Complete triple jumps for ladies minus the 3A

[Globetrotter]

Just a curious question. It seems to be rare for any lady skaters to have the full triple arsenal excepting the 3A. By full arsenal, I mean being able to rotate and land the 3T, 3S, 3R, 3F n 3Lz without edge issues are UR. At present, I can think of only Tuktamysheva and perhaps Radionova who can do them. Why is the edge issue on lutz so much of an issue? In contrast, male skaters tend to have more flip problems. I realize it is actually very rare for a lady to have all 5 triples without significant edge or UR issues.

Complete triple jump ladies: Caro Kostner, Maria Butyrskaya, Yuna Kim (b4 she stopped doing 3R)
Near complete: Kwan + Slutskaya (3Lz!). Ironically, Kwan's strongest jump 3T will be Slutskaya's worst and Slutskaya's favorite 3R will be Kwan's wonkiest.
Queen of jumps: Midori Ito, Tonya Harding - they had everything including 3A! Not much of edge issues I think.

Jumper only - Bonaly (her edges dun exist outside jumps)

Wrong edges: Chronic Flutzers (Cohen, Suguri, Asada, Wagner, Osmond, too many others), occasional Flutzers (Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, Nagasu), chronic lippers (Arakawa, Ando, Gold), occasional lippers (Edmunds, Pogo).

One nemesis jump: Lipnitskaia (recently 3S), Yuna Kim (3R), Yamaguchi (chronic salchow joke), Asada (3Lz never ever achieved).

Any others you are aware? Am most interested in understanding why the edge n jump issues are far more frequent in ladies than in men.

 

[Mrs. P]

Rachael Flatt and Joanne Rochette both had all the triples (minus the 3A) and it is well-documented they worked on their flutzes to get there.

 

[Scovies]

So Youn Park has all of her triples. I don't think I've ever seen her get an edge call on a lutz or a flip.

 

[pohatta]

When she lands them, Mae Berenice Meite rarely gets deductions for any of her triples. The same goes for Kiira Korpi (when she doesn't zayak). Meite is working on a triple axel too.

 

[Ophelia]

So Youn Park has all of her triples. I don't think I've ever seen her get an edge call on a lutz or a flip.

This.

 

[Skater Boy]

What about Joannie Rochette she had the most solid jumps with all of them at the end of her competitive days.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Edmunds seems to have just had lip problems as of late (and a ! at that), otherwise I'd add her.

And yes, Park and Meite are pretty solid across all their triples.

Technically, Meagan Duhamel has done all 5 triples at some point, and usually without edge calls. Obviously her and Radford do SBS 3S and 3Z (and have done SBS 3F), and she did SBS 3T with Buntin, if I recall. And at Four Continents 2006 she did a 3L.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh, and Courtney Hicks too. http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2014/gpfra2014_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpcan2014/gpcan2014_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

 

[desertskates]

I think Alissa Czisny didn't do a 3 salchow.

 

[FlattFan]

Miki fixed her lip. The last 2 years she never had any problem with edge call whenever she puts it in.

 

[TheCzar]

Asada has a near-complete set, as her Lz obviously has an edge problem. But she has everything else. Her toe can get UR'd sometimes but in the 13-14 season it was pretty steady later on. Surprisingly enough, her 3S I think is her nemesis. She can get away with her Lutz but her Salchow was gone from her repertoire for years. If she's off she'll often double it, but that one is always rotated even if she hates it.

Kim is the same- she occasionally lipped IIRC, hence why she switched to her lutz for the combo so practically the same issue as Asada's lutz- but Kim has managed to correct it, if not at least do it on a flat edge. Unfortunate about her loop though, it was small but aesthetically pleasing.

Nemesis jump: Sotnikova's flip (couldn't land it for two seasons I believe) still pops it every now and again, these days Gracie Gold's axel,

 

[Sandpiper]

Pretty good summary from the OP. Interesting that Butyrskaya and Kostner had the full set, but were probably the most inconsistent top skaters of their era.

Michelle's 3Lo looked pretty good in her earlier years, but it seemed to become a struggle later on. I think in terms of ease, height, and beauty, I think her 3F was the best. Except when the Olympics rolled around.

Since we're analyzing people from 6.0, what about Lu Chen and Oksana Baiul? Chen's 3Lz looked good to me... not sure about her flip.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't remember Irina having a flutz. At worst, it was a flat edge but I think generally the take-off was correct (particularly early in her career when she did the long entrance).

 

[Franklin99]

Even if she retires, I hope Mayo continues working on correcting her Flutz into a Lutz( think starting with a 2Lz will work better than with a 3Lz), because I can see her coaching/mentoring youngsters in the future, and that's her only triple she's still struggling to master after reworking her triples.

 

[Globetrotter]

Pretty good summary from the OP. Interesting that Butyrskaya and Kostner had the full set, but were probably the most inconsistent top skaters of their era

That is true though. Perhaps life is fair, those with full triples and basic got blessed with head case issues, nervousness with Maria, confidence issue with Caro. But perhaps that was why they were compelling to watch, the beauty and that vulnerability that makes them so human. Yeah I got to agree, looking at the youngsters, Satoko Miyahara actually has pretty good basics, good steps. Pity about the small jumps.

Just wonder also why ladies struggle so much with edge and jump issues more so than the men. Generally, the guys have the full arsenal with much less flutzing but the occasional lip.

 

[Sandpiper]

That is true though. Perhaps life is fair, those with full triples and basic got blessed with head case issues, nervousness with Maria, confidence issue with Caro. But perhaps that was why they were compelling to watch, the beauty and that vulnerability that makes them so human. Yeah I got to agree, looking at the youngsters, Satoko Miyahara actually has pretty good basics, good steps. Pity about the small jumps.

Just wonder also why ladies struggle so much with edge and jump issues more so than the men. Generally, the guys have the full arsenal with much less flutzing but the occasional lip.

There are plenty of guys with edge issues/problem jumps. Browning and Petrenko both struggled with the lutz; Goebel and Weir flutzed. Joubert, Hanyu, and... pretty much all the Russians (it's the cost of their quads ) all tend to lip. And there's more than a few that struggle with the axel (Lambiel, Chan, Brown, Shoma Uno...)

The guys are much better in terms of rotation (likely due to physiology and jumping ability--same reason why there are more quads/3As there). And from what I gather, they seemed to have improved the edge issues faster than the girls since COP. I think the girls are gradually getting better though.

 

[Skater Boy]

When she lands them, Mae Be

renice Meite rarely gets deductions for any of her triples. The same goes for Kiira Korpi (when she doesn't zayak). Meite is working on a triple axel too.

I am not sure Korpi ever landed all her triples minus the axel in competition and certainly without much consistency.

 

[AnnaTheMusician]

I am not sure Korpi ever landed all her triples minus the axel in competition and certainly without much consistency.

I tried to remember this, probably you are right. In Vancouver 2010 she landed all except 3T (she didn't have 3T-3T combination then). In COR 2012 she had them all but with weird 'e' in her 3F and rare '<' in her 3Lo.

 

[icellist]

Mirai just did it at COR with a couple < and <<'s and no edge calls. But she did it, lol.

 

[pohatta]

I tried to remember this, probably you are right. In Vancouver 2010 she landed all except 3T (she didn't have 3T-3T combination then). In COR 2012 she had them all but with weird 'e' in her 3F and rare '<' in her 3Lo.

At 16 and/or 17 she had several LPs with a full set of clean triples. There was one video from 2005 that's now gone from You Tube. But in Europeans 2006 she had them all except for a stepout in 3L.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtrjJapElSo