Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16 | Page 40 | Golden Skate

Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

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well since he can land 4L, maybe it's time for him to do 3L after one of these jumps LOL ;)
No, he wouldn't be able to add another 3T. That's why for example at WTT, after he popped his quad into a 3T, he changed his 3A3T into a 3A2T. Because he was already repeating the 3Lz and the 3A, so if he had done a 3A3T the combo would have been invalid as it would be the third jump he had repeated.
With this layout it's either a 4T2T and 3A3T or 4T3T and 3A2T. He can only have one 3T in the program.
Edit: Oops, took too long to answer :biggrin:
 
In his free he is not doing 4T3T because the quad combo is in 2nd half, so it's very tiring itself to land that quad and add triple right after that is just too much effort I guess to take a little rest before triple axels.

I short I guess he will be doing it next season along with 4S at beginning
 
It's difficult to predict something with these two. But I think they will be very close this season. Those 4 points difference from the FS (let's just forget about SP:drama: ) aren't much considering the fact that on a good day Yuzu gets 90-91 pcs (yesterday he looks tired..88 was ok, even better than I expected). Also, he usually doesn't single the axel there. I won't talk about the fall, because there is usually a fall:laugh: I just hope he'll land all 3 quads as much as possible.

But I love that Patrick showed Yuzu that if he wants to beat him this year, he has to be clean (or at least with only one mistake).

I also wait to see Javi, but so far the season looks great:gclap:
 
i'd rather have him not do a 3T after the 3A ;) and just flow out of it on a very long lasting edge

I also miss one of his Triple Axels in the LP not being in combo. I'd love to see this from him:

4Loop
4Toe
3Flip
----
4Sal
3Lutz+3Toe
3Axel+1Loop+3Sal
3Loop+3Toe
3Axel

:drama:

Most points and aesthetically most pleasing at the same time. Leave it up to Hanyu to plan 3Axel as the last jump of the program...and succeed at it. Incidentally, it would also probably work out ideally for his muscle memory too - doing 4Sal and 3Lutz+3Toe after the halfway point in both the SP and LP.
 
I also miss one of his Triple Axels in the LP not being in combo. I'd love to see this from him:

4Loop
4Toe
3Flip
----
4Sal
3Lutz+3Toe
3Axel+1Loop+3Sal
3Loop+3Toe
3Axel

:drama:

Most points and aesthetically most pleasing at the same time. Leave it up to Hanyu to plan 3Axel as the last jump of the program...and succeed at it. Incidentally, it would also probably work out ideally for his muscle memory too - doing 4Sal and 3Lutz+3Toe after the halfway point in both the SP and LP.


I would not like him to rush into 3 diffrent quads too fast. Time to keep 4sal consistent. I wonder what they did it with that in just short time from ice cleaner it became money jump :biggrin:
Anyway can't wait to see Hanyu in GPF nailing this program fully
 
Another fun point - with the above layout, 7 out of 8 of his jumping passes would feasibly be able to score at least 11 points each. What kind of overwhelming protocol sheet? :drama:
 
Another fun point - with the above layout, 7 out of 8 of his jumping passes would feasibly be able to score at least 11 points each. What kind of overwhelming protocol sheet? :drama:

What I like that this program is not just about jumping this 3 quads but he has linking moves to all of his jumping passes in and out

Difficulty of this program is insane
 
Hanyu's jump content is very demanding physically already, it might not be wise to make it even more difficult. And maybe he should move one of his 2nd half jumping passes into the first half. When he lands everything he doesn't need the 10% bonus for 5 jumping passes. The 3A combos in the 2nd half set him apart, he doesn't need the 10% bonus for the 3Lz. And I really like the 3F out of nowhere in the first half.
Hanyu's FS is the best program he ever had in my opinion. He kind of looks like a japanese anime fighter. Love it. And I can't remember Chan being better than he was in that FS yesterday.
Now we know that Chan vs. Hanyu will be really tight this season. If Chan goes almost clean Hanyu has to do that as well. I would love to see Hanyu doing two quads in the short, maybe Chan will force him to do that.
 
I also miss one of his Triple Axels in the LP not being in combo. I'd love to see this from him:

4Loop
4Toe
3Flip
----
4Sal
3Lutz+3Toe
3Axel+1Loop+3Sal
3Loop+3Toe
3Axel

:drama:

Most points and aesthetically most pleasing at the same time. Leave it up to Hanyu to plan 3Axel as the last jump of the program...and succeed at it. Incidentally, it would also probably work out ideally for his muscle memory too - doing 4Sal and 3Lutz+3Toe after the halfway point in both the SP and LP.

Since he wants to go for 2 quads in the SP by 2018... no, no 3Lz-3T anymore. And I'd rather not have him go for a 3Lz combination of any form, especially not later in the program. Then I'd rather have:

4Lo
4T-3T
3F
-----
4S
3Lz
3A-Lo-3S
3Lo-3T
3A

But I don't see him doing a 3Lo-3T either.
 
