Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[Khoai]

I think Mr. Chan will do well at WC, he won't make mistake in the SP again.

However, Mr. Hanyu is on another level now.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Of course it's just Yuzu vs. Yuzu now. As for Patrick, if his goals are long-term, he should not be concerned about his recent results. I think his errors in the SP are mostly mental. Sure, his 3A needs work but he shouldn't be making these other mistakes. Same as the long program. He can do a 4T+3T so there's no reason why he can't just do another solo 4T, and he definitely has the ability to do a 4S I think. From now on, winning is going to depend on Yuzuru (based his scores, he has a multi-mistake buffer), but in terms of getting silver or making the podium period, he's definitely still competitive.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

So Chan skated his best and lost to SHOMA UNO, just out of juniors!

Yeah, because Chan messed up his SP, and because Shoma skated very well. As pointed out, if not for the costly Zayak error, Chan would have beaten Uno.

And I don't see what's the big deal about a junior-turned-senior winner when the ladies World silver medalist Miyahara skated her best and lost to Medvedeva "just out of juniors"! And seasoned seniors like Mao and Wagner ended up off the podium/last.

You're also conveniently forgetting Chan (like Mao) is just coming back after a year off the GP, whereas Uno hasn't had a year off.

Also, LMAO at the suggestion that you don't hate on anyone. I mean, come on.

 

[t.mann]

I think it's time to close this thread down. There is no "vs". There is just Hanyu. Then ranks 2-10 are "vs" each other.

Scorewise, yes.
But IMO Chan's 13TEB LP will stand the test of time more than Hanyu's brilliant LPs.
(Chan's 13TEB LP > Hanyu's 15NHK LP > Hanyu's 15GPF LP, for me.)
Chan's clean performances make me feel jealousy beyond admiration (which Hanyu's clean performances give).
I remember that even a legend Toller Cranston said he did not want to see Chan's skating due to jealousy. (though not accurate quote.)

 

[chuckm]

Scorewise, yes.
But IMO Chan's 13TEB LP will stand the test of time more than Hanyu's brilliant LPs.
(Chan's 13TEB LP > Hanyu's 15NHK LP > Hanyu's 15GPF LP, for me.)
Chan's clean performances make me feel jealousy beyond admiration which Hanyu's clean performances give.
I remember that even a legend Toller Cranston said he did not want to see Chan's skating due to jealousy. (though not accurate quote.)

Here was Chan's 2013 TEB FS:

196.75 100.25 96.50 9.57 9.39 9.86 9.64 9.79 0.00

4t+3t, 4t, 3a, 3z+1lo+3s, 3z, 3lo, 3f+2t, 2a

It was clean, yes. It got a good score, yes. In 2013, maybe it was special because not many men were doing clean programs with quads.

But this is 2015, and the ante has been upped. Many more men are doing programs with multiple quads, and some are doing clean or near-clean programs. Compared to Hanyu's brilliant 3-quad FS, Chan's 2013 program just isn't that special any more. Uno did a clean more difficult two-quad, two 3a program, and Fernandez did a near-clean 3-quad program.

BTW, that TEB FS in 2013 was the last time Chan completed a clean FS with two quads and a 3a.

And no, I don't hate anyone. What I do not much like is the Patrick Chan hyperbole expressed by his uberfans. I KNOW you all think he is the greatest skater who ever put on skates, but I just don't agree. He is an excellent skater, but he has his flaws.

IMO to say Chan's TEB 2013 FS performance is better than Hanyu's FS in the 2015 GPF is just ludicrous.

When dear Patrick can duplicate Hanyu's GPF 2015 performance and get a better score, then I will agree he is the greatest skater ever. But not before that.

 

[Ophelia]

^Chan really underestimated how much the technical demands of the sport grew and underestimated his competition. He's not a very strategic competitor, is he?

“The difficulty of the jumps now and how many quads are in the programs is really unreal. I didn’t expect that. What I find most challenging this year is actually just dealing with my own demons — putting expectations on myself, trying to please everyone. Maybe I need to start learning to please myself first.

