Bebe, Stephanie, and other non-Olympians

[Joesitz (RIP)]

And if Kwan leaves, expect the media pressure to kick into overdrive.

What? and drop Sasha after all the hype she got from Nats to Worlds?

I do believe you see hype as the most important element in figure skating. Kimmie just came out of her cacoon with her World Championship. She deserves a bit of hype. Why not?

Joe

 

[R.D.]

Wow, and you're the one complaining about people jumping to conclusions? I'm not even gonna say anything.

Anyway, let me clarify. Hype (from the press, NOT the fans mind you) IS a factor that can't be ignored. But you're totally off base in assuming that (I think) it's the MOST important element. And what do you mean by "element", anyway?

Kimmie's been getting hype long before she won the worlds. Remember the whole deal about the 3Axel? And it's even bigger here since I live in her hometown.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Kimmie's been getting hype long before she won the worlds. Remember the whole deal about the 3Axel? And it's even bigger here since I live in her hometown.

And you started on the campaign of knocking her down the instant she got a bit of hype. For some reason you resent hype to anyone other than Sasha.

Now answer the question: Does Sasha get hype? The buildup to Olys and worlds? the hollywood parties? the photos? the magazine spreads? the film offer? the apearance on a TV sitcom?

Am I off base to see you reluctant to say that Sasha does not get hype? I doubt you could get yourself to say anything like that.. Just pick on her competition. Soon your tirades will begin with your other favorite: Pressure!

 

[R.D.]

Please, don't even give me that. It's you again stuffing thoughts and words into people's brains/mouths. Where did I ever say that hype was BAD? Sorry, but sometimes I can't help but get the feeling that that's just what YOU want to hear from me. End of post.

 

[R.D.]

I digressed by responding to the poster in page 2 about Cohen. For that, I apologize. This thread should be about the new ones. the discussion about Cohen should be saved the OSB II thread. I think it's dead now, but come to think of it, maybe I should dig it up again.

 

[Spun Silver]

And you started on the campaign of knocking her down the instant she got a bit of hype. For some reason you resent hype to anyone other than Sasha.

Now answer the question: Does Sasha get hype? The buildup to Olys and worlds? the hollywood parties? the photos? the magazine spreads? the film offer? the apearance on a TV sitcom?

Am I off base to see you reluctant to say that Sasha does not get hype? I doubt you could get yourself to say anything like that.. Just pick on her competition. Soon your tirades will begin with your other favorite: Pressure!

Hmmm. ITA that it is absurd to be knocking Kimmie down at this point. (See my post to Red Dog in Announcements.)

But goodness - Red Dog is innocent of protecting Sasha!
He is always making me bristle as a Sasha fan.

 

[R.D.]

now, big Q for all of you. Is saying that Kimmie gets some hype and maybe wondering whether Kimmie peaked at Worlds or not REALLY knocking her down? Wow, you skate fans are just killing me... I've heard MUCH MUCH worse things said about other athletes and folks just laugh them off (of course, except for the fans of the athletes the comments are aimed at, lol.)

But I agree, it's ludicrous to possibly think I "protect" Cohen. You obviously haven't been reading all of my posts if you think so. In fact I have to concede that any posters who think the above WANT to cast me in the role of "SC protector".

And...it's things like this that drive me away from certain skaters at times. You can't talk about them without someone getting oversensitive and flipping out. Argh...

 

[password]

LMAO...Saying RD is a "Sasha portector" is like saying..."Osama Bin Ladin is a Bush protector" or better yet ..."Ted Kennedy is a Bush protector."

...Never misses an opportunity to diss

 

[Spun Silver]

now, big Q for all of you. Is saying that Kimmie gets some hype and maybe wondering whether Kimmie peaked at Worlds or not REALLY knocking her down?

...

And...it's things like this that drive me away from certain skaters at times. You can't talk about them without someone getting oversensitive and flipping out. Argh...

It is definitely not just about Kimmie. I am not even a fan of hers.

It may be about Sasha because you seem to have a personal need to diss her. (Why?)

But mainly it's just that the negativity gets old. Not to mention confusing. Shiz should have been more excited about OGM, according to you, but Kimmie should have looked glum instead of kissing her Gold medal since (according to you) she's now about to decline. The only consistent thing here is negativity. Don't you ever get excited about anyone's skating? Don't you ever see anyone do beautiful things and want to say thanks or great job?