Since he wants to go for 2 quads in the SP by 2018... no, no 3Lz-3T anymore.

Glad to hear he wants to do that. I guess he will be trying to open his SP with 4Toe+3Toe next season, then. I'm disappointed that Fernandez didn't already start trying to do it. Both of his quads have been consistent for awhile.
 
Glad to hear he wants to do that. I guess he will be trying to open his SP with 4Toe+3Toe next season, then. I'm disappointed that Fernandez didn't already start trying to do it. Both of his quads have been consistent for awhile.


I think Hanyu SP layout will be

4S

---
4T3T
3A


That's why he is doing 2nd half quad
 
Skating clean and skating well and clean are two different things. Eg Hanyu was "clean" at 2014 worlds FS but wasn't perfect,

I think that's actually the greatest advantage that Patrick has over Yuzu in the freeskate. Yesterday free programm really showed that: Yuzuru was nearly clean and had a much higher base value than Patrick, but his technical element were nowhere near his usual quality and while that skate could beat nearly all of his competitor a near perfect Patrick was able to close the gap between them (and rightfully even though as a massive Yuzuru fan it pains me to say so).

Disclaimer: In the following reflession/rant I'm only talking about LONG PROGRAMMS, not short

So why I'm saying that this is Chan greatest advantage over Hanyu? because I feel that right now between the two he is the one that has more probability of nearing that 100% perfect skate multiple times: in his career he has skated nearly perfectly (cleanliness,quality of the elements, quality of the skate) multiple times (out of the top of my mind 2013 teb, 2011 worlds, 2012 4cc and nationals) and another few time at like 90% (yesterday, 2013 gpf) while IMO Yuzu reached that nearly perfect performances only once during 2012 worlds (yeah there was that fluke fall after the step sequence, but I would argue it actually enhanced the dramatic magic of that performance). The only other time he was close was at last year WTT but he popped a quad... Apart from that two time he often skated nearly at the top of his ability, but he always fell short: or the quality wasn't really there (2014 worlds, 2012 Nationals) or an error marred an otherwise perfect skate (2013 and 2014 Gpf).

The thing is that Hanyu can't stay put, he always need to try to exceed his limits, so his chance of errors its bigger than that of Patrick.
But, and I don't mean this as a diss to Chan, IMO this competition also showed us that while Patrick skated brilliantly he also is very vulnerable, even when he is perfect: their maximum potential scoring is too much different!! If Patrick skated perfectly he could maybe aspire at a ~200 points free program (102 tes, 98 pcs), if (and I know it's a big IF) Yuzu skated in competition as he skated during skate canada practice I wouldn't be surprised if he broke the 210 barrier(115 tes and 95 pcs).

So what I wanted to say with this post? I don't really know, maybe that I think that the medal chase between the two of them it's wide open. But I'm sure of a thing: we're lucky to be able to assist to the spectacle of two of the greater skater of all time going all out to up stage each other (and let's not forget the numerous pretender like Ten and Javier, and the rising stars like Uno or Brown or Farris). And honestly instead of bickering on who is better at what, can't we simply accept that they have chosen two different route to reach the top and that other people may think differently about what approach is best for the advancement of the sport?:cheer:
 
Talk about Deja vu.. Karma... and all those creepy Halloween eve feelings... Pooh has turned into a mean pumpkin head.

They do bring out the worst of each other don't they? What a way to compete. :think:

Just HAVE to take back everything I wrote above. Gladly. Humbly.

These two are phenomenal and their head to head was surreal.... totally amazing, astounding in their own spectacular way.

May be it was the Onmyoji effect, which is basically YIN YANG Master in translation. Freaky Friday was totally YIN (Dark, cloudy and supernatural), Holloween Saturday was totally YANG (Light, brightness, hope). These two days could not be more starker in contrasts and complete opposites. Interdependent according to the natural world order of things like the opposing forces of Yin and Yang.

When has Patrick skated this good with such calm and command, and even grace? Long time over due? Selfishly, I have stated I'd love him to have that Yuna Kim WC2013 great comeback moment, and he really delivered that. Majestic... total redemption, and hope he managed to cleansed all those demons away from the Olympics blunder.

How about Hanyu with 3 quads? Seimei? I can see through the improvements and greater attention to detail that the program is a labour of love. I really like the assurance and the positions he manage to hit with the drums. I'd say its potential is soon to be fulfilled had it not been the circumstance and pressure Hanyu had to deliver after that disaster short. Only a hands down and one fall with such incredible tech content, better than anything he did last year and at the Olympics. However, it is one of those programs he must fully embody the concept/character as if he can overcame any supernatural forces easily and effortlessly, while enthrall the audience with his wizardry for the impression to work. Particularly following the procession beat of the music he must exude confidence and command; but last night it felt like he was the head apprentice having an exam chasing for points in order to pass a trial than the master. Not able to defeat big boss probably added that impression to those who follows Japanese Anime/Game fans. This is not to say Hanyu wouldn't become the master next time round... at some point like how he settled into Romeo and Juliet Version 1 program... he will bring that Hanyu signature attack with ease and wild abandonment that is so unique and perfect for this type of program. It will be something amazing and magical to look forward to. I fully believe he will able to achieve that.

