Andrew Torgashev

[el henry]

Thank you for your analyses, @skatngfan4ever!

It is interesting (and nerve wracking) to follow a skater rebuilding his career like Andrew. When I first followed skating a very long time ago, thanks to the great in my avatar , we didn't have (or at least I didn't) access to junior skaters, "lower level" skaters, or anything except what they showed on Wide World of Sports, I had no idea.

Fast forward to 2014, hadn't been following skating for at least ten years, and Jason brought me back. Skaters could do that?!? and as I regained my fandom by becoming a Jason uber, I realized we skating fans could learn so much more about all the amazing skaters. Like on skating forums.

So, because I now knew about and could watch juniors, the next year I did. A 14 year old boy skating at US Nats in 2015 with all the possession and passion of skaters many years his senior won the junior title. I was entranced. And the rest is history.

Shoutout to @Tav for your new avatar as well!

 

[skatingfan4ever]

I remember when people used to moan about Patrick being inconsistent on jumps. Granted, he wasn't a multi-quad skater (although he did land the 4S a couple of times in competition after his comeback) and his 3A could be iffy, but looking back I think that, while he wasn't always perfectly clean on his jumps, he was more consistent on them than many people gave him credit for at the time. Times have changed a little and now people sort of "expect" a few mistakes, maybe? Since more skaters are now attempting multiple types of quads per program? But with Patrick, people criticized him for any mistake he made. I can think of 6 or 7 clean long programs and even more clean short programs he skated in his career. When he was clean, it was so special. And when he wasn't, there was still so much to enjoy and appreciate in his skating.

Those last 2 sentences also apply to the namesake of this thread!

Patrick is the subject of my avatar currently, and I like his smile so much I might not ever change it again.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Let's reminisce! Here are Andrew's programs at 2023 Worlds, with no commentary, full replays and full K&C.

2023 Worlds Short Program
2023 Worlds Free Skate

I love the camerawork for both programs, even though Andrew made some mistakes on jumps in both programs. Looking back at these programs several months later, his 3A has gotten much better this season. The camera caught all of Andrew's gorgeous attention to detail. Andrew's arm and body positions are perhaps even more beautiful in the replays. In general I appreciated how the audience let us fully hear and absorb the music, as if not wanting to distract from what was happening in front of them.

One thing I noticed in the LP is how Andrew paused right with the music before the choreo sequence and then exploded into the choreo sequence as the music returned. And since the crowd was completely silent, the moment was obvious and had power. It hit differently than at Nationals when the crowd was already screaming in excitement. The camera at Worlds caught the explosion just right. Also, the build of the music as he's going into the two 3F combos excites me every time. I love how in this choreo sequence you can really see the wind rushing through his hair. They say you can't accurately judge speed on video, but still, that has to be an indication of speed, right?

Andrew had neither the most technically difficult nor the cleanest programs at Worlds, but the crowd gave him such gracious, prolonged applause after both programs. His bows seemed longer than usual, as if he wanted to bask in it and thank every single audience member. After the LP, he turned around by the boards to wave and bow one more time. It was obvious that he felt and appreciated the love from the audience, as he articulated later. For me as his fan, his mistakes fade from my memory when the audience gives him such a warm response in spite of them.

One last observation. Last season, I found his LP a little more engaging than his SP, and this season so far I find his SP a little more engaging than his LP. Funny how that happens.

 

[Tav]

Let's reminisce! Here are Andrew's programs at 2023 Worlds, with no commentary, full replays and full K&C.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

I love the camerawork for both programs, even though Andrew made some mistakes on jumps in both programs. Looking back at these programs several months later, his 3A has gotten much better this season. The camera caught all of Andrew's gorgeous attention to detail. Andrew's arm and body positions are perhaps even more beautiful in the replays. In general I appreciated how the audience let us fully hear and absorb the music, as if not wanting to distract from what was happening in front of them.

One thing I noticed in the LP is how Andrew paused right with the music before the choreo sequence and then exploded into the choreo sequence as the music returned. And since the crowd was completely silent, the moment was obvious and had power. It hit differently than at Nationals when the crowd was already screaming in excitement. The camera at Worlds caught the explosion just right. Also, the build of the music as he's going into the two 3F combos excites me every time. I love how in this choreo sequence you can really see the wind rushing through his hair. They say you can't accurately judge speed on video, but still, that has to be an indication of speed, right?

Andrew had neither the most technically difficult nor the cleanest programs at Worlds, but the crowd gave him such gracious, prolonged applause after both programs. His bows seemed longer than usual, as if he wanted to bask in it and thank every single audience member. After the LP, he turned around by the boards to wave and bow one more time. It was obvious that he felt and appreciated the love from the audience, as he articulated later. For me as his fan, his mistakes fade from my memory when the audience gives him such a warm response in spite of them.

One last observation. Last season, I found his LP a little more engaging than his SP, and this season so far I find his SP a little more engaging than his LP. Funny how that happens.

