WARNING: Long Annoying Post
Joesitz said:
I'm not the only one who does not see artistry in Irina's skating and I am not afraid to say that. I've been around ballet and dance too long. If you noticed her spirals are being held by the hand this year. This is a smart move to hide her legs which are not designed to stretch out a real spiral. She does have a great back bend to move her body acrobaticlly.
I think it depends on what one's opinion is of "artistry" is in skating. From what you've said, you tend to equate it with ballet or lyrical modern dance. But in both contemporary ballet and modern dance since its inception, all kinds of movement and styles of choreography have come under the definition of artistry. Elizibeth Streb's choreography is so athletic as to include no ballet or modern based movement at all, yet I would certainly call it both art and dance. I'd also call Cirque du Soleil art. To me it's like trying to define painting or sculpture as art according to the Greek and Renassaince masters. Obviously, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Of course philosophers have been arguing for thousands of years about what constitutes art, so somehow I doubt we'll figure out on GS
. Anyway, one of the things I like about the COP is that it takes "artistry" out of the judging. The component scores are broken down into specifics that can apply to any style, even what some people might see as "acrobatics."
Under the COP, I think a skater with a style like Tonya Harding can do just as well as a skater with a style (not necessarily technique) like Oksana Baiul, as long as the technical content and component abilities for each skater are comparable. I think this is a great thing. It gives muscular athletic skaters the same chance as willowy lyrical skaters, which I think is not only more fair, but also more enjoyable, at least for me. I think the COP does this as well as can be expected given the inevitable subjective nature of judges' reactions to various skaters' styles of movement and types of choreography.
As I've said before, I think Irina has the most expressive back and arms in ladies skating. This drives many skating fans nuts
, but that's how I see it. But with the COP, it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter if a judge feels that way, or on the other hand, doesn't like spirals done with the skater holding the free-leg skate. At COC, Irina's spiral sequence received a Level 3 score, which was only given out twice during last year's GP series: Once to Sasha during the SP at Trophee Lalique, which had been changed from her previous spiral sequence to include a change-edge manuever; and Shizuka during the GPF FP, when she too had changed her previous spiral sequence to include a change-edge move, even though Shizuka used skate-hold Beillman positions a la Irina.
For Irina's spiral sequence at COC, she did a change-edge on the first part (a FI-OE spiral), then, without stroking, changed to a BIE spiral. So it would seem that while the COP does consider amplitude of the free leg important for a Level 2, even if the leg is in the Biellmann position and held by the skate, apparently the crucial element in raising the spiral sequence to a Level 3 is speed and edging combined with the elements needed for a Level 2.
As for choreography and other component scores, I don't know that Irina was super-rewarded for her program, even though I agree with her win. Her Total Combined Score was 177. Last fall, Sasha scored a Total Combined Score of 197 for SA, SC, and TL. Obviously we can't make a direct comparison because of changes in the COP; better understanding on the part of the judges of how to evaluate the component elements; and I believe the technical specialists are doing a better job of identifying elements accurately. My point is, until the COP has been solid and in place for several years, I don't think we will be able to compare scores for individual skaters or between different skaters from one year to the next.
But if we do want to talk about artistry, I think Irina has an athletic artistry much the way Elvis Stojko did with his skating based primarily on martial arts. Sure, some programs are more successful than others, but the same goes for skaters of all styles.
Of course it would help if we had a definition for artistry.
Dictionary.com defines "artistry" in terms of something that is artistic, so I went to artist. Here are its three definitions:
1. Artist
a. One, such as a painter, sculptor, or writer, who is able by virtue of imagination and talent or skill to create works of aesthetic value, especially in the fine arts.
b. A person whose work shows exceptional creative ability or skill: You are an artist in the kitchen.
c. One, such as an actor or singer, who works in the performing arts.
d. One who is adept at an activity, especially one involving trickery or deceit: a con artist.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
2. Artist
a. One who practices some mechanic art or craft; an artisan. [Obs.]
b. One who professes and practices an art in which science and taste preside over the manual execution.
Note: The term is particularly applied to painters, sculptors, musicians, engravers, and architects. --Elmes.
c. One who shows trained skill or rare taste in any manual art or occupation. --Pope.
d. An artful person; a schemer. [Obs.]
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
3. Artist
A person whose creative work shows sensitivity and imagination.
I guess we can each take our pick.:banging:
Finally, I think defining skating artistry according to ballet and dance can put one in the difficult position of having to agree that Douglas Dunn dancing nude on Wall Street is included in the standard for artistry in figure skating.
Of course I think using dance as a standard for one's preferences in skaters is totally groovy. I just don't agree with using dance as a standard for judging skaters. JMO.
Rgirl
