellation of the event. So, to me, that actually already sounded like giving them ANY points at all for TEB was considered a gift to the skaters. The more I think about it, the more I believe that they will also not add any spots to the GPF. The easiest solution for them is to say well, under our current rules you have to complete 2 programs during a competition, and since you have only completed one program, we would actually have the right to call the whole event null and void. Not fair? Sucks to be them, I guess. Therefore I can see how they would just say We give you GP points based on what you did in the SP. We could also give you nothing at all. Take it or leave it.
Is it fair? No. Is it likely to happen? I think it is. If there really is no set contingency plan for cases where the FS can't take place, this would be the easiest solution for them and the one that doesn't cost them anything extra.

 

[Rissa]

Cost will sky rocked

Not to mention impossible time-wise. To have 140 skaters/teams instead of 24 makes a difference.

 

[cruzceleste]

Not to mention impossible time-wise. To have 140 skaters/teams instead of 24 makes a difference.

Certanly

 

[cruzceleste]

That is probably going to happen no matter how this is handled. Do the feds or ISU not have an emergency fund?

If I´m correct skaters have to cover some of the money themself, like cost of travels for the coach, so even if feds and ISU have some money, what will happened if the skater doesn´t have the money to do the traveling again? Will he lose his placement?

 

[shyne]

We all have skaters we want to see at gpf, i found it funny that some people think it's fair that skaters given spots on the GPF because they "might come back with a stronger FS performance".
While, I think it's not fair to give out spots based on something they have not done.
Yes, skaters at TEB should not be placed at a disadvantage over skaters at other events. But they should also not gain any advantages over them because that's not fair to the rest of the skaters who competed at other events.