- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Her layback spin getting all +3 is impressive since judges are very reluctant to give out +3 in GOE even to outstanding elements.
Bored by the Ladies and Pairs
- Thread starter Medusa
- Start date
Actually I'm quite impressive with Yukana's COR performance and Joannie's as well. on the contrast found Yu-na quite un inspired in her formance. Don't get me wrong, she looks good at her age. I have to give the maturaty of presentation to Joannie and Yukana. And I thought they covered the ice better than Yu-na, from what a little I could judge by tv screen. Yukana, leg wrapped jump not count, quit good, and besides she landed the 3a. I thought her PCS was hold back by judges.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
If I may play devil's advocate 
, I don't find pretty skating to familiar music boring at all.
I try to look at the sport from the perspective of the general public instead of that of skating enthusiasts. Where else do you get to hear Carmen except at a figure skating event?
It's like those old cartoons, where Buggs Bunny is leading the orchestra. For all us kids who never got to go to a symphony concert or ballet, that was the only time we ever got to hear those old classical war horses.
As for men and dance, what one person calls original and distinctive, another just thinks is bizarre.
, I don't find pretty skating to familiar music boring at all.I try to look at the sport from the perspective of the general public instead of that of skating enthusiasts. Where else do you get to hear Carmen except at a figure skating event?
It's like those old cartoons, where Buggs Bunny is leading the orchestra. For all us kids who never got to go to a symphony concert or ballet, that was the only time we ever got to hear those old classical war horses.
As for men and dance, what one person calls original and distinctive, another just thinks is bizarre.
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2007
hey, isn't that MY job?
is it just me or does anyone else think the pairs out there these days don't skate as fast as the pairs before them...Like I remember like Berezhnaya/Sikarulidze, and Gordeeva Grinkov being so fast and so light, but I feel like everything nowadays happens in slow mo, which isn't necessariy a bad thing I guess, but S/S for instances, really takes their time with everything....
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I remember Pairs from way back even before the Protopopovs (who btw, weren't all that speedy) and there was more than adequate speed back then, but they didn't have all those acrobatic tricks. In those days it was more like a Pas de Deux.
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Probably true. Every season the Met Opera schedules several Carmens. They make money fom the general public. Difficult to fill the house with Berg, Janecek and Britton. (however, the last 3 mentioned are more interesting to discuss, imo.)
I prefer Men lead in Dance wnd Women follow. It's old fashion but that's what I like. Not original.
Joe
I don't think any of the current top senior ladies have the whole package that we have come to expect from lady champions, but I think that's about to change.
My favorite (almost) senior lady so far this season is definitely Caroline Zhang, and I predict that when she and Mirai Nagasu are old enough to compete at Worlds, the ladies sport will get far more interesting again. Both ladies have the total package. They have a great rivalry that will elevate the sport in the same way as that of Debi & Katarina, Tara & Michelle, Sasha & Michelle, Sarah & Michelle...well, you get the picture.
My favorite (almost) senior lady so far this season is definitely Caroline Zhang, and I predict that when she and Mirai Nagasu are old enough to compete at Worlds, the ladies sport will get far more interesting again. Both ladies have the total package. They have a great rivalry that will elevate the sport in the same way as that of Debi & Katarina, Tara & Michelle, Sasha & Michelle, Sarah & Michelle...well, you get the picture.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
I am not sure what you are talking about? Are you saying Mao and Yuna don't have the whole package?? I think their skating skills are so amazing. Yuna's 3/3 is so beautiful and Mao's steps are so amazing. I think these two are better than what we ever had. Mao and Yuna definitely have the whole package. Has any lady with artistry ever had a 3/3 like Yuna's? or 3axel like Mao's? except for Midori Ito?? I don't know how people think Zhang and Nagasu got the whole package.. Maybe Nagasu(Nagasu needs to work on her jumps) but not Zhang. I am sorry but Zhang won't be able to jump once she go through the weight gain that happens to most of the girls around 17-18 with that jump technique. Look at what happened to Kimmie. I always thought Kimmie's jumps were kinda weird and she is loosing the ability to do those jumps.
I think some people feel like something is missing from the ladies competions because there is no US ladies condending for the gold at the moment. If Yuna and Mao were from the US, I am sure people would be raving how wonderful the ladies competiton has become!
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
Pardon me for continuing to ask in different threads, but I haven't received an answer yet:
Does anyone know the last time Mao landed a triple axel in competition?
Does anyone know the last time Mao landed a triple axel in competition?
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
Yup! Wait next year, when nagasu and zhang will be eligible for worlds, and everyone will be speaking about how interesting ladies figure skating has become once again.
i actually think this feeling is also due to kwan, slutskaya and cohen deprtures...A bit of nostalgia.
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- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
2007 worlds? should be...
Boring?! I think it has been the most interesting in years. At last year's worlds, the ladies were fabulous! :thumbsup: Both Yu-Na and Mao are such well-rounded skaters - good skating skills, jumps AND artistry. Miki and Kostner, when they're on, are very good skaters too. Yukari just keeps getting better and better. I think the ladies are more exciting now than they have previously.
As for pairs, I think S&S are in a class of their own, but I think both Chinese pairs are incredibly over-rated. S&S have the most interesting pairs choreography and moves that I've ever seen. Mukhortova and Trankov that have made such a turn around and I expect them to be contenders Euros and Worlds. Dubé and Davison have improved so much as well. And there are teams that are waiting in the wings...McLaughlin/Brubaker, Bazarova/Larionov, Zhang/Wang....It's not like it was in the days of Soviet pairs, but there's some good stuff out there.
