Conflicts among the roles of feds, managing companies, coaches, & skaters

[sorcerer]

Conflicts among the roles of feds, managing companies, coaches, & skaters

What are the roles of feds, managing companies, coaches, and the skaters themselves, such as concerning the skaters' schedules and so forth?
Are there any conflicts among them?

In Japan I personally sense the existence of some conflicts where their roles overlap and where expectations merge.
I occasionally read fans' similar comments on boards and blogs.
But the fans may not know the whole truth, and negative impressions tend to be exaggerated (like mine ).

So I'd like to know better what the reality is.

I know each body has its good intent.
In my view when good intent is not shown in good manners, awkwardness occur.

Is such air of mutual awkwardness common in any country?

It seems to me that things go smoother in US than in my country.
F'rinstance the USFSA camp... is it obligatory?
Are schedules of skaters well adjusted among the related bodies?
Who takes the initiative in adjusting?

Would someone be kind enough to tell me?

 

[Mathman]

I would say that the Russian Federation and the French Federation are the two with the reputation of letting internal politics get in the way of promoting the best interests of the skaters. For instance, the whole controversy, including lawsuits in the French courts and appeals to the IOC, over who would go to the Olympics between Dambier and Contesti, was a big black eye to the French Federation (not that they seem to care about black eyes.)

I am by no means an insider, but in the United States, my impression is that everyone is on the same team, and that team is MONEY. Yes, the summer USFSA camp is mandatory -- Johnny Weir would have liked to have skipped it last year, for instance, but he had to come regardless of the inconvenience to his schedule. But for the most part I think skaters would be glad to have more opportunities to strut their stuff.

And certainly their agents would, too. After all, the role of an agent is to secure as many money-making opportunities as possible for their clients. Sasha Cohen jumped at the chance to do the 2001 December cheesefest, against the express wishes of her coach (Tarasova), but no doubt with the encouragement and blessing of the USFSA, ABC television, Marshall's Department Stores (the sponsor), Sasha's agency and her parents.

After the 2002 Olympics Michelle Kwan intended to take it easy for the next year, skipping the Grand Prix while she pondered her future. But then Skate America rolled around, and was advertised as a big whoop featuring all the Olympic champions. But Sale and Pelletier withdrew early, Berezhnaya and Sikarulidze withdrew early, Then Sarah Hughes withdrew (also Yagudin withdrew after the short program, but of course that couldn't have been anticipated at the time.)

Anyway, here they were, the USFSA, the television networks, the local organizing committee, and the sponsors (Smart Ones Diet Foods), stuck with a bunch of Sarah Hughes posters and no show. So they put in a call to Michelle Kwan's agent, Shep Goldberg, and "made him an offer he couldn't refuse" on behalf of his client.

Michelle commented afterward that she did indeed feel like Michael Corleone in the Godfather -- "Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in!"

(As a side note, USFS needn't have panicked. Although Michelle skated a fine short and an OK long and won the competition, the media darlings turned out to be Jenny Kirk, who challenged Michelle with an excellent short porgram, and Ann Patrice McDonnough, who was second in the long and overall. Plus the evenmt featured the first ltriple Axel by a lady skater in decade -- it fact two of them (Yukari Nakano and Ludmilla Nelidina).)

Anyway, my impression is that the powers that be in the USFSA would rather work with the top skaters and their agents than against them.

 

[all that]

Unlike Mathman, I know very little. I heard Michael Slipchuk of the Canadian Federation say that one of the changes they have made recently is to "let coaches do their jobs", which suggests that perhaps they once were more interfering, but are now pulling back in that area. He also mentioned that they are looking for ways to better fund their skaters, including ones that have US coaches (I believe this came up because Patrick Chan also has a coach in Florida, but was not able to see him as much as he would have liked because of the expense of traveling?).

 

[Hsuhs]

It seems to me that things go smoother in US than in my country.
F'rinstance the USFSA camps...are they obligatory?
Are schedules of skaters well adjusted among the related bodies?
Who takes the initiative in adjusting?Would someone be kind enough to tell me?

I don't know much either, but in my country things seem to go rather smooth, since FS is almost nonexistent. We have just one international level female skater, and that's about it. How hard it is to handle just one single skater? There is no interest for FS as a sport whatsoever.

