Bored by the Ladies and Pairs

[oleada]

Well, not only are does Zhang have an ugly kick to her jumps, they are also quite small - and I'm not talking about just her flip or lutz, but also other jumps like her double axel. The ina bauer entry to her double axel in her SP is lovely, but her double axel is so tiny, it just makes the whole thing look ugly. She's also prone to under rotating her jumps. She's very small now, but once she goes through puberty, I do question whether her jumps will hold up.

I disagree that she has great edge control. Her basics are OK. Not good, not great. She needs to work on her edging and speed. They are far below Mao (who skates like she's floating above the ice), Yu-Na and a notch below Mirai.

Musical expression - again, I don't think she's that great at it. Her expression tends to be one-note, and she tends to skate to the same type of music. However, she's improved on it this season, so kudos. I think Nagasu has more natural musicality, and is less affected. Yu-Na is also better at expressing the music, like her tango SP last season.

I do agree that she has beautiful line, spins (probably the best in the world) and spirals.

 

[layman]

Yu-Na neither flutzes nor lips.

But she can't hold her back up straight.

There ought to be a deduction for that. Even if there is not, it still makes an ugly picture on the ice. It's not the kind of perfection of posture, line and position that we have come to expect from the top seniors.

 

[Mafke]

Skating is about more than the technique of the lutz and flip (you may not like Zhang's kick but she does not get a deduction for it)

But the mulekick (together with the octopus arms) seem to be an integral part of her 'technique' which involves massive pre-rotation which leads to underrotation which she's gotten dinged for (and that will only get worse). Zhang's presentation skills are obvious and to be admired, but her jumping technique is deeply flawed at present and needs a major overhaul.

Nagasu is a lot more juniorish in presentation (though still better than many seniors) and seems to have somewhat better jump technique (though she still needs work too) though who knows what will happen as her body matures.

 

[chuckm]

But she can't hold her back up straight.

There ought to be a deduction for that. Even if there is not, it still makes an ugly picture on the ice. It's not the kind of perfection of posture, line and position that we have come to expect from the top seniors.

Yu-Na has a serious chronic back injury. That may be why she can't hold her back up straight.

Irina used to hunch over while stroking, and no one called her on it. She won 2 World titles, numerous GPF and Euro titles despite her hunched posture.

Sarah Hughes also had hunched posture, and it didn't keep her from winning the OGM.

 

[layman]

Yu-Na has a serious chronic back injury. That may be why she can't hold her back up straight.

Irina used to hunch over while stroking, and no one called her on it. She won 2 World titles, numerous GPF and Euro titles despite her hunched posture.

Sarah Hughes also had hunched posture, and it didn't keep her from winning the OGM.

Sasha Cohen had a couple of serious back injuries too but she never used them as an excuse for poor posture.

Irina was called on her awful posture constantly. That's all Dick and Peggy talked about for something like ten years.

Sarah Hughes had beautiful posture, which she refined year after year culminating in her Olympic win. She had the total package.

 

[oleada]

Sarah Hughes had beautiful posture, which she refined year after year culminating in her Olympic win. She had the total package.

Are we even watching the same skater?

 

[chuckm]

Sarah had hunched shoulders right from the time she was 13. She improved her posture some as the years went on, but she never did stand up straight.

We all know that layman is a BIG Sarah Hughes fan, so you can understand why he sees her in retrospect through rose-colored lenses.

 

[fourclover]

Are we even watching the same skater?

 

[fourclover]

But she can't hold her back up straight.

There ought to be a deduction for that. Even if there is not, it still makes an ugly picture on the ice. It's not the kind of perfection of posture, line and position that we have come to expect from the top seniors.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think Yu-na's lines are the most beautiful in the field and her posture when she's stroking the ice, most natural with good speed and flow. I find the postures of Kristi Yamaguchi, Kimmie Meissner and Caroline Zhang (to some extent) ugly with their butts protruding back while their upper bodies are bent forward.

 

[Bennett]

I find the postures of Kristi Yamaguchi, Kimmie Meissner and Caroline Zhang (to some extent) ugly with their butts protruding back while their upper bodies are bent forward.

Although I don't find any of these ladies' postures ugly, I agree that they do have such a posture--esp. Kristi--and I personally prefer a posture that is more straight up. In Caroline's case, I think it may be because her back is SO flexible that it may be a bit hard to keep it straight with her knees bending. But if she could build more muscles in her back and stomach areas as her body matures, it may perhaps change.

