Caroline Zhang-Her Future?
- Thread starter Jammers
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
I admire Caroline Zhang for having the «gut» to showing at Skate America even if she was not prepared for this event, she have try at least...
If, she would have not showing and call a withdraw, nobody would make a threads like this.
Seriously, why are we create a threads for bashing her ?
Yes, we know that her chance to make the Olympic team is low, but at least she have the right to try and competed at nationals for a last times, no matter what results she would get, I think that she doesn't need to retire now.
She can improve and make a try for her last national.
* She could be such better than what she is, I think mainly her main problem is probably because she doesn't have enought money support to pay a good choreography and good off ice training. If she would have this, she would probably be better because we know that she is a hard worker.
My message for her would be : Don't give up Caroline, and give it a last try!
If, she would have not showing and call a withdraw, nobody would make a threads like this.
Seriously, why are we create a threads for bashing her ?
Yes, we know that her chance to make the Olympic team is low, but at least she have the right to try and competed at nationals for a last times, no matter what results she would get, I think that she doesn't need to retire now.
She can improve and make a try for her last national.
* She could be such better than what she is, I think mainly her main problem is probably because she doesn't have enought money support to pay a good choreography and good off ice training. If she would have this, she would probably be better because we know that she is a hard worker.
My message for her would be : Don't give up Caroline, and give it a last try!
This is so sad. She's a lovely person and has at some times been a wonderful skater, but she seems to be losing ground by the year. I agree that she isn't likely to make a podium again, which stings because for a few years, she had among the best international standings of any American lady. I hate to make suggestions about if or when someone should bow out, though. If she isn't good enough, I'm sure she'll be passed over for future spots, so the matter will take care of itself.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Don't you think it's possible that she had a boot problem? Even on Friday she was landing triples, although underrotated.
Caroline shouldn't have been given the Skate America spot. Even when she lands her jumps, she doesn't have the technique or skating skills to be competitive on the international level. She got away with poor technique before puberty hit, but she cannot do the jumps with her new frame. She has even lost her flexibility. She can't do the pearl or Biellmann in her layback spin anymore. She doesn't have the skills, so she should not be given international assignments (she may even have a hard time qualifying for Nationals at Sectionals in her current condition.)
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
As long as Rachel Flatt gets assignments, Caroline should. However, I have stated repeatedly that I think Courtney deserved the SA spot far more than Caroline. I think Zhang should be competing at Senior B's.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2009
Agree. She shouldn't have received any international assignments this year, she no longer has the skating ability of even a championship US Intermediate or Novice level skater.
Disagree, as long as Rachael can at least hold her own and with current skating ability, acquit herself well on the ice and show a reasonable array of Sr level skills. By all accounts of those that have seen her, she can. Nobody expects her to be at a level anymore that can win a US Championship, but that still leaves a lot of room for some quality skating, particularly at Senior B type of competitions. And as we have seen in the past, Rachael is a good competitor and a fighter. Caroline simply isn't. Caroline should not even be getting Senior B's. I will agree that Courtney Hicks would have been a much better entrant here, as many on this forum have pointed out before. Courtney may yet end up with a second GP, the way the injuries are rolling out.
Back to Caroline: IMO she should quit competitive skating, effective immediately. It's now become painfully apparent that USFS funding is a waste on her, and if she needs to take somebody else's cash (i.e. parents) for no visible results, it's time to call it quits and find something more productive to do with her life.
Some of these comments are harsh. Maybe Caroline has recent injuries or boot problems. It's not a given that when you compete, things are going to go right. That is why you compete! If she likes skating and wants to do better than she did today, she absolutely should continue competing. Your goals don't always have to be medals.
I did think it was odd that she given the assignment over Courtney though.
I did think it was odd that she given the assignment over Courtney though.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
It is sad to see a skater who had so much promise not realize it - especially if it is in part or all money. I think if we were to be fair if we encourage Alissa we shold encourage Caroline; I am not sure how Alissa gets away with so much less scrutiny than Flatt and Zhang. She should have known her limitations andi njuries at world's two years ago and yet Flatt got bashed and fined. Zhang sadly has had problems witht he mule kikc but to lose her spins is so sad. Does anyone know what is the problem - is it her body now or what. How did she lose that flexibility.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
I don't think she should quit now. She should at least finish the season, even if it doesn't go ideally. She may be able to pull it together and deliver a decent performance at Nationals, even though she probably won't make the Olympics. Go out on a good note, right?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
I don't think she should quit now. She should at least finish the season, even if it doesn't go ideally. She may be able to pull it together and deliver a decent performance at Nationals, even though she probably won't make the Olympics. Go out on a good note, right?
Exactly, everyone, should just stop to be harsh with her.
Let's her doing what she wants and be supportive regardless her decision.
It's not an easy sport figure skating, there is a lot of low and high in a career.
To say now that she is out from the Olympic team is really nasty. We cannot predict the future.
She knows what she needs to do now. Let's be positive and maybe she can surprise us at the national
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2013
Omg I just want to cry when I see her skate. At least she seems faster. It's such a shame. She was so good when she was young. She gained a lot of weight. You can tell she is injured. She was in pain after that skate, almost tearing up. In her last spin, she couldn't even pull her leg up. I think the only reason why she did Skate America and didn't withdraw was because if she did, she would have to do Regionals and god knows she wont make it to Nationals with that skate. I really wish she would skate her best and show everyone that she is still the 13 year old that won everyone's hearts. Somehow I am just rooting for her... .. so sad ..... but I think she will end skating after the end of this season....