As an international fan I however have formed a very negative opinion reg USFS and JSF, but I guess it's an OT.

 

[attyfan]

... After the 2002 Olympics Michelle Kwan intended to take it easy for the next year, skipping the Grand Prix while she pondered her future. But then Skate America rolled around, and was advertised as a big whoop featuring all the Olympic champions. But Sale and Pelletier withdrew early, Berezhnaya and Sikarulidze withdrew early, Then Sarah Hughes withdrew (also Yagudin withdrew after the short program, but of course that couldn't have been anticipated at the time.)

Anyway, here they were, the USFSA, the television networks, the local organizing committee, and the sponsors (Smart Ones Diet Foods), stuck with a bunch of Sarah Hughes posters and no show. So they put in a call to Michelle Kwan's agent, Shep Goldberg, and "made him an offer he couldn't refuse" on behalf of his client.

Michelle commented afterward that she did indeed feel like Michael Corleone in the Godfather -- "Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in!"

(As a side note, USFS needn't have panicked. Although Michelle skated a fine short and an OK long and won the competition, the media darlings turned out to be Jenny Kirk, who challenged Michelle with an excellent short porgram, and Ann Patrice McDonnough, who was second in the long and overall. Plus the evenmt featured the first ltriple Axel by a lady skater in decade -- it fact two of them (Yukari Nakano and Ludmilla Nelidina).)

Anyway, my impression is that the powers that be in the USFSA would rather work with the top skaters and their agents than against them.

The USFS definitely needed to panic -- all the big names dropped out (not only the two pairs teams and Sarah Hughes, but also two ice dance teams -- B/K and L/T and Tim Goebel among the men). Unfortunately, there are not enough hard core fans to sell tickets/uphold ratings (who are interested in the newbies), so the big names help make sure that there is an audience to see it when the young'uns shine.

I agree, though, that the USFS has figured out that working with the big names is a better way of making money for all than is working against them.

 

[c_e_ahlen]

I have to say the whole controversy about the German Federation refusing to sponsor Savchenko/Szolkowy due to them being coached by Ingo Steuer... Though I did love the statement ISU made during worlds..... :agree: Way to go ISU.....

 

[Ptichka]

I have to say the whole controversy about the German Federation refusing to sponsor Savchenko/Szolkowy due to them being coached by Ingo Steuer...

I don't know what's so funny about that. In any case, it was not the decision of the German skating federation per se, it really has to do with the laws of Germany as they were written after unification. Personally, I don't find Ingo Steuer's actions to be a laughing matter.

 

[sorcerer]

Thank you Mathman, so the camp is mandatory both in US and Japan.

The following is my personal observation and would be glad if someone corrected it.

In Japan when the federation (literally or virtually) hosts or plans shows and cheese fests, it seems to me that the skaters chosen are as if basicaly mandated to participate.
(Maybe the sponsors might have a slight hidden say on whom to choose but this I don't know for sure.)

To withdraw seems very difficult IMO especially for the skaters of everyone's fav unless some clear reason is there. So the top three or four are always put pressure to participate.

Then again there are shows planned by the big managing companies and given nominal support by the JSF.
Such managing firms hide themselves, and on posters are names of sponsors, often TV media.

Dates of these events tend to be close together, but the coaches seem to have little say in the adjustment of schedules.

Above is IMO, but I think it's a common view among fans here.(Which means I'm common?)

In this context I am curious about the case of "International Counter Match" which was officially annouced as co-hosted by both USFSA and JSF, and sanctioned by (and judges being of) ISU.
How did they pick the US skaters?
It seems that senior US skaters had the option to withdraw.
Or did the USFSA intentionally choose the younger generation?
(Must have been tough with the JGP close on the calender...)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Is that Camp going to meet this summer? I thought it was a hoot last time - a big weenie roast but no commentary about its purpose and whatever was discussed. It was kind of like a meegting of the Mafia Dons.

Joe

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

Is that Camp going to meet this summer?

I hope not. Or if so, I hope it doesn't interfere with Johnny's Japan shows again. In his July 2007 journal entry, Johnny said that the 5 shows he had to miss due to the camp would have paid his rent for a year in Lyndhurst, NJ. Since he wasn't invited to join SOI, he'll no doubt need all the income he can get from the overseas shows.