Thanks for these videos! They are of very high quality. Andrew looked so scared to be at Worlds last season. I'm sure he loved it and said he did, but you could see in his eyes how nervous he was. He even said to Raf at the end of the FS that there were a lot of people in the arena, meaning a lot more than he was accustomed to skating in front of. I wonder if he had some performance anxiety issues.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

During his Worlds SP, Tara and Johnny complimented Andrew's beautiful, luxurious lines, extension, and the power in his skating, and his presence on the ice. Both spoke highly of his step sequence, calling it a shining moment with lovely tension and lovely dance quality, saying Andrew didn't oversell the step sequence but gave us just enough (Johnny likened it to "a little wink." They said Andrew created a wonderful tension on the ice through his arms, through his whole body, and there's a lot of rise and fall. It's clear both of them love and enjoy his skating and are rooting for him to become consistent on the jumps. It feels somewhat redundant to type this because we've been saying similar things about his skating in this very thread (at least @el henry has) since he was a young Junior. Side note: If you go back through the thread, which I did, you see how often he had to WD from events because of injury, which is heartbreaking.

NBC didn't show his Worlds LP. but that's okay. I'll take no commentary any day.

@Tav, now that you mention it, he did look so nervous there. That may account for his unexpected mistakes on both 3F+3Ts. As I said at the time, I'm so proud of him for landing the second 3F right afterward in the Free Skate. Also, you know Russian.

 

[Tav]

@Tav, now that you mention it, he did look so nervous there. That may account for his unexpected mistakes on both 3F+3Ts. As I said at the time, I'm so proud of him for landing the second 3F right afterward in the Free Skate. Also, you know Russian.

I don't know Russian. I can read the alphabet, but that's it. I remember someone mentioning in a comment somewhere at the time what he said to Raf. It stood out to me because, in my mind, it explained why he seemed so nervous to me.

 

[Tav]

Oh, I may have neglected to mention something I discovered about 4CC and U.S. selection. Jason Brown doesn't go to 4CC anymore, as a part-timer, but Ilia could always decide to go, but, Ilia has decided to do Art on Ice 2024, which starts literally four days after 4CC ends. Also 4CC is only one week after Nationals. I'm just thinking he's not going to do 4CC if he's going to be prioritizing Nationals and Art on Ice, which is what he did last season. There's just another reason for him to ignore 4CC this season because of the time crunch issue for him.

This very likely means there are two spots for 4CC that will be passed up on, giving Andrew a good chance to go this season, assuming three U.S. men can compete there. Provided he stays within the range of the top 5 U.S. senior men, that is. At this point, he's done all he can already, assuming he doesn't compete again until Nationals. I think his main competitors are Camden, Tomoki, and Jimmy. Maybe Lucas, too?

 

[Tav]

There's not much to chat about in this thread, lately, but I thought it was interesting that Andrew has maintained the number 2 spot in U.S. men's Season's Best standings, so far.

This week, that is not likely to last because Jason Brown will be competing internationally for the first time this season at the Warsaw Cup. Of course, that's great! Andrew's not ready to overtake Jason's scores at this time (but, someday!).

1. Ilia Malinin | 310.47
2. Andrew Torgashev | 233.26
3. Camden Pulkinen | 230.84
4. Tomoki Hiwatashi | 223.79
5. Jimmy Ma | 222.49
6. Liam Kapeikis | 220.15
7. Daniel Martynov | 220.09
8. Lucas Broussard | 216.10
9. Beck Strommer | 210.92
10. Maxim Naumov | 210.53

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Andrew is on the Entry List for Golden Spin, along with Tomoki. (Goku Endo and Yaroslav Paniot are the subs). Camden will be at NHK.

I have to say, I like the way they're needing to pick 4CC this season. It feels less like a "you didn't do as well at Nationals" and more like a "you earned this through your Fall achievements." That seems to be the point of the body of work argument, but because they're picking 4CC before Nationals, it's more explicitly spelled out because Nationals won't enter in. I find it more exciting that 4CC is not a consolation prize this time.

https://results.isu.org/events/cscro2023_Men.htm

 

[el henry]

Yassss Andrew!

Just a small point, Goku and Yaro are subs. Tomoki is an entrant, and he has done well in his comps this year, so it is a testament to Andrew that USFS are sending these two together.

But most of all, lucky for us that we will (I hope) see Andrew skate. I am trying to remember if they had a stream in the past, and drawing a blank.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Yassss Andrew!

Just a small point, Goku and Yaro are subs. Tomoki is an entrant, and he has done well in his comps this year, so it is a testament to Andrew that USFS are sending these two together.

But most of all, lucky for us that we will (I hope) see Andrew skate. I am trying to remember if they had a stream in the past, and drawing a blank.

Oh, yes. I hadn't noticed that "S" column before. I think maybe I need to be kinder to Tomoki. He's had some epic meltdowns, which are stuck in my mind, but that doesn't mean he can't get it together. I mean, I'm sure there were people who didn't think Andrew could do a Free Skate like 2023 Nationals until 2023 Nationals happened. Competitions tend to be a little bit unpredictable, especially in men these days.

I edited my previous post so that it is accurate now.