As for pairs, I think S&S are in a class of their own, but I think both Chinese pairs are incredibly over-rated. S&S have the most interesting pairs choreography and moves that I've ever seen. Mukhortova and Trankov that have made such a turn around and I expect them to be contenders Euros and Worlds. Dubé and Davison have improved so much as well. And there are teams that are waiting in the wings...McLaughlin/Brubaker, Bazarova/Larionov, Zhang/Wang....It's not like it was in the days of Soviet pairs, but there's some good stuff out there.
Last time I remember was 2007 Worlds
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
I actually find the men's event to be the most boring. In fact, I couldn't even make it through the men's event at CoR this weekend. There aren't really any men's progams this season that stand out in my mind. While I agree that the laides aren't as interesting as they have been in the past, I certanly wouldn't call them boring. The last couple years I've found pairs to be the most exciting, but they seem to have fallen flat this season.
My assessment of the ladies has nothing to do with nationality. After all in the last decade, skaters from many countries have had the total package...Chen Lu, Michelle Kwan, Sarah Hughes, Sasha Cohen, Shizuka Arakawa...just to name a few. These athletes combined amazing technical feats with amazing artistry but I just don't see that (the total package) with the current top ladies (Kim, Asada, Meissner).
Yu Na Kim bores me to tears. She is far from the total package. She goes through her jumps (and other elements) on the ice in an expressionless, robotic manner. She does not appear to hear music. If the tape stopped during her skate, she would just continue checking off her elements in the same way, where as a truly musical performer, one who hears and expresses to music a la Zhang or Nagasu, would be totally thrown off (if the tape stopped).
Kim has choreography but she appears to think about it too much. It does not seem natural and most of it is just thrown away. She never holds a position long enough for the eye to see it. She skates with rounded shoulders and a rounded back, which detracts from her picture on the ice. When was the last time Yu Na Kim fully stretched out her free-leg or pointed her free foot or held her back up straight? These are the details that Zhang and Nagasu don't leave out.
Kim just goes from one element to the other...you can see her mind work: jump (check), jump (check), jump (check), spin (check), spiral - sloppy and not held long (check), jump (check), choreography (oops...was I supposed to do choreography?), jump (check), spin (check), footwork (check).... This is BORING. Where is the musicality? Where is the awareness of music and the use of the choreography to make artistic points. I don't see these qualities in Kim's skating but do see them in the skating of Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu.
Mao Asada is not much better than Yu Na Kim. Her skating is almost as blank, bland and expressionless as that of Kim, but Mao tries just a little bit harder than Kim does with holding her positions and creating beautiful, interesting pictures on the ice. Mao has worked a lot harder on her posture than Kim has. Mao has just a little more awareness of music, but compared to Nagasu and Zhang she just does not go far enough with the musicality and the performance aspect of the skating. Mao does not yet have the total package.
Kimmie seems to be trying the hardest of the top ladies to get the total package. Each year she challenges herself with interesting music and challenging choreography. You can really tell that she's trying to hear her music, trying to perfect those positions and extensions. She's trying really, really hard but it just has not happened yet. It just might by the time the next Olympic Games roll around.
Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu have musical expression, style and technique perfected. They are polishing (and adding to) their arsenal of jumps right now as juniors. They are already much more interesting and mature performance wise than any of the current top ladies. They have the total package of technique and artistry that we have come to expect from the top senior lady skaters.
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I guess to each their own, but I find that Mirai and Caroline have a long way to go in terms of catching up to Mao and Yu-Na. While Caroline does have nice positions, breathtaking spins and audience connection, she still doesn't have basic skating to the quality of Mao and Yu-Na's, and I certainly wouldn't hold her up as an example of good technique. Her interpretation is very one level. She lacks speed, power and personally, I find her jump technique more distracting than Yukari's wrap. I think Nagasu has more potential - better basics, more speed, nicer jumps and a more natural presentation. Both have struggled with under-rotation. Sure, both girls might be great in the future, but they still have a lot to achieve before they reach Mao or Yu-Na's level. And that's completely fine because they are so young and have time to improve.
For the record, I think that Mao has a lot of charisma. Yu-Na's SP at Worlds was FABULOUS, and she interpreted the music very well. And I find that her exhibition from Junior Worlds 06 to be sad and beautiful.
As for adding to their jump arsenal, Yu-Na just brought back her triple loop after a year of not having it. So she's adding to her jump arsenal as well.
For the record, I think that Mao has a lot of charisma. Yu-Na's SP at Worlds was FABULOUS, and she interpreted the music very well. And I find that her exhibition from Junior Worlds 06 to be sad and beautiful.
As for adding to their jump arsenal, Yu-Na just brought back her triple loop after a year of not having it. So she's adding to her jump arsenal as well.
Jump technique is only one aspect of skating technique. I agree that Caroline has a high kick going into her lutz and flip but she gets the job done. Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes had the same technique and it did not hold these Olympic Champions back at all.
Skating is about more than the technique of the lutz and flip (you may not like Zhang's kick but she does not get a deduction for it) and the kind of musical expression and the perfection of line and position, the SPINS, the spirals and the edge control that we see from Caroline Zhang, none of the top seniors can match it.
Skating is about more than the technique of the lutz and flip (you may not like Zhang's kick but she does not get a deduction for it) and the kind of musical expression and the perfection of line and position, the SPINS, the spirals and the edge control that we see from Caroline Zhang, none of the top seniors can match it.
Caroline and Mao both flutz badly and get deductions for it. Kimmie lips and she gets deductions for it. Miki has received deductions for lips, and in trying to correct that, she has messed up the timing on her lutz, so she can no longer do the 3Z+3L that earned her such high SP marks in the past.
Yu-Na neither flutzes nor lips.
Yu-Na neither flutzes nor lips.
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