 

[Audrey19]

I don't know what's so funny about that. In any case, it was not the decision of the German skating federation per se, it really has to do with the laws of Germany as they were written after unification. Personally, I don't find Ingo Steuer's actions to be a laughing matter.

I agree, it's not funny at all, the German skating federation constrained their best skaters!
But the law was not written after the unification, the law of West Germany was now used for the united country. It was the federation that refused to support Savchenko & Szolkowy, only because they wanted to stay with their coach, who does an excellent job. It's true that he worked as a spy for the East German Secret Service about 20 years ago and they didn't want him to represent the country. So they wanted to forbid him to accompaign his couple to the olympics. They came to an agreement, he was allowed to go to Torino, but the battle goes on.
I don't see why the German federation behaves so ridiculously on that matter. Why don't they just let him do his job?
(I hope that being world champions helps them being finally accepted, but I was thinking the same thing after euros 2007...hwell

 

[Mathman]

In Japan when the federation (literally or virtually) hosts or plans shows and cheese fests, it seems to me that the skaters chosen are as if basicaly mandated to participate. (Maybe the sponsors might have a slight hidden say on whom to choose but this I don't know for sure.)

In the case of the U.S. cheesefests, it was my impression that the top stars were always eager to participate and the not-quite-top skaters were thrilled to be invited. Back in the day, the top prize at a cheesefest was $50,000 -- the same amount that you could win at the World Championship (now the World Championship pays $45,000.)

Michelle Kwan, for instance, never missed a cheesefest regardless of schedule, injuries, etc. -- including the Campbell's "viewers' vote" thing in December of 2006 when she was so crippled up she could hardly walk, much less skate (she won the popularity contest anyway.)

I always suspected -- but I don't know for sure -- that Michelle had a contract on the side with the sponsors of these events, guaranteeing her an appearance fee. Also, international stars like Irina Slutskaya and Evgeni Plushenko were always pleased to be included, since there were not so many opportunitites in Russia then as there are now.

Anyway, I always felt like the sponsors, the USFSA and the skaters were all on the same page, without much conflict and coercion. I do think that the sponsors had a say in the selection of athletes, but it was more like, the USFSA sold the package to the sponsors, saying, these are the skaters the American public wants to see.

In this context I am curious about the case of "International Counter Match" which was officially annouced as co-hosted by both USFSA and JSF, and sanctioned by (and judges being of) ISU.

How did they pick the US skaters?

It seems that senior US skaters had the option to withdraw.

Or did the USFSA intentionally choose the younger generation? (Must have been tough with the JGP close on the calender...)

The 2007 Countermatch was also kind of close to Skate America, which might have been why Kimmie Meissner and Evan Lysacek did not participate.

I don't have any inside information, but usually when opportunities like this come along USFS just goes down the list of the top skaters, offering first rights to the U.S. Champions, etc. For instance, in the Campbell's Cup team challenge the year before, the U.S. sent Weir, Lysacek, Cohen, Meissner and Belbin/Agosto.

Japan entered, on the ladies' side, Mao Asada, Mai Asada and Miki Ando. One of the considerations was that all three of these skaters were training in the U.S. at the time, so travel to the U.S. site (Cincinnati) was not so much of a burden for them.

As for the Japan-U.S.A. Countermatch, I would guess that there was a negotiation between the two federations and the Japanese sponsors as to whom the Japanese fans might like to see. I believe there are a lot of good feelings in Japan for Mirai Nagasu (with her Japanese heritage) and also Caroline Zhang. I never heard that the skaters or their coaches did not want to go, or felt pressure to participate.

Bebe Liang (she won the ladies' free skate!) was selected over Meissner and Emily Hughes. This makes me think that Kimmie and Emily declined and Bebe was next in line. It is possible that the Japanese Federation and their partners specifically asked for Mirai.

By the way, the success of the two-country countermatch has paved the way for the new Team Challenge thing in 2009. Maybe this format will turn out to be a popular one.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Quote:
Michelle Kwan, for instance, never missed a cheesefest regardless of schedule, injuries, etc. -- including the Campbell's "viewers' vote" thing in December of 2006 when she was so crippled up she could hardly walk, much less skate (she won the popularity contest anyway.)