To be fair, gender probably enters into this. I know guys are much more into ripping each other up when it comes to sports. I am very girly in that regard. Hate ripping. Like love. So sorry if I said anything to offend you, Red Dog.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

RD Writes about hype as a negative reason for a skater's popularity - but not for Sasha. He has never mentioned the enormous hype she gets, particularly in the past season. It was her season to win the one GP she was in (not so - Mao won that); the Nats (yes, MK was injured); Olys(Sasha's PCS scores would have her win - yeah); definitely The Worlds (all her big competitors would not be there - Yeah) All of this with big hype for the wins. Any mention by RD? - NO.

The other negative favorite is lpressure. It seems all of SC's competitors will have this great pressure. The implication is that the pressure will get to those competitors and they will crack. hmm who cracked?

The above is not a bash of Sasha whom I consider a first rate figure skater. It's just to show that negative characterizations without any source of facts or knowledge of skating history (just off-the-wall) opinions does not make a writer an expert in any sport.

Joe

 

[Sylvia]

Ok darlings, knock off the unending Sasha and Michelle thing! I don't even bother to read those anymore and thought this was a pretty good thread to discuss the up and comings.

Hey NC, are you getting the feeling we're just chatting on topic between ourselves here? I've just sent you a PM.

 

[R.D.]

But mainly it's just that the negativity gets old. Not to mention confusing. Shiz should have been more excited about OGM, according to you, but Kimmie should have looked glum instead of kissing her Gold medal since (according to you) she's now about to decline.

Calm the heck down about Kimmie! Good god, I simply just posted something that was running through my head! In other threads I have participated in discussion about her future. Why get all uptight? The only consistent thing that I've said (about Kimmie) is that 1) I think she'll continue on 2) I think that she may have hard times ahead of her (now this might be considered a -, but remember, it happens to the best of us too), and 3) If she can keep improving and keep up her love of skating (it shows) then she's likely to have more podium finishes/wins in her future.

Remember, this is someone who sprung from 6th at the Olympics to 1st at Worlds. As of now we really can't know what's going to happen to her next season. Will we see more 1sts or more 6ths? Not a bash, just a question. But...I thought there was a new Kimmie Meissner forum? Did GS suddenly morph into one?

Come to think of it, I remember getting similar flack after I basically said the same thing about Alissa Czisny last year. And guess what happened? (Note: this has nothing to do with the Kimmie discussion.)

The only consistent thing here is negativity. Don't you ever get excited about anyone's skating? Don't you ever see anyone do beautiful things and want to say thanks or great job?

You know, anyone who can go out there and lay it out all on the line when it counts most gets a thumbs up from me. But I like to focus more on the speculation/what could happen part of it. Been there, done that.

To be fair, gender probably enters into this. I know guys are much more into ripping each other up when it comes to sports. I am very girly in that regard. Hate ripping. Like love. So sorry if I said anything to offend you, Red Dog.

No offense taken. Besides, I'm used to it.

 

[Numbers Cruncher]

Red Dog and Joesitz - Hello?!?

Can you two please get a room? You've hijacked this thread with the usual Michelle/Sasha blah, blah, blah. You are making me and others sort of cranky, what's wrong with talking about some other skaters for a change?

I'm getting really brave here as I know you both have lots of knowledge and passion for the sport, but you do tend to drive us (at least me) off the forum with the same old, same old.

I see little kids just starting in basic skills wobbling around doing swizzles. I see beginning freestylers just learning their first waltz jumps. I see the Pre-Juveniles and Juveniles perfecting their axels and double jumps. I see the Intermediates and Novices fall and fall and struggle with those double axels and triple attempts and along the way develop presentation and learn how to catch the crowd's attention. I've been cheering on the Novice/Junior skaters knowing they'll be in the public eye soon. There are Regional and Sectional championships and Ice Theater and Dance and and Pairs and Ice Shows in little towns. The point is that there are thousands of really good skaters to talk about.