Together they really elevated the entire field last night. Everyone in the top 8 had one of the best skating moments of their lives. What a great evening for skating. Daisuke should be very proud of himself able to stand on the podium with these 2 at their bests.

As much as Patrick had skate the lights out, lets not even pretend IF Hanyu had landed everything, Hanyu wouldn't run away with the score. Much of Patrick's best quality is undervalued under COP (but something would be well valued if PCS is judged according to stated criteria). Many of his distractors just narrow his best qualities down to skating skills, but it is really much more work than that and should be worth more than a difference of something like 9.5 vs 9.0 The 0.5 differential is practically negligible and nonsense consider the years of efforts and development to get to that stage. People keep talking about his blade, but for me it is watching his entire body moves with the ice and flows with the music as one, accentuate the music as if second nature, balanced and complete in synchronicity, as natural as breathing, or one long breath. Virtuosity requires everything done as effortless and seamless as possible, it is in the detail, nuance and refinement, even his spin took on musicality of itself and that's the sign of someone who grew to understand and appreciate how things should be. Look how his upper body and the angles he make as extension of his deep edges, and lines and ease he achieved with each movements. How solid he is centered like a Taichi master with a powerful core.

Criticism has been thrown at him for not being enough of a dancer, I'd say so what... he is a figure skater... see the unique motion, speed, ease he can create on ice that a dancer can never hope to achieve on the ground. That is what makes this sport unique and fascinating, it is about human potentials overcoming physical and elemental forces. Otherwise I'd just goto Sadler's Wells for much better dancing performances than I can ever hope to receive from this sport.
 
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I have never seen patrick skate that well. Usually you can count on an error from him, so that was amazing. I dont think he can really improve that program, other than doing the 2nd quad. Performance wise, it was probably as good as he can do it too, because he's not really an emotional skater. His heart isn't visibly on his sleeve. His presence makes everyone else better.

I am excited to see yuzu progress now. Knowing patrick is really back will push him because patrick has what the others do not, that amazing pcs. Yuzu was not his best, but he is an emotional skater who will perform that better as the season grows. Javi and denis are skaters he fights with, but usually if he skates well he will come out ahead. But, i think in his mind patrick is someone to chase and I think he does best when he is in that mind set.
 
For everyone who keeps asking when Hanyu will put together clean skates, I think it's much more difficult for Hanyu to skate cleanly than other skaters due to his insane tech content.
 
fair enough... so perhaps he needs to adjust and take out a quad? it's his decision to use this layout... like when people are talking about Adam and his "elusive" 4Lz... if he wants a clean program, he just needs to take it out ;)
For everyone who keeps asking when Hanyu will put together clean skates, I think it's much more difficult for Hanyu to skate cleanly than other skaters due to his insane tech content.
 
fair enough... so perhaps he needs to adjust and take out a quad? it's his decision to use this layout... like when people are talking about Adam and his "elusive" 4Lz... if he wants a clean program, he just needs to take it out ;)


I don't think he should take it out. Actually I think for this part of the season he did amazing. He never skated that strong so early, and usually was bombing his quads, and yet he landed 3 quads here in 1st real competition attempt. I thought it will take it time by GPF to land it, so I was a bit surprised he managed it. Just bring back his best quality trough season, make sure of landed 3A combo and lutz and it will be mighty :2thumbs:
 
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fair enough... so perhaps he needs to adjust and take out a quad? it's his decision to use this layout... like when people are talking about Adam and his "elusive" 4Lz... if he wants a clean program, he just needs to take it out ;)

It seems that Yuzuru wants to progress technically more than he wants clean performances, actually.

The aim is to train that layout for the Pyongchang Olympics. It's better to start now to see whether he can do it. At this point Yuzu has been skating a 3 quad LP in competition for... 1 month, as opposed to Adam's few years. He's probably willing to have falls but compete with it until he masters it, even if it takes a year or two. It was the same with his 4S: I believe even Brian Orser advised to leave it out when Yuzu couldn't land it in competition his first year and it took 3 seasons to actually master it but he did it. If at the end of 2016/17 season he still won't be turning in any clean perfromances, then it'll be the time to think of taking out one quad.
 
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For everyone who keeps asking when Hanyu will put together clean skates, I think it's much more difficult for Hanyu to skate cleanly than other skaters due to his insane tech content.

Skating clean is way overrated with the current scoring system. And even when Hanyu doesn't skate clean, he's still more exciting to watch than any other skater. When he hits his jumps, they really do look like they dropped from heaven. And his music for this year's FS is brilliant. This morning I watched the men's FS again with the British commentators and Nicky showered him with praise for his choice of music.
 
One of my favorite parts of his program is when he "stalks the judges", doing 3 simple forward steps while he stares them down (towards the beginning).
 
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