Wasn't that for the Rink/Athletic her family was building in California? She was under contract to Disney and I believe she got a hefty stipend from Campbells and Marchalls for their avertising the cheesefests in addition to the prize money.

She never did do the GPs - no money in it after a while and that hip was hurting back then. But the family did build the rink.

Much of the above is JMO.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Wasn't that for the Rink/Athletic her family was building in California?

What I am most curious about -- not that it is any of my business -- is the role of the East-West Bank in the financing of the rink. Plans were going along for the construction of the "Artesia Ice Palace," owned and operated by the Kwan family.

Then all of a sudden the East-West Bank stepped in with naming rights. This is the bank that Michelle is spokesperson for (it got its start in the U.S. by providing financial services to Chinese immigrant families.) So there was some kind of deal, beyond just the Kwans getting a loan to build the place.

Anyway, good for Michelle. She's living the American dream. Work hard, get rich. Now she is working on the part that goes, get an education and make something of yourself.

 

[sorcerer]

...In the case of the U.S. cheesefests, it was my impression that the top stars were always eager to participate and the not-quite-top skaters were thrilled to be invited. ...

I thank Mathman again for the information.
It seems that cooperations go quite well in US, and I envy this.

I had thought that skating federations are given authority to make the best out of skaters' potential; an authority that tends to be, though depending on the nation, inclusive of the right to some extent to have control over skaters.
And now I see that the extent of this tendency does indeed seem to vary !

I wonder why the skaters don't form a union. Amateurs can't?

 

[Ptichka]

But the law was not written after the unification, the law of West Germany was now used for the united country.

I stand corrected.

It was the federation that refused to support Savchenko & Szolkowy,

As I understand it, it was a question of federal funding. Skating federation stood to loose its federal money by allowing Steuer to represent Germany.

I don't see why the German federation behaves so ridiculously on that matter. Why don't they just let him do his job?

It's a tough call. Where do you ever draw the line? Why do we punish otherwise excellent athletes who use performance enhancing drugs? Why don't we just let them "do their job"?

I hope that being world champions helps them being finally accepted, but I was thinking the same thing after euros 2007

I don't know about acceptance, but my understanding is that the legal issue has now been settled. Steuer and Szolkowy have both been dishonorably discharged from the army, thus neither gets their governmental stipend; but other than that, I think it's full steam ahead for them.

 

[Mathman]

Steuer and Szolkowy have both been dishonorably discharged from the army...

Szolkowy, too? Now I'm curious. What did he do wrong that makes him unfit to be a soldier?

 

[Audrey19]

As I understand it, it was a question of federal funding. Skating federation stood to loose its federal money by allowing Steuer to represent Germany.

It's a tough call. Where do you ever draw the line? Why do we punish otherwise excellent athletes who use performance enhancing drugs? Why don't we just let them "do their job"?

Well, because doping has influence on the skaters ability to perfom and is an unfair behaviour, but Steuer's past has nothing to do with Aljona & Robin and his job as a coach.

I don't know about acceptance, but my understanding is that the legal issue has now been settled. Steuer and Szolkowy have both been dishonorably discharged from the army, thus neither gets their governmental stipend; but other than that, I think it's full steam ahead for them.

Okay, maybe acceptance was the wrong word. What I meant by it was actually their exclusion from the army, which I can't understand at all. There is no reason for excluding Robin, and Aljona was not allowed to enter the army, due to their relation to Steuer.
This issue has been in the German media qiute a lot in 2006 and most people couldn't see why he was not allowed to go to Torino with his couple.
IMO it's only the athletes decision who to chose as coach.

 

[Ptichka]

There is no reason for excluding Robin, and Aljona was not allowed to enter the army, due to their relation to Steuer.

OK, I agree that Robin's exclusion from the army was a bit vindictive. Basically, Robin was told he could not appear publicly with Steuer. When he ignored the ordered, he was dismissed from the army on the grounds of disobeying an order.

Alyona is a different story. Her exclusion from the army had nothing to do with Steuer, and was totally her own choice. Here is an old GS thread from 2 years ago with the info - http://goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12811.

 

[Mathman]

I am still puzzled about how figure skaters contribute to the National Defense? Do they perform benefit shows for troops stationed overseas to keep up their morale?