NC

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

No problem NC. I do have a good deal of knowledge and passion about figure skating having been a skater. I know the difference between a lutz and a flip among many other facets of figure skating, and I've had ample amount of experience. I just don't blindly drop out key words off the top of my head without any knowledge of skating. I also enjoy the complete 4 disciplines in figure skating and do not limit myself to one.

Don't you get tired or reading key words like: HYPE and PRESSURE without any explanation on using these words?

Joe (promise not to carry on any longer, but expect the last word to come.)

 

[Numbers Cruncher]

Squabble

Joe,

Do you really want to know? Nowadays, if the post has the words Michelle, Sasha or even Kimmie I just skip it. It's all passion and conjecture and really isn't going to go anyplace.

I know most of you may not see skating except for tv, but that's just the 2% on the top, there's this wonderful world brewing and bubbling right below that. The best money you'd ever spend would be to buy the figure skating channel membership and watch all the regionals and the sectionals and the adult skaters. Look up your local club and go cheer at their competitions, half the time all those little kids don't have anyone to cheer for them. See if you can pick out the next big thing, when she's (or he) still doing single jumps. You would not believe the joy on a skater's face when they land their first single axel in competition.

At Nationals I was astounded to realize that the majority of people around us were not skaters, but fans. They didn't even know non-qualifying competitions existed or that they could go to them FOR FREE!

I think the loyal fans are amazing. I'd like to see you pour your passion into something rather than fighting about silly stuff.

Now, has anyone ever heard of Felicia Gotstebehere? (Bad spelling)

NC

 

[R.D.]

The tough part about skating besides the top six (or 12 in an Olympic year) is that hardly anyone ever gets to see it. You really have to be a die-hard (which I don't consider myself to be) in order to be motivated to check it out. Pretty soon we may not even get the top six. We may just get highlights.

I can't really talk about the lower skaters mainly because I'VE NEVER SEEN THEM; therefore, most of them I haven't even heard of. However, I know of some of the up-and-comers in the US and Europe mainly due to the slight overexposure this past year since it was an Olympic year. I think there's some kind of membership that you can obtain to see lower-level USFS competitions? (Whatever happened to that?) However, IMO the price is outrageous.

There are the skaters on top that aren't medallists or Olympians. Then there are the up-and-coming skaters. Which category is this thread really about? Just curious.

 

[Numbers Cruncher]

Non-Olympians

RD - I know, it's rather a drag that the fan base doesn't get to see those skaters coming up. The figure skating channel is pricy, I think it's 150 for the year, but you can buy individual events fairly cheap.

If you live near any of the major cities you can usually find some first rate skating at non-quals. The skaters use those to test themselves against others and to get seen by the judges. Also, look for regionals and sectionals, that's where you can sit for hours and watch the up and comers, including skaters like Bebe who sometimes have to re-qualify.

I see you are on the East coast, Jamestown, NY, Marlboro MA and Aston PA are hosting regionals this year and Eastern Sectionals will be in Alpharetta Georgia. There's also a non-qual called Liberty which is in Aston that's huge and very competitive, I would love to go see that one. I think most regionals and sectionals charge maybe $7 a day to attend, usually non-quals are free.

NC

 

[Mathman]

In fact, if you are lucky enough to live in a town with a major skating facility, you don't even have to go to sectionals and regionals to get all geeked up over the sport.

The best shows of all are the local club recitals, where you get to see everything from toddlers who have to be pushed around the ice by their coaches (be sure to sit next to a doting grandparent!), all the way up to the strong novice and junior skaters who are being primed for the big time (go Meryl Davis and Charlie White!)

MM

 

[Mathman]

About hype, I don't have any objection to the kind that celebrates actual achievement.

Kimmie won the world championship -- hooray, she's fantastic!

Mao won the Grand Prix final -- hooray, she's astonishing!

Yu-na Kim won junior worlds -- hooray, she's amazing!

I also have no objection to television spots that hype a particular contest. "Tune in next week, folks, for the amazing, stupendous, colossal showdown between world champion Kimmie Meissner, Grand Prix champion Mao Asada and junior world champion Yu-na Kim!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, that's the business of show business.

What I don't like so much is greeting every new face as the second coming of Sonia Henie. There is time enough for that in retrospect, after we see what they actually accomplish.

MM

 

[hockeyfan228]

What Mathman said.