 

[mizu_iro]

Yu-Na could stand to improve her posture...but Sarah Hughes have better posture than her? Sarah had Caroline's mule-kick, Yu-Na's hunched shoulders, and Mao's monster flutz all in one. Yes, a truly complete package.

Chen Lu's programs from 1992 to 1998 are all classics in my book but let's be honest, she was a terrible spinner. I love Sasha, but her over-the-top-dramatic style isn't universally loved, and she's always had terrible edge control on her lutz and flip (flutz and lip?) Shizuka didn't come into her own until she was well into her 20's, she was a lipper, and in retrospect her spins were neither beautiful nor fast. All of them had glaring faults, and honestly they never fixed any of them.

I think that Yu-Na relies on her long arms and legs to hide a lot of her breaks in line, and so the lack of balletic stretch doesn't hurt her too badly. In Irina's case, it was probably her sheer power and energy when she was at her peak. Although they both have posture issues, I think their presentation as a whole is still world-class.

 

[Bennett]

I think that Yu-Na relies on her long arms and legs to hide a lot of her breaks in line, and so the lack of balletic stretch doesn't hurt her too badly.

I agree that having a skinnier body in general helps the line. Speaking about body line and posture, Miki's posture didn't bother me too much when she was yonuger. I wonder if she had a better posture then or it was an impression made by her skinnier body line, or any injury in her back may be affecting her posture now. I had an impression that she had a longer neck at that time, which now seems to be a bit buried in her shoulders. I wonder if she stretched and lifted her head up at that time, or she has gained more muscles on her shoulders or it's all due to injuries.

Mao has a long neck, which seems to be an advantage for the better line.

 

[mizu_iro]

I agree that having a skinnier body in general helps the line. Speaking about body line and posture, Miki's posture didn't bother me too much when she was yonuger. I wonder if she had a better posture then or it was an impression made by her skinnier body line, or any injury in her back may be affecting her posture now. I had an impression that she had a longer neck at that time, which now seems to be a bit buried in her shoulders. I wonder if she stretched and lifted her head up at that time, or she has gained more muscles on her shoulders or it's all due to injuries.

I've noticed that too - Miki's early junior programs seem to showcase much better line. I think it has more to do with the fact that she started to hunch her back at some point, and it's only gotten worse with time.

 

[Bennett]

I've noticed that too - Miki's early junior programs seem to showcase much better line. I think it has more to do with the fact that she started to hunch her back at some point, and it's only gotten worse with time.

I see. But I hear some people comment that her posture has gotten somewhat better than the last season. I hope that it gets better again

 

[mizu_iro]

I see. But I hear some people comment that her posture has gotten somewhat better than the last season. I hope that it gets better again

I haven't seen NHK, but it did seem better at the Counter Match over the summer. I hope that it does improve - she's such a gorgeous woman, and it'd be nice if she had gorgeous skating to go along with the looks and jumps.

 

[Bennett]

I haven't seen NHK, but it did seem better at the Counter Match over the summer. I hope that it does improve - she's such a gorgeous woman, and it'd be nice if she had gorgeous skating to go along with the looks and jumps.

So true. I trust that Morosov, the former ice dancer, can help her out with her posture and arms. She seems to be working on her arms as well. Although I was dissapointed that I couldn't see much improvement either in SA or in NHK, I hope that we can see the difference in the next seasons to come:agree:

 

[oleada]

I think the stretch in Miki's spiral is so much better this year. It's a shame that her skating hasn't been up to par with what it was last year. But I have hope that she'll regroup for Nationals and Worlds.

 

[Bennett]

I think the stretch in Miki's spiral is so much better this year.

That's nice to hear. I haven't notice that.

 

[layman]

Yu-Na could stand to improve her posture...but Sarah Hughes have better posture than her? Sarah had Caroline's mule-kick, ...

The "mule-kick" is actually a pretty position. It's an arabesque or back spiral position that comes straight from the ballet stage. To achieve that position, one has the fully stretch and extend the line of the free-leg.

When was the last time that Yu Na Kim fully stretched and extended her free-leg? When was the first time for that matter?

 

[slutskayafan21]

Sarah Hughes had beautiful posture, which she refined year after year culminating in her Olympic win. She had the total package.

Good one.