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Okay now we are getting ridiculous. She popped some jumps but the speed had improved. I just don't understand why this over hatred on her and yet so much "forgiveness" and slack given for Alissa it just doesn't make sense. She should do what she wants to do. Maybe we should tell Evan to retire too because he is taking up the spotlight when it could go to someone else more "deserving" (I know in the eye of the beholder).
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
They're holding out hope because she did have a good 2011-12 season.
It's funny how back when Caroline was winning medals at National's and at GP's, she was getting no love from USFSA: she was regularly scored lower at National's than at international comps, she kept on getting sent back to JW (twice) after winning it, she didn't get SA for two seasons after her debut one despite medaling at National's. I know in part it's because USFSA wants to spread the wealth, but other National's medalists like Ashley, Flatt, and Mirai were regularly being invited to SA at the time.
Ironically, it wasn't until her placing started to seriously drop at National's (11th and 12th) that USFAS started inviting her to SA. It's almost like USFSA is doing atonement for their earlier snubbing, but it's a matter of too little, too late. I think in Caroline's case, she got little constructive feedback from USFSA (e.g. on matters on nutrition, coaching, choreography) during some critical years, and her confidence was constantly being undermined by USFSA and by a judging system that got very draconian at punishing her weaknesses all of a sudden (i.e. UR's) and de-emphasized things that were her strength (dropping spiral sequences and dropping a spin) at a time when she was going through a growth spurt and was most prone to them (IJS has significantly reduced the penalty for UR's since then; she was extremely unlucky with her timing in terms of career development).
I think one reason she might be getting much more love from USFSA these days than the olden days when she was actually doing much better competitively, might be because her current coaches have much more sway with USFSA than Mingzhu Li did. I didn't have the feeling that Li had any clout at all, whereas Peter Oppegard complained very publicly about her 3R-3R getting UR call at National's last year. Li didn't even complain that time when the tech panel entered a wrong (lower) value at National's, and thus causing Caroline a placement, and possibly a trip to the WC. Or at least if she did complain, it was very quietly done and we never heard anything of it. I would not be surprised if Caroline got SA this year in large part due to Peter Oppegard, both by reminding USFSA of its past wrongs, and by trumpeting Caroline's improvements earlier in the summer.
And you know, Caroline probably was in very good shape earlier in the year. She posted some personal photos on FB that showed she was very fit, the thinnest she has been post puberty. From looking at Caroline on and off the ice these last few years, and this is entirely my personal opinion (I don't mean to spread any rumors), it seems her weight has fluctuated drastically very quickly. She could well be suffering from some kind of eating disorder, which could be causing havoc with her training, fitness, mental health, etc. Given how successful she was at a young age, and how the rug was suddenly pulled out from under her in terms of the judging system, in terms of how her coach left her (Mingzhu Li) to coach the Chinese national team, and in terms of her own body changes (which exacerbated her technical deficiencies), she may well have felt like she needed to keep something under her control to stay sane...
Ironically, it wasn't until her placing started to seriously drop at National's (11th and 12th) that USFAS started inviting her to SA. It's almost like USFSA is doing atonement for their earlier snubbing, but it's a matter of too little, too late. I think in Caroline's case, she got little constructive feedback from USFSA (e.g. on matters on nutrition, coaching, choreography) during some critical years, and her confidence was constantly being undermined by USFSA and by a judging system that got very draconian at punishing her weaknesses all of a sudden (i.e. UR's) and de-emphasized things that were her strength (dropping spiral sequences and dropping a spin) at a time when she was going through a growth spurt and was most prone to them (IJS has significantly reduced the penalty for UR's since then; she was extremely unlucky with her timing in terms of career development).
I think one reason she might be getting much more love from USFSA these days than the olden days when she was actually doing much better competitively, might be because her current coaches have much more sway with USFSA than Mingzhu Li did. I didn't have the feeling that Li had any clout at all, whereas Peter Oppegard complained very publicly about her 3R-3R getting UR call at National's last year. Li didn't even complain that time when the tech panel entered a wrong (lower) value at National's, and thus causing Caroline a placement, and possibly a trip to the WC. Or at least if she did complain, it was very quietly done and we never heard anything of it. I would not be surprised if Caroline got SA this year in large part due to Peter Oppegard, both by reminding USFSA of its past wrongs, and by trumpeting Caroline's improvements earlier in the summer.
And you know, Caroline probably was in very good shape earlier in the year. She posted some personal photos on FB that showed she was very fit, the thinnest she has been post puberty. From looking at Caroline on and off the ice these last few years, and this is entirely my personal opinion (I don't mean to spread any rumors), it seems her weight has fluctuated drastically very quickly. She could well be suffering from some kind of eating disorder, which could be causing havoc with her training, fitness, mental health, etc. Given how successful she was at a young age, and how the rug was suddenly pulled out from under her in terms of the judging system, in terms of how her coach left her (Mingzhu Li) to coach the Chinese national team, and in terms of her own body changes (which exacerbated her technical deficiencies), she may well have felt like she needed to keep something under her control to stay sane...
USFS should be ashamed of themselves for not monitoring her properly and not assigning this spot to Hicks instead.
Flatt landed 3 clean triples at Regionals. Zhang landed 0 clean triples at SA.
Flatt landed 3 clean triples at Regionals. Zhang landed 0 clean triples at SA.
I just had to jump in to correct, Ashley was never invited to Skate America until after she won Nats in 2012.
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