Re: hors deadoerves
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Were Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze trying to act out this story, or were they just skating to the music?[/quote] Mathman, I wasn't at practices with B&S and Moskvina, but looking at the choreography, I think they used "Meditation by Thais" as an abstract piece of music. They may have used images of meditation and decision-making, but from what I saw and what Moskvina talked about at the Olympics, pre-scandal, was that it was about the beauty of skating.
Verbalgirl (damn, I should have used that name:lol: ),
I think the concept of warm vs. cool programs is very important and one I have not seen discussed before. ITA that in '94 the crowd went with Mishkutenok/Dmitriev's "hot" and passionate Rach whereas the judges went with Gordeeva/Grinkov's "cool" and classical Moonlight Sonata. Again, this was a case where one team had a couple of mistakes (Sergei on his 2Axel and singling I think it was the 2toe at the end of their jump sequence). M/D gave an amazng performance without mistakes, but what you cannot see on TV is the differences in the core strength of the two teams. When G/G stroke around the rink at amazing speed, there is no sound. They are so centered over the blade you would hardly know they were skating. M/D were not in the kind of shape they wanted to be for those Olympics and they knew it. Natalia had had problems of various kinds that kept her from training at ther fullest and by the time she got everything together, the Olympics were coming up fast. IMO, had M/D been in the kind of shape they were in at the '92 Olympics, they might have beaten G/G. They had beaten G/G before, even at Worlds, so it was not out of the question. But M/D just were not there overall in terms of being in shape, though they did a great job of covering it with their passion. G/G were in perhaps the best shape they ever were as pairs skaters but ironically nerves played a factor. As I'm sure most here have seen, Katia has said that Sergei did not sleep the entire night before the LP because he was so nervous.
Anyway, back to the issue of warm and cool programs, I think it's hard even for judges who are supposed to look for technical things, not to be drawn into warm programs--and I'm not talking about "Love Story," I mean any warm program. I've wondered on occasion if at the '98 Olympics Yagudin had not gotten sick or if Todd had skated his program cleanly if they would have beaten Candeloro. Candeloro's technique could be described as "funky" but his "D'artagnian" program had both technical difficulty and it was very warm, to the point of having a slight sense of humor. If Todd or Alexei had performed programs that technically more difficult but "cool" I wonder if the warmth of Candeloro's program would have been enough for him to get the bronze? Of course we will never know, but I think it gives an example of how warmth in a program can help. OTOH, Kulik's "Rhapsody in Blue" was performed with a straight face but with gorgeous technique. Hard to remember that in '98 just one 4toe made the difference in winning the gold medal; although a few others landed quads, mostly the Chinese IIRC, the rest of their skating wasn't up to the top six men. IMO, '98 men's was a case where both warm and cool programs "won" in a way. Kulik was one of the favorites for the gold based on his jumping ability, but nobody expected Candeloro to be in the race for a medal, yet besides Ilia's shirt
, I think people rememeber Philipe's program most out of the men's LP in '98.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Ok, let me get this straight.
People in the Checz Republic and the Ukrain are all familiar with ballet and classical music as well as the finer points of figure skating, so Joe Smo off the street could tell which overhead lift was more difficult.
People in Canada and the US only understand pulp novels and mainstream movies. Who cares about actual skating, just as long as teh program has a good boy meets girl theme to it.
Sorry, but I think that the only thing you hit the nail on the head with was 'Baywatch' being universally popular.[/quote] :rollin: Berthes Ghost: Well at least I got the "Baywatch" thing right:lol: Seriously, I guess in trying to be succinct I just sunk my point. Of course I would never think that people in Eastern European countries or Ukraine are all familiar with ballet and classical music as well as the finer points of figure skating, including which overhead lift was more difficult, and that North Americans only get pulp novels and mainstream movies, and that the skating should just have a good boy-meets-girl theme.
What I had hoped to get across was the idea that IMO had the '02 Winter Olympics been held in, say, Prague that the audience reaction to both "Love Story" and "Meditation" would have been different for cultural reasons, not because Eastern Europeans know more about anything, except of course Eastern European stuff. Because of their cultural and political background, the audience at the arena, which I'm assuming would have had more Europeans, Eastern Europeans, and Russians there relative to North Americans, might not have responded so exuberantly to "Love Story" because it's not part of their collective consciousness. With B&S again, just because of cultural differences, they might have gone more for the "cooler" program and also something that, at least to me, had an abstract sense of coming together and parting. My point was that people in different parts of the world respond differently to different styles. It had absolutely nothing to do with Czech audience member Joe Smo (ah, I think that would be Jozef Chmo
) knowing one whit more about figure skating than Brooklyn's Joe Shmo. It goes along with the idea that some people have that the Eastern European judges tend to favor Irina's programs to opera music, assuming she skates as well as Michelle technically, not because of anything political--although of course I know politics get into this stuff--but rather because the judges' cultural backgrounds cause them to prefer seeing skating to that kind of music, just as North American judges tend to prefer skating to other kinds of music. Once when some US pair team, I forget who, did an exhibition piece to music from Cirque du Soleil (Joe's favorite
), Dick Button said, "Some music is just right for skating and this isn't. Skating works with music like songs by Frank Sinatra and..." Dick listed several other pieces of music he liked. I remember wondering at the time if someone from Montreal or France would have the same response. Not whether the skating was good or bad, just whether the Cirque du Soleil music suited skating in general. So that was the point I tried and obviously failed to make. But hey, at least I got that we are all one when it comes to "Baywatch":smokin:
As for going over the '02 Olympic pairs stuff with B&S and S&P and saying the same things, I think it's okay because (a) there are a lot of new members, (b) people always tend to argue the same things about "art" or personal preferences, (c) I don't think any one person can state as a fact "Nothing new here has been said," and (d) sometimes you can read things again and again and then one time you read it again in a particular context or by a particular person and you say, "Hey, I never thought of it like that before." I have no problem with repetition since I figure those who are bored with the topic just don't have to read it. But the personal attacks, as Joe said, they are verboten at GS as well they should be. But at least for the time being, rather than locking the thread, I would vote for deletions if any post is that offensive with a stern warning, as was issued, about personal attacks, and give people another chance to continue the discussion. Of course if the attacks start again, then lock her up, but aside from a couple of tiffs, I didn't see anything worth a lock up. JMO.
Rgirl
"> That last post was meant to address comments from thvudragon, not you. Sincerest apologies.
First of all, I was trying to joke a little and lighten things up when I referred to people only remembering Ilia for his shirt. Ilia made a joke out of it when after the press bugged him about his costume all week he shut them all up by saying, with a smile, "The shirt won. That's it." 