“What was a surprise and what I didn’t expect and what I’m learning quickly is how big of a learning curve I was about to experience coming back into competition and on to the international stage.’’

However, if he ups his technical, he might be back in the game and we'll have Hanyu vs Chan part 2.

“Maybe the first time I saw the points gap it was shocking,” Chan admitted of his rival utterly demolishing records he’d established in this sport, when he was the nonpareil three-time world champion and before taking a year off.

“At the end of the day, he’s pretty much maxed out. What we see today, what we saw at NHK, that’s the best he can do. Whereas this is just my base and I’m building on it. I’m in a whole different strategy plan than he is. I’m not going to try and compare each other because I don’t think we’re on equal terms.’’

I’ll be honest,’’ said Chan. “It’s hard to catch him right now. He’s on a huge roll since NHK. How easy he’s been able to do those quads is quite impressive. A lot of men envy it. But there’s always another side to all skaters. We all have our strengths and weaknesses and we’re all human.

“It’s still a long, long way to the Olympic season, so we’ll see. You can’t predict anything. All I can do is put my head down and focus on myself. Maybe that means adding another quad or just adding another triple axel.”

http://www.thestar.com/sports/skati...eaver-andrew-poje-reign-in-spain-dimanno.html

 

[HanDomi]

Patrick better not say that Hanyu is maxed out. Quad loop still fights his way behind scenes to make competition debut
And well, just another 3A will not cover this huuuuuge points gap

 

[wookchub]

“At the end of the day, he’s pretty much maxed out. What we see today, what we saw at NHK, that’s the best he can do. Whereas this is just my base and I’m building on it.

Patrick's wording irks me so much here. Yuzuru isn't maxed out, he's still working on his step sequences in both programs. And also this may be very near the best Yuzuru can do with these two programs but by the time the olympics come around who knows what he'll have planned. He's going to have a lot more than two quads and two 3As considering he has more than that already, so Patrick sure does need to get his head down.

 

[Tavi...]

Here was Chan's 2013 TEB FS:

196.75 100.25 96.50 9.57 9.39 9.86 9.64 9.79 0.00

4t+3t, 4t, 3a, 3z+1lo+3s, 3z, 3lo, 3f+2t, 2a

It was clean, yes. It got a good score, yes. In 2013, maybe it was special because not many men were doing clean programs with quads.

But this is 2015, and the ante has been upped. Many more men are doing programs with multiple quads, and some are doing clean or near-clean programs. Compared to Hanyu's brilliant 3-quad FS, Chan's 2013 program just isn't that special any more. Uno did a clean more difficult two-quad, two 3a program, and Fernandez did a near-clean 3-quad program.

BTW, that TEB FS in 2013 was the last time Chan completed a clean FS with two quads and a 3a.

And no, I don't hate anyone. What I do not much like is the Patrick Chan hyperbole expressed by his uberfans. I KNOW you all think he is the greatest skater who ever put on skates, but I just don't agree. He is an excellent skater, but he has his flaws.

IMO to say Chan's TEB 2013 FS performance is better than Hanyu's FS in the 2015 GPF is just ludicrous.

When dear Patrick can duplicate Hanyu's GPF 2015 performance and get a better score, then I will agree he is the greatest skater ever. But not before that.

I happen to prefer Hanyu to Chan but it's a little silly to say a program or a skater is "special" based only on the number of quads the program includes. Hanyu's skates at NHK & GPF transcended the technical content as did Chan's at TEB. That's what made them special, IMO.

 

[treeloving]

“At the end of the day, he’s pretty much maxed out. What we see today, what we saw at NHK, that’s the best he can do. Whereas this is just my base and I’m building on it.

Patrick's wording irks me so much here. .

Agree! And he should acknowledge that his max out as of now is to have 2 quads toe and 2 triple axels in free program which is still a bit lower lever than Yuzuru in term of tes content. By the way, and he himself ,if I remember correctly, has never completed with that layout yet.