 

[el henry]

Oh, yes. I hadn't noticed that "S" column before. I think maybe I need to be kinder to Tomoki. He's had some epic meltdowns, which are stuck in my mind, but that doesn't mean he can't get it together. I mean, I'm sure there were people who didn't think Andrew could do a Free Skate like 2023 Nationals until 2023 Nationals happened. Competitions tend to be a little bit unpredictable, especially in men these days.

I edited my previous post so that it is accurate now.

I hope you don't mind that I mentioned it, it is a mistake anyone could make.

I like Tomoki, and I don't think you were unkind; hehas not been the most consistent skater on the planet, (and this is Andrew's FF, so I don't want to make it about him). As you noted, if I am being honest, neither has our boy. But Golden Spin is a great opportunity to practice even more, there is good international competition, and close enough to Nats to perfect those programs!

I wish I could remember, all the times Jason competed at Golden Spin, if there was a stream

 

[skatingfan4ever]

I am encouraged that Andrew's long programs at both Lombardia and Skate America were very good. Hopefully the short program will go well at Golden Spin, which lately seems to be the more mentally difficult program for Andrew. As to whether he'll land a quad in either program (and what type) is anyone's guess. I am excited already!

 

[Tav]

Congrats to Andrew for the Golden Spin assignment!!! I'm so happy! I was hoping he would get to go because he needs another international. I'm not sure a stream is going to be provided this season, but at least that doesn't impact him in any way. We'll just have to watch the score sheet and see how he does. Hope for the BEST!

I want a confident Andrew this season more often than not! It really seems like confidence in himself is his biggest problem. He can do everything he attempts so well, but it's like he gets too insecure for some competitions and just can't seem to get out of his own head. He is so much like Amber Glenn in that he seems to be his own worst enemy when he competes. Both of them are amazing when they do well.

He's not a big quad guy, but his 3-3s are very solid and his 3A is far more reliable than not. His skating is gorgeous and musical interpretation are second-to-none. He's willing to do unusual things with his programs and use program music nobody else will go anywhere near. (I can't begin to tell you how bored to death I am by most skaters skating to the same stupid music every season as if Compulsory Dance never went away.) I hope one day we see him getting 250s internationally because that should be very possible for him with how high quality of a skater he is, and how much better he can only get.

 

[Tav]

1. Ilia Malinin | 310.47
2. Andrew Torgashev | 233.26
3. Camden Pulkinen | 230.84
4. Tomoki Hiwatashi | 223.79
5. Jimmy Ma | 222.49
6. Liam Kapeikis | 220.15
7. Daniel Martynov | 220.09
8. Lucas Broussard | 216.10
9. Beck Strommer | 210.92
10. Maxim Naumov | 210.53

I'll fix this list to reflect Jason's Warsaw Cup score...

U.S. Men's Season's Best Current Scores:

1. Ilia Malinin | 310.47
2. Jason Brown | 236.75
3. Andrew Torgashev | 233.26
4. Camden Pulkinen | 230.84
5. Tomoki Hiwatashi | 223.79
6. Jimmy Ma | 222.49
7. Liam Kapeikis | 220.15
8. Daniel Martynov | 220.09
9. Lucas Broussard | 216.10
10. Beck Strommer | 210.92
11. Maxim Naumov | 210.53

 

[Crowdproud]

... U.S. men could still have three entries this season for [4CC], though I don't know how they decide on the number of entries per country. All this assumes Ilia won't be going. We know Jason won't be going, for sure. Also, Andrew does have the tech mins met already for 4CC this time.

All countries participating in 4CC get three entries per discipline. Unlike the European championships, there's no need for per country quotas, since there aren't enough countries participating to begin with. Likewise, due to a lower total number of participants, everyone makes the free skate almost all the time.

 

[Tav]

All countries participating in 4CC get three entries per discipline. Unlike the European championships, there's no need for per country quotas, since there aren't enough countries participating to begin with. Likewise, due to a lower total number of participants, everyone makes the free skate almost all the time.

That is very cool. Thanks for that!

 

[Tav]

Andrew's not doing Golden Spin anymore! He had to withdraw for some reason... OMG, if he's injured again... Please be nothing serious!

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Andrew's not doing Golden Spin anymore! He had to withdraw for some reason... OMG, if he's injured again... Please be nothing serious!

I read a rumor about this. Now it's confirmed. Although, Andrew is still listed as a sub; I'm not sure if that means anything.

Looking at it positively, if there is a small injury, Andrew could be wisely giving it plenty of time to heal before Nationals. But I'm nervous because after SA he said he wanted to do another international. So I'm thinking, "What happened between then and now?!?!"

I also don't know how this may affect his chances for 4CC. At worst, Camden, Tomoki, and Goku could each score higher than 233 at their competitions. I'm not sure how likely that is, but it's possible. Not to mention winning medals. We'll just have to wait and see.

Andrew and his injuries. I hope he's okay! I suppose it could be an illness but if so, then why would he withdraw so early?

The bottom line is, we don't know and can only hope for the best.

 

[el henry]

Oh no, I want Andrew to heal but selfishly I am so disappointed.

Well, if it is a small injury, much better to heal. With all due respect to Goku, I can't imagine selecting him over a healthy Andrew. Maybe that is my fandom talking.