But , of course, Chan still has a lot of chance to win as Yuzuru can be inconsistent, and three quads are not some thing that can be easily and cleanly executed every time.

BTW, I honestly thought that this thread is already closed after NHK......

 

[wookchub]

Agree! And he should acknowledge that his max out as of now is to have 2 quads toe and 2 triple axels in free program which is still a bit lower lever than Yuzuru in term of tes content. By the way, and he himself ,if I remember correctly, has never completed with that layout yet.

and honestly, I sincerely thought that this thread is already closed after NHK......

I think he's pretty much clarified that his goal is the next olympics and he's using the time he has to gradually up his layout. I don't want to focus on his words too much, but I think it's been said here before that the difference in personality between Yuzuru and Patrick is truly night and day.

 

[chuckm]

Two quad toes and two 3As brings him up to where Uno is. But by 2018, Uno will probably have added 4s. Hanyu won't be Chan's only rival.

Chan's ruminations in that interview seem rather delusional if he thinks Hanyu is 'maxed out'. Hanyu will never max out because in his own philosophy, he is always looking for ways to improve. After NHK, all the naysayers said Hanyu could never duplicate those skates again, that next time he'd make mistakes. Then in the GPF, he actually skated both programs better than he had at NHK: smoother, with more ease, with more character[/].

If Chan is really thinking ahead towards the next Olympics, the time is very short and he has a lot to accomplish if he has any hope of catching up. He needs a technical coach ASAP.

 

[noskates]

Well, I for one want to see if Hanyu can maintain this perfection the rest of the season!

 

[alia jackson]

Well, I for one want to see if Hanyu can maintain this perfection the rest of the season!

Well, I for one no need for perfection every time. As long as he is satisfied with his skate, I'm good. If we get perfection it is a bonus. To me the most important is his health as there is so much more to life than competitive skating.

I'm sure you don't ask for perfection every time from Chan either or your favorite skaters, they are human being just like you and me.

 

[robredo40]

I think Chan will medal at worlds if he skates well both programs, but i don`t think he can beat Hanyu this year who`s on a whole different level, the thing with Chan is that he`s lazy and sometimes does not take his training seriously that`s why Christy left him he did not want to submit to her rigourous training methods.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

"Yuzu is maxed out" - oh, I'm trying, but I can't take that seriously.

We need to give Pat a calculator and a field glass to take a good look at the 4Lo. Please keep tempting fate Pat, that "I'll add a 2nd 4T and 3A, although I don't think I'll need it" comment worked so well for you

 

[wookchub]

Well, I for one want to see if Hanyu can maintain this perfection the rest of the season!

I would LOVE for Yuzuru to keep on churning out these beautiful performances. But I think GPF showed the immense pressure he's under to deliver every single time and that is an enormous burden to carry. I think if he has a slip no one will mind, and it could relieve the pressure to be perfect from here on out.

But of course I would love for him to be perfect from now until after 2018 :agree:

 

[Bonesfan]

I think Chan will medal at worlds if he skates well both programs, but i don`t think he can beat Hanyu this year who`s on a whole different level, the thing with Chan is that he`s lazy and sometimes does not take his training seriously that`s why Christy left him he did not want to submit to her rigourous training methods.

Wow - just wow. From Hanyu having "no transitions" to calling Chan lazy. :noshake:

 

[iceberg]

the artist vs the superhuman

id go for the artist by a million mile [emoji8][emoji120]

 

[FlattFan]

Chan is an odd bird, by all accounts. It's like a mild Tourette syndrome. I mean, we all say stupid stuff, but I'm very sure when a reporter come knocking, I would only have nice things to say about Ashley Wagner.
Anyway, Chan's best is 35 points below Hanyu's best. So unless he can add 2 more 4Fs into his program, once Hanyu skates a clean program, it's over for him, and everyone else.